Bringing back the draft?

[ray_MAN]

I think that bringing back the draft is inevitable. With all the war in our time, and it getting worse, we need the soldiers. I could be affected by it. :| I am fourteen, now. In four years, I will be eighteen and old enough to vote, thus signing up for the draft. What I am trying to get across is: Will the draft come back? When?
P.S.: Sorry if there have been thousands of posts on this. I am new to these parts. :E

 

[bliink]

I would say if the draft returned to the US, it would be very slow to become a combat-draft.

Although, I'm reminded now of Australias draft laws, that say a draft is legally OK if the country comes under attack, despite it being outlawed for overseas service.
Perhaps the US has similar rules, in which case, you better watch out if they declare the next terrorist attack as an "act of war" because that would allow them to have a draft army "at home" and free up the professional soldiers for overseas

 

[The Dark Elf]

I personally think the draft is a good idea, or atleast force kids between a certain age to go into the military for a number of years. Would bring back some order and a lot of kids would learn respect for others.

Every year though most countries claim to be bringing it back, some countries already have it.

 

[Kid A]

There will be no draft in the US, at least not for a long time.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I do think some kids really need some guidance in their life (from firsthand knowledge), a draft may accomplish this. As of this point, however, the only ones calling for such action are liberals.

 

[gh0st]

I do think some kids really need some guidance in their life (from firsthand knowledge), a draft may accomplish this. As of this point, however, the only ones calling for such action are liberals.

You mean the only people saying its going to happen.

The whole "draft" issue started with a liberal senater, people have just assumed through word of mouth that its a big conservative conspiracy.

 

[Operation Ivy]

I think there will be a draft in the next couple years...being around that age i wont be shocked if it comes back.

I dont mind the fact of being in the army/marines exc, i dont mind serving my country, but i dont like the idea of being forced to fight a war i dont really agree with...mabe id get to go to Afghanistan instead where i feel like thats where we should be.

Like i said if i get drafted ill go Iraq or Afghanistan even though i dont really want to, ill serve my country like countless others

 

[seinfeldrules]

The whole "draft" issue started with a liberal senater, people have just assumed through word of mouth that its a big conservative conspiracy.

Exactly. Its always Bush this- Bush that, until people realize (aka we conservatives point it out) that it was Charlie Rangle calling for the draft.

 

[Edcrab]

Hmm, surprised to see such a level of support for it- if so many people accept that governments will tangle their countries up in unnecessary conflicts, how can anyone possibly accept the notion that youths should be forced to fight such wars? It's why I ignore the military as an employment path. A small part of me snorts unsympathetically and snarls "what do you expect" whenever someone is mourning the life of a relative, a soldier killed in a war they didn't believe in but nevertheless submitted themselves to when they chose to join the Armed Services.

Even the notion of a non-combat draft would worry me. Granted, military service would force a degree of perspective upon the usual thugs flowing from out of the county's dregs (woo, I feel like an elderly Tory), but many would fail to benefit from such a situation and may even find it detrimental.

 

[willyd]

A US draft will not happen for a long time. Its too unpopular.


Personally, I don't like the idea of a draft. Something about the government forcing you to work for them scares me. Besides, I read somewhere that the generals of the army are against it, because they say the draft makes the army less efficient.

 

[bliink]

because they say the draft makes the army less efficient.

not only that, but it weakens it.

(eg, see Rome, The Fall of... )

 

[Korgoth]

the draft can't happen, remember, Bush said there would be absolutely no draft while he was president. Thus he got re elected. If he calls up the draft now, well, then he lied. And if he lied he should be impeached just like Bill. Oh but gosh I forgot, Bill lied about who he slept with, which is obviously ten times more important than sending people to die.

 

[qckbeam]

I'd rather not place my life into the hands of a government that has a habit of wasting them.

 

[Tr0n]

I'll be damned if I get drafted because this country starts a war without giving me good enough reason.

 

[Eg.]

there. will. be. no. draft.

democrats brought it up to scare u

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

No draft.

Only proposed draft bill was proposed by a democrat/liberal, and not for needed troop numbers but they said "to evenly dispense the cost of being a soldier across all groups of people." Congress shot that down completely.

 

[el Chi]

I do think some kids really need some guidance in their life (from firsthand knowledge), a draft may accomplish this. As of this point, however, the only ones calling for such action are liberals.

Do you really think the draft would give kids guidance? Care to expand? (I know tone is a difficult thing to decipher on the internet, so that wasn't a derisive question)
Personally I don't really see how being thrust against your will into combat would give one "guidance" as such. And guidance towards what exactly? Being "good citizens"?
If I were sent to Iraq against my will (and I know all of this is purely speculative) I think I'd feel more contempt for the government than national pride.


OY! EDCRAB! You are an aging Tory-boy, my man! :cheers:

 

[Edcrab]

Calling me a Tory is like calling me a Protestant Agnostic- it's broadly true but just wrong Ultimately I'm just a hardline fascist sitting smugly among Labour's overpopulated ranks.

