Bullet-Time in Real Time Multiplayer Games Possible (come on Max Payne 3)

FEAR and a mod for half-life (and possibley hl2 ) The Specialists, can do bullet-time in multiplayer perfectly.
 
xlucidx said:
FEAR and a mod for half-life (and possibley hl2 ) The Specialists, can do bullet-time in multiplayer perfectly.
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No this is different. IN those games it slows down everyone. This would just slow down the client but let everyone else seem as though they were going normal.
 
xlucidx said:
FEAR and a mod for half-life (and possibley hl2 ) The Specialists, can do bullet-time in multiplayer perfectly.
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I don't think you quite understand what New Scientist is reporting. Not a bullet time that slows other players down. A bullet time that slows things down for you, and you alone, while everyone else is at normal-time.

-Angry Lawyer
 
How the hell would that work for other people? Wouldn't they see you as zipping around the levels at super speed?
 
They should make this into a cheat to finish off the decaying remnants of public game servers.

Kidding - this seems like a fantastic addition to gameplay, but it seems limited. To get this effect, you shouldn't make it appear like things are slowing down, you need to be moving (and your computer one step ahead) of the others. You can speed your system up, slow their systems down, or do a combination (otherwise it's just show). I think functioning bullet time in multiplayer will be tougher than "slow motion with dynamic camera movement". It sounds like your own game will slow down, while the others remain at normal speed. No problem - this seems totally feasible. I wonder how they'll compensate for when you come out of bullet time. Do they speed you up until you are in sync or just pop you back in with 5 (probably critical to your game) seconds gone. I'm not saying that it won't work, but I'm still unsure how it will.
 
Ok, I don't think people understand this article. Time moves the same for all the players (ie: frame rate is the same for all the players). Bullet-time is introduced by somehow tweaking the perception of one player relative to the other players.
 
Yay. Just what we need. This idea is going straight out the window. It is very hard to get working and it wouldn't look as cool as you might think. You're guy is slowed down so much, that the other player who is not slowed down will run light speed around your guy 20 times and shoot you 200 times before you even get a shot off.
 
Yea, every game so far, when it wants to go into slow-motion, it slows down every player in the world, no matter where they are.

Now with this, all players will be moving normal, and never know if a player went into slow-motion or not (well except for the fact that he could probably aim better hehe :) )

As cool as it is hearing about this, I would much rather experience it for myself :D I wish they would open-source their idea and make just a simple deathmatch game (hell, I say just make the players blocks and such, no need to get fancy)

*edit* dream431ca: Make judgements after you've experienced it mmkay?
 
I don't quite udnerstand how this works. Does the player under the effects of bullet time appear to be going slow to others? Or fast? Or normal? :|
 
dream431ca said:
Yay. Just what we need. This idea is going straight out the window. It is very hard to get working and it wouldn't look as cool as you might think. You're guy is slowed down so much, that the other player who is not slowed down will run light speed around your guy 20 times and shoot you 200 times before you even get a shot off.
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Can you PLEASE read the article before you embarass yourself?

The whole POINT of bullet time is that EVERYTHING slows down for the affected player, and that EVERY othe player sees the events at normal speed. It obviously wouldn't have been a scientific discovery, nor would it have been bullet time if you were the only one moving slowly. They are not really slowing anything down, they are just moving objects to give the illusion time is slowling down, hence, giving the player that extra time to react.

PEOPLE PLEASE, IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND, YOU'LL LOOK MUCH LESS STUPID ASKING THAN ASSUMING.
 
Pesmerga said:
I don't quite udnerstand how this works. Does the player under the effects of bullet time appear to be going slow to others? Or fast? Or normal? :|
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Normal. But that player sees everyone else going slow. It doesn't make sense, but apparently it's a client side illusion, and we should trust the PHDs who have been working on this.
 
TheSomeone said:
Can you PLEASE read the article before you embarass yourself?

The whole POINT of bullet time is that EVERYTHING slows down for the affected player, and that EVERY othe player sees the events at normal speed. It obviously wouldn't have been a scientific discovery, nor would it have been bullet time if you were the only one moving slowly. They are not really slowing anything down, they are just moving objects to give the illusion time is slowling down, hence, giving the player that extra time to react.

PEOPLE PLEASE, IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND, YOU'LL LOOK MUCH LESS STUPID ASKING THAN ASSUMING.
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dream431ca is right, actually. The client would be percieved to be moving much faster as if he had some speed hacks. The other players wouldn't be slowing down on their side though.

TheSomeone said:
Normal. But that player sees everyone else going slow. It doesn't make sense, but apparently it's a client side illusion, and we should trust the PHDs who have been working on this.
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It doesn't actually say... but like I said, if it's a Matrix esque bullet-time, then the client using it would appear to be moving faster to everyone else.

