British troops attack children

rofl, hahaha

It's an embarrasment that they beat up children but the cameraman's comments made that video a Lawler
 
Teta_Bonita said:
Appearently they were throwing rocks.

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/4926/British_Troops_Attacking_Children

I hope they find those bastards and lock them up for a long time. This is just f*cking disgusting.

EDIT: woops, I think that "rock" might have been a grenade... :eek:
Either way it doesn't justify them beating those kids up like that. Shouldn't have they been arrested instead?
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Sorry but they deserved to have their asses kicked, thats all that happened in the video, nothing more than that.

edit: And yeah the camera guy does sound like hes beating off or something gross
 
article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,,1708161,00.html
the footage is said to show troops engaged in a running battle with youths, who are seen throwing a grenade which hits their compound.
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Ok, so it was a grenade.

But look at this:
In some of the worst footage, a prisoner is kicked in the back and the body six times by two soldiers. As he struggles on the floor, one of the soldiers grabs him again by the shoulder, kicks him twice and then begins to hit him on the legs with a baton.

According to the newspaper report, the video also shows shocking footage of a soldier drawing back the blanket over an Iraqi corpse to display it close up to the camera as if it is a trophy. Another scene is said to show an Iraqi man being grabbed by three soldiers and forced to kneel behind a wall where he is kicked hard in the chest.

The video, lasting just over three minutes, is said to show at least 42 blows rained upon the four teenagers. The cries of the prisoners can be heard clearly according to the newspaper report.
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I know they probably deserved it... but nevertheless what those soldiers did was wrong- that is not the way to punish kids, or anybody for that matter. This is completely unprofesional and criminal.
 
You throw rocks (and grenades? maybe) at trained soldiers in the middle of a warzone?! What the hell do you expect?

Given the British track record in dealing with civilians throwing shit at them, its surprising that all those kids got was a beating.

Sure, its no way to act, but throwing grenades and rocks at people is no way to behave either.

EDIT: And, of course, the cameraman is holding the camera with one hand only.
 
That was a grenade? They're lucky all they got was a beating.
 
Teta_Bonita said:
article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,,1708161,00.html
Ok, so it was a grenade.

But look at this:

I know they probably deserved it... but nevertheless what those soldiers did was wrong- that is not the way to punish kids, or anybody for that matter. This is completely unprofesional and criminal.
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No it wasn't criminal, if any of those guys end up arrested or lives/careers ruined because of the media being naive or having misdirected anger you should have to meet them and tell them that to their faces. Sometimes people DO deserve to have their asses kicked.

Hell, the soldiers were technically engaged when the grenade was thrown at them, they probably could have opened fire on them then.

You know what's sad, is that firing at them wouldn't have been as 'appaling' to people as 'beating them up.'
 
Isn't this video from like two weeks ago or something? Hello old news...

Anyway, nothing coming out of Iraq surprises me anymore.
 
That's pretty sick. The voice made me laugh though, what the hell? :p

Put yourself in that situation, though. Someone throws a grenade at you, meant to kill you. It doesn't kill you. You're angry, and so is everyone else that this person desired to kill. What do you do?

But these are protestors. Armed enemy combatants try to kill you, too, and they don't deserve to be beaten, either, right?

Honestly, I had no problem with them forcing them inside the compound. But the beatings were terrible... I thought that was pretty sick shit.
 
It's one thing to beat up people in revenge.

It's another to do the formentioned whilst blatantly glorifying it.
 
Erestheux said:
That's pretty sick. The voice made me laugh though, what the hell? :p

Put yourself in that situation, though. Someone throws a grenade at you, meant to kill you. It doesn't kill you. You're angry, and so is everyone else that this person desired to kill. What do you do?

But these are protestors. Armed enemy combatants try to kill you, too, and they don't deserve to be beaten, either, right?