The usual arguement about the army itself (but not necessarily deployment in a hostile situation) is that it forces recruits to "buck up", exposing them to discipline and teaching them to respect authority. No doubt it works wonders on idiots who don't deserve the air they breath, but for the average citizen I can't see how a Deepcut scenario could possibly benefit them :hmph:

 

[el Chi]

Aw, I was kidding Eddy m'dear.
As for the army teaching people discipline... Perhaps, but not necessarily in a war combat situation.

 

[Edcrab]

Bah, stop being so agreeable. I can't argue on that point- I really don't think sending anyone to war will make them a better person. Unless they're one of those people who considers the activity glamorous, in which case they'd get a badly needed dose of reality.

 

[Scoobnfl]

I personally think the draft is a good idea, or atleast force kids between a certain age to go into the military for a number of years. Would bring back some order and a lot of kids would learn respect for others.

Every year though most countries claim to be bringing it back, some countries already have it.

I don't think compelled service worrks. I think peole that choose to be there will function better than those forced to be there, also if the war is truly unpopular with the people, enlistment and re-enlistment will go down and the ability to wage war will become exponentially increasingly difficult.

That having been said I think the requirements for citizenship should be changed to require service to your country. Not just in the armed forces. Organizations like the peace corps., teachers, firemen, police, judges, politicians, participating in volunterr groups for the homeless, disaster relief......... etc.

Citizenship as a birthrite has outlived its sensibility.

 

[Korgoth]

I agree with you scoobnfl on every point you listed above, except for the birthrite thing, only reason is, because every other country would have to adopt the same policy. Because what if someone became of age to gain citizenship lets say (assuming age because most things listed above require certain ages to participate in, of course) and they didn't join or do any of these things, what would be the consequence to them?

Deportation? Where would we deport them? Jail time? Then people forced to do these things would do piss poor jobs (much like the combat drafted)... If you could figure that one out, you may be on to something

 

[Absinthe]

A draft would really only weaken the military. All-volunteer armies generally have greater motivation and effectiveness as opposed to ones full of reluctant troops that are only waiting for their time to leave. Besides, I think there can be better alternatives when it comes to guiding the nation's youth.

As for the topic itself, I doubt a draft will take place. I don't think even Bush would risk alienating his people like that.

 

[Gray Fox]

I would support somethink like the draft, only without you having to join the militar, it would be something like boothcamp, for six month, people doing community service, really intens physical training cause a lot of people today are obese, and also it would only serve healthy food. and maybe even that they would be sent for like two weeks on aid devepoment programs to third world countries. It would be good IMO for the development of the mind and body and it would teach more diccipline.

 

[Scoobnfl]

I agree with you scoobnfl on every point you listed above, except for the birthrite thing, only reason is, because every other country would have to adopt the same policy. Because what if someone became of age to gain citizenship lets say (assuming age because most things listed above require certain ages to participate in, of course) and they didn't join or do any of these things, what would be the consequence to them?

Deportation? Where would we deport them? Jail time? Then people forced to do these things would do piss poor jobs (much like the combat drafted)... If you could figure that one out, you may be on to something

If someone chose not to enter into one of the avenues of service to gain citizenship then they would not enjoy the full benefit (rights) of citizens.

If I had my way :rolling: the only right that non-citizens would not have, would be the right to vote. I say that because if you aren't willing to contribute to the betterment and preservation of the ideals of this country, if you won't sacrifice for her then you should not be allowed to have a say in what direction she takes.

 

[polypod]

I think a draft is highly unlikely. Our forces use equipment that requires greater training then the grunts of old.. Not to mention todays youth simply don't feel the patriotism or reasoning for such a thing.
The idea that a war situation would be good for someone baffles me. All those soldiers who had to kill someone will never be the same. They are younger then me and forced to see and engage in things that i can hardly imagine.
Even the professional soldiers are probably looking forward to getting out, except for the crazy ones. Even if they enjoyed it, it's no way to treat a family.
Bottom line: They need to get remotely controlled ground vehicles in mass production and let all us gamers operate them day/night, protecting the Iraqi people on every block.

But we've made some major mistakes that make it hard for the soliders. I don't think we can overestimate the impact Abu Garab had on the anti-american sentiment. I feel sorry for the young kids who are paying for the transgressions of some sick people who, let's face it, respresent us. We are shamed by their actions..

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I say if they're going to initiate a draft, we would actually have to declare war first.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I personally think the draft is a good idea, or atleast force kids between a certain age to go into the military for a number of years. Would bring back some order and a lot of kids would learn respect for others.

This is why it may be good.

 

[Gray Fox]

This is why it may be good.

Yeah but why force em to join the army why not my idea.

 

[CAUT10N]

I'm new to this site, and respect opinions of others.

I came across this thread and thought I'd comment on two important factors.


- A draft is designed to fill and fight a large-scale convential war over long periods of time using invasion tactics that amount to "thowing bodies" at the enemy. All but two major countries (China and N. Korea) have realized that warfare has forever changed and a large, conventional force isn't required. By large, I mean 2 million or more soldiers. More people died training for D-Day, one invasion, that have died in the GWOT. That should show the differences in military operations.

- Today's military lacks the infrastructure to handle a draft-scale influx. And honestly, the recruiting standards are still as high as they were pre 9-11 (in most cases). All services have met and continue to meat recruiting goals (in terms of numbers and quality).