Hence Trinity asking Neo how he moved so fast on the rooftop.
 
Oh my god, my brain is going to explode. That is so weird, the slower you seem to go to yourself, the faster everyone else sees you go. WEIRD.
 
StardogChampion said:
dream431ca is right, actually. The client would be percieved to be moving much faster as if he had some speed hacks. The other players wouldn't be slowing down on their side though.
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You didn't understand either.

That's not what the article says. Read it carefully, there is no real change in speed, ever. All it does is it slows EVERYTHING down for the affected player so it gives him more time to think. When playing with bots on unreal and setting the time settings to low, you will still be walking at the same speed ratio, and the bots will still shoot at you like you're walking at normal speed, but since you have all that extra reaction time, if you record the game and put it back in normal speed, it'll look like you have an aimbot.


It doesn't actually say... but like I said, if it's a Matrix esque bullet-time, then the client using it would appear to be moving faster to everyone else.
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That, again, is implication. As I've said, and I'm pulling this from source, the article uses perception filters, not speed modifiers. I'm guessing the bullet time will be video-game bullet time since that is what they are talking about. In max payne, your character is slowed down as well so that he appears to be going normal speed to the bots.

ALL IN ALL: If it was as simple as making one user go faster then slowing down his game speed, what would perception filters be for? Anyone could have come up with that (it's called other players with a high ping and without a lag compensator), and you guys just did. It takes professional scientists to create a balanced bullet time where time slows down only for that person without accelerating him.
 
*nevermind*

I get it.

TheSomeone cleared it up for me. Sounds very interesting.
 
And about the motion filters, they don't say what they are but I think I can guess.

They make objects farther on the client side, but also larger.

Take a ball with a 1 yard diamater. Place it a few meters in front of you. When you move side to side, you can perceive it as you staying still and the ball moving side to side fairly fast. Take that ball a few more meters away, and now when you move side to side, the ball will seem to move slower in your field of vision (try it with an object). But imagine making that ball bigger so that when you overlap the 1 yard ball close to you, and the bigger ball far away from you, they will overlap in size, yet the farther one will still move slower when you move side to side. In real life, you can tell that it's farther, on a screen however, you cannot if everything is modified in proportion.

Again, this is all speculation, and I'm only 15 :P.

You have to agree it has some sense :D.
 
Some sketches to show how this would work.
 

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Actually the way it does it is by rendering the clients frames with slightly out of date information. It's quite interesting. It acts like Dead-Reckoning in reverse, as oppose to predicting the position of another player or an entity it renders what the other player has already done.
 
ok , this is so weird i cant get this into my mind ...
 
Alright, I'm just too freaking stupid to understand how it would work :P Oh well, maybe I'll figure it out with Max Payme 3 or something :P
 
mortiz said:
Actually the way it does it is by rendering the clients frames with slightly out of date information. It's quite interesting. It acts like Dead-Reckoning in reverse, as oppose to predicting the position of another player or an entity it renders what the other player has already done.
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What you are saying is exactly what we can't do.

What if he does 50 damage to a player with 40 health running towards a health pack? If it renders what he has already done (running towards the healthpack) rather than what he is doing (actually reaching the healthpack and getting the health) it makes no sense because one client detects that the players hould be dead while the other detects he just got a bunch of health before getting shot. The player would always be a second late and that's exactly what we're trying to avoid, lot's of things can happen to a target within the few seconds that hte player is only seeing what he has already done.
 
Read it carefully, there is no real change in speed, ever. All it does is it slows EVERYTHING down for the affected player so it gives him more time to think. When playing with bots on unreal and setting the time settings to low, you will still be walking at the same speed ratio, and the bots will still shoot at you like you're walking at normal speed, but since you have all that extra reaction time, if you record the game and put it back in normal speed, it'll look like you have an aimbot.
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Please read this answer carefully. You say there is no change in speed, but you also say that it slows everything down for the Affected player.

What about the other players?? will it slow down for them too at the same time, because that is the only way you can do it. You cannot slow everything down for the player and still expect to the other players to see you in normal time. For that to happen, two things have to happen:

1. The player must still move as fast as anyone else even though everything else is slowed down. (Which would look utterly stupid.)

2. The other players have to be affected as well.

Even though this is a game, it still has to follow the laws of physics. That is Relativity..this would be a perfect physics question.
 
I can only understand how this will work if it happens like this -

A player goes into "bullet time", which makes everything slower around him, but he can move at normal speed - giving him time to shoot more people blah blah.

All the other players are unaffected by this and play normally, but if they see the player in bullet time, he will appear to be zooming around really fast.

Any other way and I don't get it.
 
JiMmEh said:
I can only understand how this will work if it happens like this -

A player goes into "bullet time", which makes everything slower around him, but he can move at normal speed - giving him time to shoot more people blah blah.