Honestly, I had no problem with them forcing them inside the compound. But the beatings were terrible... I thought that was pretty sick shit.
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The rules of engagement state that when domenstrators and enemy combatants like that pose a deadly threat to you i.e. are throwing grenades and shooting, then you can retaliate with effective fire. However, whilst the kids were getting beat up, they weren't a threat to anyone, so it was an illegal action. It doesn't matter that the kids had thrown grenades at you, because you beat them up when they were unarmed and posed no threat, thats why it was wrong. This incident supposedly happened a couple of years ago though...from what i've heard. But i think the British troops need to be pulled out sooner rather than later, the problem is, is that foreign troops being there are provoking religious fanatical leaders to rally crowds against them and a lot of the Iraqi police are the ones doing the killing and the kidnapping so they can't be trusted.
 
Razor said:
The rules of engagement state that when domenstrators and enemy combatants like that pose a deadly threat to you i.e. are throwing grenades and shooting, then you can retaliate with effective fire. However, whilst the kids were getting beat up, they weren't a threat to anyone, so it was an illegal action. It doesn't matter that the kids had thrown grenades at you, because you beat them up when they were unarmed and posed no threat, thats why it was wrong.
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Agreed. Although I think opening fire on a threat is entirely justified, this sort of thing is only serving to lend more credibility to the 'insurgents' arguments.
If they were disarmed, then there was absolutely no reason to beat them. It wouldn't happen in a British police station (one would hope) and so it shouldnt happen in Iraq.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
Sorry but they deserved to have their asses kicked, thats all that happened in the video, nothing more than that.

edit: And yeah the camera guy does sound like hes beating off or something gross
Click to expand...
No child deserves that, under no circumstances.
 
guys, do any of you really think that in a warzone when an angry crowd throws a grenade at soldiers,(misses) that soldiers ( who fear their lives..) will just be gentlemen and say : "hey man no problem, you missed, its ok your a kid so, try again"...??

Ofcourse its wrong to beat them up like that, but they're lucky they werent shot... You just dont throw grenades at armed soldiers... (or face the consequences, in a normal case = shot, these were kids = beating )..

Those kids should get a good smacking by their parents, but i bet they'll just cheer them for now Iraq coalition gets another smeer...
Thats all this is, another smeer-campaign. Set kids up the frontlines until a few soldiers snap...
 
It's not just the brutality that's pretty shocking/nasty but the attitude. As someone else said, revenge beatings against protesters who are no longer a threat and might not have been the ones throwing the grenade (there was only one grenade; I see more than one Iraqi. Maybe it was them but that's a question that needs to be answered) is on thing - albeit a pretty bad one - but doing it with the crazy hate we can see here is another. I can see how it happens: imagine, you're stuck in some hot-as-hell middle-eastern shithole town with a populace who hates you, having to patrol the streets every day and then going back to your little fortress. Pretty easy to start demonising and hating your opponents, then.

But it's pretty inexcusable (although so is throwing nades at people).
And god, that camera guy was weird.
 
wtf @ the voiceover? is he getting his jollies outta of this or sumit?

but yeah this was up lastweek i remember...
 
- But it's pretty inexcusable (although so is throwing nades at people).
No it isn't. The resistance is a national liberation movement and is thus justified to use violence.
 
Sure, because violence will make everything better, heal all wounds and convince all the soldiers that they don't need to be there.
 
Beating up those kids is justified.
Posing with a dead body as if it was a trophy discusting.
 
Im sorry but your stupid if you think you can justify those actions, it took place well after the grenade.. and that sick **** behind the camera getting pleasure out of seeing it, they had no defence, it was uncalled for and immature.
 
Whoever said war was clean...
Its so easy for us civies to judge what soldiers should do in wartime.
We all know so much better right? "Soldiers must be gentlemen like in the 1700's when they were smacking each other with gloves and using muskets"

Yeah, that would still be the case, if civilians didnt actively get involved in war like we have these days..

"The best players are always standing at the sideline"
Meaning us civies all think we know better, while we're safely behind the comp..

Kid or no kid, in such a situation throwing a grenade at soldiers, they're lucky they werent shot and only got a beating....
Doesnt meen its good, or justifies violence, but its what most ppl would do in such a situation. Those kids just tried to kill you,...

Debating whether its justified for those kids to throw gnades is something else. Action->reaction..If i were their parent i sure as hell would keep them OFF the streets instead of on throwing gnades at soldiers...
 
