Bump-mapping really helps !

[BWMASTER]

I just noticed another small detail in the bugbait movie that some of you might of missed and it involves bumpmapping.

In the attached screenshot you can really see the power of bumpmapping on the wall. It really adds alot of detail and makes it seem more life-like.

HL2 CAN'T COME SOON ENUFF!!

 

[LoneDeranger]

Did someone say Stalker? Yeah, we got their fancy bumpmapping right here - in HL2

 

[SilentKilla]

nice

 

[ShinRa]

Damn, makes me wonder something. Why do the weapon models still suck? They still look like p_models and w_models. The texturing and modeling sucks ass. However the enviornment is gorgeous. Someone explain that to me.

 

[=Coy0te=]

Wow nice find!

 

[Tequila]

Guinny, I'd get those cateracts looked at.

The weapon models are fantastic.

 

[zEphyr]

Originally posted by guinny
Damn, makes me wonder something. Why do the weapon models still suck? They still look like p_models and w_models. The texturing and modeling sucks ass. However the enviornment is gorgeous. Someone explain that to me.

Gabe recently replied to an email concerning a similar topic and stated that all of the finishing details are being added in these final days of completion of the game.

 

[RoyGBiv]

if you look closely you have bump mapping all over the map with tiles. and also it's not some major thing anyway, i mean you could get that stalker tile look in tenebrae on the quake 1 engine so it's not a big deal.

 

[asd]

looks like a specular map

 

[BWMASTER]

I knew bumpmapping existed before but here it is put to subtle use which really adds to the environment.

Not bumpmaps that stick in your eye ala Doom III Alpha (oh no I have said too much)

/me runs away

 

[Gashtar]

Originally posted by asd
looks like a specular map

specular+bump

 

[SnowBall]

Shaders and bump mapping?

 

[Lobster]

In tunnels, between the gantrys and hyrda, in that conecting corrdor with the big 3, if u freeze it, theres a sweet wall texture under the light.

Even these bink movies have focus blurring on 70% of the screen, only the actual game can truly show the beauty of this engine.

 

[Joeyslucky22]

Why does stalker even have any hype?

It really does not look that good.. its like a hl2 wanna be... lol

 

[nw909]

Originally posted by guinny
Damn, makes me wonder something. Why do the weapon models still suck? They still look like p_models and w_models. The texturing and modeling sucks ass. However the enviornment is gorgeous. Someone explain that to me.

Look at the big machine gun with the green scope in bugbait, wait until he gets out of the door, you can see the freaking wall and door reflected on the scope, so don't tell me the weapon models suck.

 

[koopa]

Originally posted by Joeyslucky22
Why does stalker even have any hype?

It really does not look that good.. its like a hl2 wanna be... lol

Agreed - some nice texturing in places, but I can't really see what all the fuss is about yet. And I'll believe all the claims about super-duper AI and realistic physics when I see them in action.

 

[TheStalker]

Is it a HL 2 wanna be even though it was announced before knowledge of HL 2 was made public? It does look good as far as graphics and gameplay, it merely has a different style. However, I have noticed that many people here shun every style that is not HL or HL 2. Too bad, more games for me.

Back to bump mapping though, yeah it looks pretty good in the Source engine. It doesn't look like they apply it to all surfaces though, but I guess we'll find out in the final version. If they don't apply it to all the surfaces I think it might end up being somewhat glaring. I probably won't notice it while I'm blowing things away though.

P.S. Next time people here make an asinine and completely ignorant response just know that you really do come off as an idiot.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by TheStalker
P.S. Next time people here make an asinine and completely ignorant response just know that you really do come off as an idiot.

I never say Stalker sucks or anything like that - I'm not one of those people. I just said that HL2 will have bump mapping + specular mapping very similar to Stalker's, which is true.

 

[Bad^Hat]

The USP in the traptown vid did look pretty crappy, but the SPAS in comparisaon was really nicely done. So yeah just finishing touches I guess.

 

[Nathaniel]

Am I the only one who thinks that Bumpmapping does nothing to a surface but makes it look wet? On the picture posted in the first post, the wall seems like it's from a showerroom or something, they they've been spraying it with water just seconds before we get that shot.

