Brother in arme, just a mediocre game at time of shifting to the next generation

[Newbie's Journey]

I would love to play new 2d games! The problem is that they really don't make them anymore. I consider the pinnicle of the 2d genre to be Castlevania: SOTN, which is also my favorite game of all time.

why don't they make it anymore, if they can still sell million copies ?? cuz 2D games simply don't have the market that they used to have anymore. Face the fact, dude.

 

[Direwolf]

in addition, except having squad control, the gameplay is old too.

That IS the gameplay. You could shoot something yourself too, but thats hardly changed in any next gen game.
You have to face the fact that not everyone wants every game to be a technological blockbuster. What we want is for them to be fun.
TECHNOLOGY != FUN

 

[Newbie's Journey]

Because they lack so many things 3d games do, gameplay wise.

see, finally u come to agree with me, what u just mentionned there demonstrate technology leads gameplay.

 

[Direwolf]

see, finally u come to agree with me, what u just mentionned there demonstrate technology leads gameplay.

Its the opposite way around. Gameplay finds ways to exploite new technology. We've seen time and again the great technology doesn't mean squat without something to back it up. Gameplay has zero to do with poly counts, per pixel lighting models, and displacement maps.

 

[brink's]

they didn't sell 9 million becuz of half life itself, go to visiter the steam website u will know that the half life community is in fact a cs community.

Hl sold 4 million copies before cs was even released.
I know a large part of halflife is the cs community(I play cs all the time) but that doesn't mean HL wasn't a great/revolutionary game.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

That IS the gameplay. You could shoot something yourself too, but thats hardly changed in any next gen game.

in bf, u can suicide bomb people or vechicles with air-planes
in ut2004, u can crash on people with vechicles
in hl2, it seems u can hit people with objects in the world, like making a car fall on an ennemy's head(i saw that in a video)....

there are many many other thing we have seen yet, only the engine's capability will lead us to discover them and enjoy them.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

Its the opposite way around. Gameplay finds ways to exploite new technology. We've seen time and again the great technology doesn't mean squat without something to back it up. Gameplay has zero to do with poly counts, per pixel lighting models, and displacement maps.

without poly counts, per pixel lighting model... u simply won't have that dimension of gameplay. don't you see the gameplay itself is also upgrading ??

 

[Foxtrot]

see, finally u come to agree with me, what u just mentionned there demonstrate technology leads gameplay.

2d to 3d is different though, and the reason BIA will be so good is because who cares if it is missing some shadow effect that you will never notice or complete interactive enviorments, it will be the new features it adds to the genre that make it stand out and make it a great game. Hell look at Call of Duty, what did that add? NOTHING!!!!!!!! But it still did really well and was lots of fun, why? Because it tried somthing new, although I thought it could have been A LOT better it was still tons better than all the MOH games.

 

[brink's]

HL used the original Quake engine

 

[Newbie's Journey]

Hl sold 4 million copies before cs was even released.
I know a large part of halflife is the cs community(I play cs all the time) but that doesn't mean HL wasn't a great/revolutionary game.

and why was it a revolutionary game AT ITS TIME ?? cuz there are technologies to support it.

 

[Direwolf]

in bf, u can suicide bomb people or vechicles with air-planes
in ut2004, u can crash on people with vechicles
in hl2, it seems u can hit people with objects in the world, like making a car fall on an ennemy's head(i saw that in a video)....

there are many many other thing we have seen yet, only the engine's capability will lead us to discover them and enjoy them.

As much of a BF42 fan I am, you can't call it new anymore. And UT2004 sure as heck doesn't lay a finger graphics-wise upon HL2 or DOOM3. Add on top of that that they're not even in the same genre (both are online shooters), and that comparison is ridculous. If you're criticism is that the game isn't vehicle-centric, then that has nothing to do with tech.
And HL was FUN. Thats why it sold.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

HL used the original Quake engine

wasn't it modified heavily or at least a bit

 

[ShadowFox]

in ut2004, u can crash on people with vechicles

And yet just recently Deathmatch surpassed Onslaught as the most popular game mode. I wonder why...

 

[Foxtrot]

And yet just recently Deathmatch surpassed Onslaught as the most popular game mode. I wonder why...

Really? Because I hate both of them. I bought the game for the mods though, and I am having tons of fun with them.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

As much of a BF42 fan I am, you can't call it new anymore. And UT2004 sure as heck doesn't lay a finger graphics-wise upon HL2 or DOOM3. Add on top of that that they're not even in the same genre (both are online shooters), and that comparison is ridculous. If you're criticism is that the game isn't vehicle-centric, then that has nothing to do with tech.
And HL was FUN. Thats why it sold.

without vehicle physics in those engine, would they be able to offer that level of fun ant that level of gameplay ?? you like bf right ?? i like it so much, althought the shooting sucks a little, but driving vehicles is lot of fun, much better than cs's vehicles. so why don't u stop playing bf instead of playing cs and drive cars on some customized maps ???

 

[brink's]

yes it was modified heavily but it was still almost 4 years old and had properties that made it outdated.

 

[ShadowFox]

without vehicle physics in those engine, would they be able to offer that level of fun ant that level of gameplay ?? you like bf right ?? i like it so much, althought the shooting sucks a little, but driving vehicles is lot of fun, much better than cs's vehicles. so why don't u play bf instead of playing cs and drive cars on some customized maps ???