- Kid or no kid, in such a situation throwing a grenade at soldiers, they're lucky they werent shot and only got a beating....
It would have been better for them to shoot who-ever through the grenade.
I would have no problems with them returning fire at an assialant. But once you get him in custody, making him a prisoner of war, you may not beat him.
 
What do they expect? They put soldiers in that situation, getting rocks and grenades thrown at them, getting shot at, for months on end and people are surprised? They're obviously going to take their frustration out on someone, and it just so happens that those people were a couple of kids that they caught (throwing rocks). I agree, it shouldn't have happened, but neither should have the war.
 
Solaris my point was not to justify it, only that you can expect these things in war, that if you throw grenades at armed soldiers, getting a beating meens you've gotten lucky... (any regular soldier would just shoot you)
Our first Dutch casualty was from a civilian throwing a grenade..
You think thats an exception? No, probably not...

In that case the soldiers found the kids that threw the grenade at them, and their emotions took over...
The soldiers should just get punished, but also the west shouldnt blow this out of proportion, for thats the smeer campaign im refering too..

Al Jazeera will just publish this all over the place in their smeer campaign...

War is no place for civilians, once they get involved you can expect things to get dirty.
 
Yes, these kids and everyone around them are lucky that the troops didn't open fire when the grenade was thrown. Look at Libya where 10 or more protesters were killed for setting fire to the Italian consulate and causing all sorts of unrest. People have been killed for a lot less than throwing a grenade in a war-torn country. Violence only begets violence. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. could teach the whole world a lot if only people would listen:

--As you press on for justice, be sure to move with dignity and discipline, using only the weapon of love. Let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Always avoid violence. If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in your struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos.(1956)

--A fifth point concerning nonviolent resistance is that it avoids not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. The nonviolent resister not only refuses to shoot his opponent but he also refuses to hate him. (1958)

--Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction ... The chain reaction of evil — hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars — must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. (1963)
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Solaris said:
- But it's pretty inexcusable (although so is throwing nades at people).
No it isn't. The resistance is a national liberation movement and is thus justified to use violence.
Click to expand...

No, how many times do I have to explain that black/white moralising doesn't bloody justify violence.

'Oh, it's ok you scamps, you're part of a national liberation movement, carry on!'

The soldiers acted out of line, regardless.

However, remember that it is really bloody easy to sit back from this and say 'oh, that's wrong' and ignore the fact that the soldiers are on in edge in a Warzone.
 
The rules of engagement state that when domenstrators and enemy combatants like that pose a deadly threat to you i.e. are throwing grenades and shooting, then you can retaliate with effective fire. However, whilst the kids were getting beat up, they weren't a threat to anyone, so it was an illegal action. It doesn't matter that the kids had thrown grenades at you, because you beat them up when they were unarmed and posed no threat, thats why it was wrong.
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Nothing more needs to be said really.
 
War = crazy
Crazy = not thinking.
Not thinking = What Rules?
 
Comrade.

Both sides are soldiers.

If a British soldier saw one of them with a grenade and shot him, I would have no issue. It's a shame that someone died resisting the imperialist machine. But then again it would have been a shame for a young soldier to die after being orderd by the machine to fight.

But he didn't shoot him, they got 2 people, and beat the s**t out of them.
We always hear about how good the British Army are at dealing with situations like this, from the experience they got in Northean Irealand (And what a great job they did there :/ ) but in reality they haven't learnt new tactics of co-operation and winning the minds. They've just learnt directed brutality. I have no doubt what we just saw is common place. I'm not blaming the soldiers, although they should be punished, it's the whole f****g army thats brutal, from the recuit training to the politicians, the same as in America. The western forces want control of Iraq badly, and employ brutal oppresionist tactics to ensure their control of the region.
 
You cant take these incidents by a group of individuals and generalise the whole british army.
You have to consider (other than this was a horrifying incident):
-the setting....
Im sure it happens more than once, but its so easy to see this video, and take it out of proportion. We should learn -> the setting + prehistory of this situation.
 
You need a bit of rough treatment sometimes to get someone to cooperate but they took it too far, they already had them well restrained and under control before they started kicking them.

I don't think it was a "disgusting scene of torture" or anything like that, they should just act like proffessional soldiers and not like thugs.
 