From what I've seen, bumpmapping is just slippery surfaces

 

[koopa]

The 'wet' look is just overuse of specular highlighting to say 'look, i'm bumpy'. Mostly bumping is a bit subtler than that and a bit tougher to spot.

I've got a feeling bump-mapping is going to be this years lens flare

 

[MaDMaXX]

the "wet" look is because of the light reflecting off the ceramic tiles, it appears fine, and yes, it appears ot be some sort of shower/wash room

 

[Nathaniel]

Originally posted by koopa
The 'wet' look is just overuse of specular highlighting to say 'look, i'm bumpy'. Mostly bumping is a bit subtler than that and a bit tougher to spot.

yep, that's what I hope for. Unless they go for the subtle, stylish look they're gonna end up with Doom3 (which is nothing but one big game of 'wet' levels ) and it ain't gonna be pretty. I trust Valve though, I really think they'll make a kickass game.

I had my doubts when the first LoTR movie came out, I thought they were gonna do like the rest, which is implement as many 3d-animated characters as possible and cut down on the detail. Instead I pleasantly surprised when I could hardly spot what was computer generate and what wasn't! They really went out of their way to make everything fit into the theme and feel of the scene, which I trust Valve to do just the same.

 

[DeStRoYeR]

Go EBMP!

 

[Nathaniel]

...and EBMP is...?

 

[koopa]

In this context, EBMP is probably Environmental BumpMapping.

 

[Duhreetoh]

Dude, most of the detail on that wall is part of the specularity map, not the bump map.

 

[X-Vector]

Originally posted by TheStalker
If they don't apply it to all the surfaces I think it might end up being somewhat glaring.

No, it's actually a good thing to only apply specific graphical effects when needed.

We wouldn't want to end up with a game that looks like Tenebrae Quake or Abducted, now would we?

 

[Nathaniel]

Originally posted by Duhreetoh
Dude, most of the detail on that wall is part of the specularity map, not the bump map.

if it's me you're referring to, I never pretended to know anything about bumpmapping or specular mapping. I simply commented on what I had seen in the video.

although after the information I've received I must say that my feelings towards bumpmapping have changed. Bumpmap all you want Valve, just don't overdo it, please...

 

[UDHA]

how did you take that screen shot? and at what point? and yeah, not only are the physics totally ground breaking for any game, but they have to go and use the latest pixel shader, vertex shader, lighting, normal - bump - spectacular mapping availible to date in real time

 

[MoJo|Night]

There's been plenty of threads discussing stalker vs hl2 so i won't go into too much detail but basically they are completely different types of game, hl2 and doom3 and far cray are more comparable and stalker should be compared to dx2. Even then only when they have been released.

If you want to see bump mapping put to good use go to crytek.com and look at the polybump technology they have developed which they are using in the cryEngine and therefore in far cry. Polygon levels have been reduced massively yet some of the graphics detail is unbelievable on some of their models.

People like valve and crytek and the stalker devs (sorry forgot the name) seem to be finding efficient and effect ways of using new technologies and also scaling them across hardware levels, that's the maon reason I think they'll all leave domm3 in the dust since that game will probably be unplayable on anything less than a super computer.

 

[Dagobert]

People like valve and crytek and the stalker devs (sorry forgot the name) seem to be finding efficient and effect ways of using new technologies and also scaling them across hardware levels, that's the maon reason I think they'll all leave domm3 in the dust since that game will probably be unplayable on anything less than a super computer.

Wrong wrong wrong. Normal mapping (as Crytek and about 300 other developers use) is only available on GF3 and above cards. So it does not scale it across hardware levels. It's the same technique as id use, and it's as scalable in the D3 engine as it is in the FarCry engine (i.e. not at all).

I wish people would stop the 'amateur graphics expert' crap.

 

[jbscotchman]

Originally posted by BWMASTER
I just noticed another small detail in the bugbait movie that some of you might of missed and it involves bumpmapping.

In the attached screenshot you can really see the power of bumpmapping on the wall. It really adds alot of detail and makes it seem more life-like.

HL2 CAN'T COME SOON ENUFF!!