If your going to compare BF to anything, it should be Day of Defeat. And I know many people who prefer DOD because it offers a different type of gameplay.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

If your going to compare BF to anything, it should be Day of Defeat. And I know many people who prefer DOD because it offers a different type of gameplay.

i also know many people who prefer dod cuz they don't have the computer to run bf well

 

[Direwolf]

without vehicle physics in those engine, would they be able to offer that level of fun ant that level of gameplay ?? you like bf right ?? i like it so much, althought the shooting sucks a little, but driving vehicles is lot of fun, much better than cs's vehicles. so why don't u stop playing bf instead of playing cs and drive cars on some customized maps ???

I like BF because of its huge scale and online gameplay. I didn't exactly buy it for the single player. I also didn't buy it for the vehicle physics. But I'm interested in BIA for the single player, and I don't care if it even has drivable vehicles.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

I like BF because of its huge scale and online gameplay. I didn't exactly buy it for the single player. I also didn't buy it for the vehicle physics. But I'm interested in BIA for the single player, and I don't care if it even has drivable vehicles.

without vehicle physics, will bf still be the same bf, and still be fun as what it's ?? do u think hl is able to feature huge scale like that ? see, whatever u mention lead to one answer: technology .

 

[Newbie's Journey]

alright guys, it's been a great dicussion, i think it's about time to end the dicussion cuz i need to go to bed soon. well just make up ur own mind.

 

[Direwolf]

I don't think you're even listening anymore. Battlefield has nothing to do with BIA. ZERO. Its an online vehicle-centric game. BIA is an offline squad-based one. They share a basic setting and a perspective, and thats it.
Good games are good games no matter what. Good games can still be 2D. They are fun no matter what their lighting or or physics are like. They're fun whether they have vehicles or not. Technology can certainly help and be used TOWARDS gameplay, but certainly doesn't make it (like huge levels). Fun is fun regardless of your video card, processor, and other hardware.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

i wish everyone enjoy what they are playing and doing, and enjoy what's coming.

 

[Direwolf]

You know, its really hard to argue with someone when they're being nice.

 

[ShadowFox]

Before I go.. I'll use one more example.

Total Annihilation was arguably the much more technologically advanced game than StarCraft. Both games were popular, but SC was MUCH more popular.

I am a diehard TA fan myself.. but it just goes to show technology isn't everything.

 

[KiNG]

your a moron is u believe an engines tech makes the game.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

I don't think you're even listening anymore. Battlefield has nothing to do with BIA. ZERO. Its an online vehicle-centric game. BIA is an offline squad-based one. They share a basic setting and a perspective, and thats it.
Good games are good games no matter what. Good games can still be 2D. They are fun no matter what their lighting or or physics are like. They're fun whether they have vehicles or not. Technology can certainly help and be used TOWARDS gameplay, but certainly doesn't make it (like huge levels). Fun is fun regardless of your video card, processor, and other hardware.

yes i'm still listenning, and i still want to argue with you until hl2 comes out, unfortunatly i should end this dicussion cuz i have said so. well at the end, let me just ask you a simple question, do you think something that is fun right now will last forever and remain fun forever ??

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

TA was an awesomely fun game. Never disrespect its genious.

 

[ShadowFox]

yes i'm still listenning, and i still want to argue with you until hl2 comes out, unfortunatly i should end this dicussion cuz i have said so. well at the end, let me just ask you a simple question, do you think something that is fun right now will last forever and remain fun forever ??

If it is good enough, then yes. If not, then why do people still play Chess?

 

[Direwolf]

yes i'm still listenning, and i still want to argue with you until hl2 comes out, unfortunatly i should end this dicussion cuz i have said so. well at the end, let me just ask you a simple question, do you think something that is fun right now will last forever and remain fun forever ??

Thats the difference between a good game and a great game. HL is still fun, and thats why its so incredible. Simcity is in the same boat. Its 2D and still a blast. Jet Moto was only good, and now plays slightly better than a bargain bin game you find at Toy Works.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

your a moron is u believe an engines tech makes the game.

fortunatly, u ain't here before we end the dicussion. ok few questions for u and let's end, without engines, how can u make a game ? u just can't accepte that gameplay can't surpasse the technological limitation. if don't agree with me, prove me wrong by making 2d games and sell million of copies now.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

If it is good enough, then yes. If not, then why do people still play Chess?

cuz they don't have computers and cs

 

[Neutrino]

If it is good enough, then yes. If not, then why do people still play Chess?

Because of the great graphics of course.

 

[ShadowFox]

fortunatly, u ain't here before we end the dicussion. ok few questions for u and let's end, without engines, how can u make a game ? u just can't accepte that gameplay can't surpasse the technological limitation. if don't agree with me, prove me wrong by making 2d games and sell million of copies.

The Sims was a combination isometric 2d with 3d character overlay and it sold many millions.

 

[Direwolf]

Hehe...nerds are known for playing Chess, just as much as they're known for playing games. Most of the heavy computer users I know still enjoy Chess.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

The Sims was a combination isometric 2d with 3d character overlay and it sold many millions.

use the thing that makes mario 1 on fc to make a "fun" 2d game and being able to sell million of copies nowadays , then i will agree that i'm wrong of having said that gameplay can't surpass technological limitation.

 

[Newbie's Journey]

let's just say the engine is the world and gameplays are the possiblities under the world, maybe there are infinity of possibilites, but can possibilities surpass the world...ok let's end here, thanks many for not having flamed me to death, thx for having patience to read my crappy english, thx god that there is only one dude who called me moron in this entire thread...good night.