ARE they potestors?
The video doesn't really give any reliable context for whats going on. Who knows if this was even the first time they tried to kill some of those soldiers. (And maybe they weren't always unsuccessful?)

You need some reliable context to really begin debating it. That and a not totally creepy commentator.
 
Solaris said:
Comrade.

Both sides are soldiers.
Click to expand...


If their soldiers then they got off real easy, you should be happy they weren't killed so they can go off and chuck nades at more soldiers.
 
Direwolf said:
ARE they potestors?
The video doesn't really give any reliable context for whats going on. Who knows if this was even the first time they tried to kill some of those soldiers. (And maybe they weren't always unsuccessful?)

You need some reliable context to really begin debating it. That and a not totally creepy commentator.
Click to expand...
That was somewhat my point as well.
 
Solaris said:
No child deserves that, under no circumstances.
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Children who just tried to kill people do deserve to have the shit kicked out of them.

short recoil said:
You need a bit of rough treatment sometimes to get someone to cooperate but they took it too far, they already had them well restrained and under control before they started kicking them.

I don't think it was a "disgusting scene of torture" or anything like that, they should just act like proffessional soldiers and not like thugs.
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I agree with this, it's just really, really pissing me off that people are pretty much calling these young soldiers 'disgusting abusers' and equating it somehow with torture or something insanely horrible that happened. They did deserve to be a little roughed up being brought in, and police do it here. You can guarantee if you resisted arrest or assaulted a cop theyd bash your face when they have you down, rightfully so- not to mention throwing a grenade at one. In reality, it shouldn't have happened, but you know what it would merit at the MOST, some non judicial punishment from a superior officer, nothing that's going to ruin or tarnish these guys names forever.
 
Solaris said:
Comrade.

Both sides are soldiers.

If a British soldier saw one of them with a grenade and shot him, I would have no issue. It's a shame that someone died resisting the imperialist machine. But then again it would have been a shame for a young soldier to die after being orderd by the machine to fight.

But he didn't shoot him, they got 2 people, and beat the s**t out of them.
We always hear about how good the British Army are at dealing with situations like this, from the experience they got in Northean Irealand (And what a great job they did there :/ ) but in reality they haven't learnt new tactics of co-operation and winning the minds. They've just learnt directed brutality. I have no doubt what we just saw is common place. I'm not blaming the soldiers, although they should be punished, it's the whole f****g army thats brutal, from the recuit training to the politicians, the same as in America. The western forces want control of Iraq badly, and employ brutal oppresionist tactics to ensure their control of the region.
Click to expand...



i belive you don't know what brutality is? todays war are well covered with media so the soldiers ar at least ordered to act rasonable! look at previous wars or wars from some other less developed nations...they masacer whole villages because they are bored...men, women, children, babies, animals...using melee weapons...to save bullets!!! i'm not justyfing this...but that's the least they got (those kids of course)!
i once saw a video where a crowd armed with swords, spears, machetes...you name it...attack a single man litteraly stabing him, cutting his flesh off, his skin from his head...but he still lived running away from the crowd with his flesh hanging from his body...christ!! it was somwhere in southeast asia
that's pure brutality!


p.s. this is why i don't want to deal with politics anymore...it just makes everything worse in situations like this...it was the religious leaders that made those kids go out and fight...if they would be atheist they'd just stay home safe and sound...
...i remember a story i read about when us troops defeated japan in ww2..all the civilians were ordered to give up arms...due to the japanese samurai history (warrior code)...they know that they were defeated so they peacfully gave up weapons (those who didn't aree commited suicide)...now look at japan...on of the most advanced nations in the world...

when will people people learn that they are defeated....if there wouldn't be any media i bet the US would just raze iraq, iran, north korea to the ground...they have the means...so why counter to a force you have aproximatly (sp.?) 0.000000001 chanse of winning!? waste of lives!
unless they do something to your family or relatives...ok, thats personal...but why care if they want to take your oil...let them...i'd even help, and maybe try to earn some money by doing it! but no..they want a religious dictatorship so thy can have women covered up like my monitor when i'm away! why would somebody die for that??? **** religion, politics, philosophy... if i were president i'd ban them...they just lead to more misunderstanding and hate


ehh...i'm tired
 
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