Dude, bumpmapping is used in pretty much the entire game. :dozey:

 

[Lifthz]

Half-Life 2 uses less bumpmapping than it should. Most of the texturing is very flat from what i've seen.

Originally posted by jbscotchman
Dude, bumpmapping is used in pretty much the entire game. :dozey:

Yeah, if you say so. I see a lot of flat surfaces though. More flat surfaces than bumpmapped ones...

Originally posted by Joeyslucky22
Why does stalker even have any hype?

It really does not look that good.. its like a hl2 wanna be... lol

Moron. Shows you know nothing about what you're talking about.

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
I never say Stalker sucks or anything like that - I'm not one of those people. I just said that HL2 will have bump mapping + specular mapping very similar to Stalker's, which is true.

No. Not true. Half-Life 2 has, yes. But not very much. Games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R make use of it much more robustly. I can tell by watching the Steam footage, a lot of HL2 texturing is very flat but detailed, a lot.

And by the way. Doom 3 and Far Cry use NORMAL mapping, not bumpmapping. Similar, but Normal mapping is potentially more detailed than Bumpmapping.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Lifthz
Half-Life 2 uses less bumpmapping than it should. Most of the texturing is very flat from what i've seen.

I real life not all surfaces are "bumpy" (to a noticeable degree). Obviously it's important to use bump mapping on surfaces like bricks, tiles, cement walls, etc., but for most other surfaces a specular map is enough.

 

[Lifthz]

No, most surfaces ARE bumpy. Some more than others. Walls are bumpy. Imperfections are very common. Specular isn't enough for most things, most things can use a combination of specular and bumps, other things can do without specular and just have bump.

I was really surprised when Gordon walked up behind that wooden box in the Tunnels video and the texture was completely flat. Hopefully it's placeholder along with many other things like the walls. I'm just really dissappointed when I see a really well done texture, then you get close to it and it's flat.

I just found it extremely weird that you would say something like "Did someone say S.T.A.L.K.E.R?" out of nowhere like that, especially since S.T.A.L.K.E.R owns HL-2 in this area to say the least. Or at least from what we'e seen so far.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by Lifthz

I just found it extremely weird that you would say something like "Did someone say S.T.A.L.K.E.R?" out of nowhere like that, especially since S.T.A.L.K.E.R owns HL-2 in this area to say the least. Or at least from what we'e seen so far.

The reason I said that is because at first I didn't even think Source engine had the CAPABILITY for Stalker-like realistic bump mapping and specular mapping. But now I see that it does and it's even used in the game (although Stalker might use it in more places).

 

[Lifthz]

All new engines should have that capability. It's up to the artists to use it though...it had been around since Geforce 2 (DX7). First game I saw using it a lot was Halo(Xbox) and Aquanox 2 used it too, but not as well as Halo.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R's shaders are all DX9 though, in the full DX9 render that is. S.T.A.L.K.E.R doesn't use any bumpmapping or speculars in its the DX7/8 render, in the DX9 render it's going to be used on almost EVERYTHING though, like Halo 2... but Halo 2 isn't DX9 (Xbox).

By the way, I saw the specular on the walls in Bugbait since the Gamespy 600MB video, didn't anyone else? It was quite obvious, looks good from those angles.

 

[Mr.Reak]

Originally posted by Lifthz
All new engines should have that capability. It's up to the artists to use it though...it had been around since Geforce 2 (DX7). First game I saw using it a lot was Halo(Xbox) and Aquanox 2 used it too, but not as well as Halo.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R's shaders are all DX9 though, in the full DX9 render that is. S.T.A.L.K.E.R doesn't use any bumpmapping or speculars in its the DX7/8 render.


By the way, I saw the specular on the walls in Bugbait since the Gamespy 600MB video, didn't anyone else? It was quite obvious, looks good from those angles.

Same goes for Half-life 2. We will see how much of bump-mapping it will use. You never know, maybe they weren't finished applaying it to every wall yet.

 

[Lifthz]

Perhaps. Gabe did tell me they were working on putting "a lot more DX9" into the game. But as of right now, the same doesn't go for Half-Life 2. Not until I see it. So far i've seen mostly flat detailed textures that dissappoint when you get close. Seeing is believing, we'll see what happens when it comes out.