All the other players are unaffected by this and play normally, but if they see the player in bullet time, he will appear to be zooming around really fast.

Any other way and I don't get it.
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They ONLY way this could work is this example:

I'm Playing Max Payne 3, I put on bullet time, everything around me slows down but I AND The other players are moving at normal speed. The only thing that slows down are the bullets and everything else in the stage except for the players. Other than that, it is not possible. So it's not really possible to have bullet time in Multiplayer because none of the other players would slow down. If you did have real bullet time in a game from the other player's perspective you would either have to be moving extremely fast (which is very hard to do) or you would have to be moving very slow. It is simply not possible unless you water it down so much that it doesn't become bullet time anymore.
 
The effect combines slow motion with dynamic camera movement to seemingly allow a character's environment to be slowed down, giving the player more time to respond to events

Smed is exploiting software called a local perception filter
Smed and colleagues used these filters to introduce delays of up to a few seconds, allowing one player to slow down their game while their opponents play on
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Think it as lag. You could be across the map, but the player sees you right infront of him. He shoots you, you get hurt, but your across the map.
Hmmm.... its hard to explain.

Ok... you are running towards a Healthpack with a total of 1 hp. A player comes from around the corner and starts to unload clips onto you.

You go into bullettime, which will turn bullets into an entity, and everything slows down. Though, the player sees you moving normally.

It looks like he shot you, but you are still moving.
Your death will be delayed by a few seconds, allowing you to pick up the healthpack and survive.

To me, it seems that you will kind of enter your own world, where the other player's actions are measured, copied into your world, but modified. And, in the normal world, the player has it seem like it is normal.

I could see performance problems if this is so.
 
Fliko said:
Think it as lag. You could be across the map, but the player sees you right infront of him. He shoots you, you get hurt, but your across the map.
Hmmm.... its hard to explain.

Ok... you are running towards a Healthpack with a total of 1 hp. A player comes from around the corner and starts to unload clips onto you.

You go into bullettime, which will turn bullets into an entity, and everything slows down. Though, the player sees you moving normally.

It looks like he shot you, but you are still moving.
Your death will be delayed by a few seconds, allowing you to pick up the healthpack and survive.

To me, it seems that you will kind of enter your own world, where the other player's actions are measured, copied into your world, but modified. And, in the normal world, the player has it seem like it is normal.

I could see performance problems if this is so.
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....what ?
 
TheSomeone said:
What you are saying is exactly what we can't do.

What if he does 50 damage to a player with 40 health running towards a health pack? If it renders what he has already done (running towards the healthpack) rather than what he is doing (actually reaching the healthpack and getting the health) it makes no sense because one client detects that the players hould be dead while the other detects he just got a bunch of health before getting shot. The player would always be a second late and that's exactly what we're trying to avoid, lot's of things can happen to a target within the few seconds that hte player is only seeing what he has already done.
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Obviously you have to do a lot more. Since I can't be bothered spoon feeding you the information why don't you try reading about it yourself?
 
I'll have to see how this works to buy it hook, line, and sinker. The more I think about this, the more it seems like it won't work. If it's a client-side visual affect, that's fine, but game play won't change, and this will just be another graphic feature. Even if you slowed down the other players' systems to facilitate your own bullet time, they'd still see you, you'd just be moving really fast. If you didn't slow their systems down, you'd be moving really fast on your own (like the sprint feature now, but faster I imagine).
 
jezus! it is not THAT hard to understand if you read the bloody articly. if you read it, and still don't understand, please contact your local hospital to check, double and thripple check your mental functions because obviously there is something wrong.

and yes I cant spell for shit and even I understand the tech, how embarasing for you huh!

have a nice day all :)
 
mortiz said:
try reading
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Wow, thats actually a really interesting read
It explains it pretty well
Seems like there are a lot of bugs to work out though..
The first mp game that uses this is going to have endless exploits
 
That just sounds silly.

Ok the player has a higher rate of perception ie things appear slower to him/her. That would have to include other players, but if the other players can move at normal speed. They are going to look like they are laggin across the map (ie affected players sees them at A, but they are at B). So it wouldn't work against players and certaintly not objects. Ie a door may appear closed but could certaintly be open if the player saw certain things slower.
 
That just sounds silly.

Ok the player has a higher rate of perception ie things appear slower to him/her. That would have to include other players, but if the other players can move at normal speed. They are going to look like they are laggin across the map (ie affected players sees them at A, but they are at B). So it wouldn't work against players and certaintly not objects. Ie a door may appear closed but could certaintly be open if the player saw certain things slower.
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It sounds silly, but it is and has been accomplished. So that it's done smoothly else it's a worthless annoucment.
 
I think I understand

is al about optical illusions to give the slow mo effect?
 
Still, this is cool.
Err.... Yeah. I didn't make a lot of sense.
It is fairly simple to understand if you read.
 
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