You'd have to get into a far-fetched nighmare scenario requiring millions of soldiers to even comprehend a draft. We don't fight like that any more.

FWIW, I've been Active Army for 17 years 8 months and have served in direct-fire and combat support roles -- along with 4 years as an instructor and 3 years as a recruiter.

Trust me, we may be a bit stressed here and there, but we have not come close to using our full manpower capabilities. Some things are tough -- just look at reserve and guard issues popping up -- but that's expected.

A draft wouldn't be seriously considered in modern times -- unless of course we reach the HL2 scenario! Heh.

 

[el Chi]

If I had my way :rolling: the only right that non-citizens would not have, would be the right to vote. I say that because if you aren't willing to contribute to the betterment and preservation of the ideals of this country, if you won't sacrifice for her then you should not be allowed to have a say in what direction she takes.

I sort of see your logic, but I simply cannot agree with you. One can contribute to the betterment of your nation through means other than military service; one can care for your nation without going to war. Questioning the government does not make you unpatriotic and thus if you don't agree with the decisions made by the powers that be, you have every right to oppose them, most importantly in the voting booth.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

]
A draft wouldn't be seriously considered in modern times -- unless of course we reach the HL2 scenario! Heh.

Hard to organize in 7 hours :[

 

[Steve]

What's the matter, dude? Afraid to bust a few heads? Don't you love America? Traitor.

 

[Cole]

Actually if things got really bad then we still wouldn't need a draft. Alot of people when we did need a draft signed up voluntarily. Why? Because in quite a few areas there are alot of patriotic americans.

Either way if we do need a draft, any president would issue one. We probably wont though.

 

[Vigilante]

Oh but gosh I forgot, Bill lied about who he slept with, which is obviously ten times more important than sending people to die.

I think it had to do more with that fact that he lied under oath. Anyway, I don't really want a draft, but I'd go if I were called to. I'd rather go to Afghanistan than Iraq, as some have said.

Plus it would get me into the best shape I've ever been in. Speak of the devil, I got a letter from a recruiter telling me that I should join the army reserve because they'd pay for my college, and that since I'm graduating this year the army should be my choice....hehehhehehe

 

[Steve]

Actually if things got really bad then we still wouldn't need a draft. Alot of people when we did need a draft signed up voluntarily. Why? Because in quite a few areas there are alot of patriotic americans.

True. If my country TRULY needed me (WWIII), I would answer the call of duty.

Either way if we do need a draft, any president would issue one. We probably wont though.

It's up to Congress, not the President, bub.

 

[GiaOmerta]

I think that bringing back the draft is inevitable. With all the war in our time, and it getting worse, we need the soldiers. I could be affected by it. I am fourteen, now. In four years, I will be eighteen and old enough to vote, thus signing up for the draft. What I am trying to get across is: Will the draft come back? When?
P.S.: Sorry if there have been thousands of posts on this. I am new to these parts.

Will the draft come back? I doubt it, but you never know. I sincerly believe that our Armed Forces have more than enough men and women to defend our country.

When? If a draft was issued I believe it would be in a time of need.

"Ask not what country can do for you friend, but what you can do for your country." - JFK

If our country needed us, I'd proudly serve, I believe any good, able citizen would.

 

[el Chi]

What's the matter, dude? Afraid to bust a few heads? Don't you love America? Traitor.

Are you serious? It is possible - despite popular belief, it seems - to be both patriotic and pissed off at the government. Thus, if you don't agree with their war, that doesn't instantly make you a traitor.
If the US was under threat of direct invasion or attack from a definite, identifiable aggressor (as France, Russia or Britain was in WW II) then you could argue that someone who didn't fight was in dereliction of duty to their country or whatever.
However the War on Terror isn't like that. Afghanistan was a complete travesty of an operation. Iraq starkly split public opinion in both the UK and the US, so if someone is opposed to that, why should they blindly follow their government if they believe the government is wrong? That's not patriotism.

 

[Maxi]

Here in the northern, cold, but this winter not so cold Finland we have a compulsory military service (non-combat, purely training) for every man. We get the call once we turn 18, and have to do the service within two years. The service lenght is between 6 and 14 months I belive (14, or 16?). Imo it's really good, those who are assholes, or who push everyone around will get some sense into their heads when in the military. And if were ever attacked, every man between 20 and dead will have a designated military role.

 

[Steve]

Are you serious? It is possible - despite popular belief, it seems - to be both patriotic and pissed off at the government. Thus, if you don't agree with their war, that doesn't instantly make you a traitor.
If the US was under threat of direct invasion or attack from a definite, identifiable aggressor (as France, Russia or Britain was in WW II) then you could argue that someone who didn't fight was in dereliction of duty to their country or whatever.
However the War on Terror isn't like that. Afghanistan was a complete travesty of an operation. Iraq starkly split public opinion in both the UK and the US, so if someone is opposed to that, why should they blindly follow their government if they believe the government is wrong? That's not patriotism.

This is what sucks about the internet...people can't tell when you're being a smartass. I was being a smartass, dude.