Bush: "30,000 iraqis dead but I'd do it again"

[CptStern]

"I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," Bush said during a speech in Pennsylvania.

"Knowing what I know today, I'd make the decision again," Bush said. "Removing Saddam Hussein makes this world a better place and America a safer country."



if I was standing there, secret service or not I'd wind up and clock him one in the chin ..will the lies ever cease?


while bush was lying his way through the rest of the public speech new allegations of torture in Iraqi prisons surfaced. So Mr Bush you replace one madman who tortures his subjects only to replace him with a regime that does the same?


"A source from the Iraqi police in Baghdad told CNN that some of the 13 detainees who were hospitalized showed signs of torture -- specifically that they had been beaten with cables and some of them subjected to electric shock."

 

[Glirk Dient]

I don't know if you know this or not...but Sadam tortured...well A LOT of people. The amount that have been tortured by idiot soldiers is no where near the amount sadam tortured. IMO less torture is better than more...so I don't see how us occupying is worse than sadam.

 

[gh0st]

i hope we kill 30 thousand more.

 

[Zeus]

I don't...thats a dumb thing to say...we (the US) are already getting a bad reputation for whats going on right now as it is..

 

[Glirk Dient]

i hope we kill 30 thousand more.

I am going to assume your not serious and are instead trying to incite responses.

Killing more people = bad. That is why we went in to save those people from sadam and rebuild their country. It is taking a while but they will be better off in the end.

 

[gh0st]

no i just choose to respond in the most simple denomination to cptsterns idiotic post as i can.

new prison allegations - done w/o US/Iraqi admininistrations knowledge. they were done seperately and in secret by the interior ministry or whatever.

thats why the army, and iraqi police are investigating it. there is no regime sponsored torture in iraq.

 

[CptStern]

I don't know if you know this or not...but Sadam tortured...well A LOT of people. The amount that have been tortured by idiot soldiers is no where near the amount sadam tortured. IMO less torture is better than more...so I don't see how us occupying is worse than sadam.

the US didnt give a shit when you called him friend and ally, you didnt give a shit that the chemical weapons you were using were killing kurds by the thousands. And for the LAST FREAKING TIME the order to torture suspects came from the Department of Defense NOT individual soldiers acting of their own accord ..the torture followed to a "t" CIA field manuals on torture methods

oh and occupying IS worse than what saddam did to his people ..estimates put the death toll at over 100,000 in a few short years more iraqis will have died since the invasion than died throughout the entire reign of saddam

 

[X_i_Z_o_R]

That is why we went in to save those people from sadam and rebuild their country. It is taking a while but they will be better off in the end.

It's unlikely that the well being of Iraqi people was the main objective of the war. War, like anything else, is fuelled by interests of one party, the other will lose out, in this case the Iraqi people.

 

[DrDevin]

the US didnt give a shit when you called him friend and ally, you didnt give a shit that the chemical weapons you were using were killing kurds by the thousands. And for the LAST FREAKING TIME the order to torture suspects came from the Department of Defense NOT individual soldiers acting of their own accord ..the torture followed to a "t" CIA field manuals on torture methods

oh and occupying IS worse than what saddam did to his people ..estimates put the death toll at over 100,000 in a few short years more iraqis will have died since the invasion than died throughout the entire reign of saddam

What do you propose they do? Leave Iraq and let it go back to the way it was? Dont you think the place still be home to many killings despite the US being gone?

Don't take that as shooting you down, I'm asking for your honest oppinion.

 

[dream431ca]

Ya. I saw that on the news as well. It's not the president, it's the people that's backing him. As soon as they pull their heads out of their asses, Bush will have no support..but that will never happen. Basically they will be smelling shit all their lives.

 

[baxter]

I'd make the decision again

Of course you would Mr Bush, because you're a war mongering idiot.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/11/30/int10.htm

To describe Iraq as the most foolish war of the last 2,014 years is a sweeping statement, but the writer is well qualified to know.

Interesting read.

 

[Qonfused]

Wow.

And why we don't empeach him, I have no idea.

I was watching Black Hawk Down yesterday and thought to myself: "Why don't we just nuke everything? No good is going to come from these countries."
Now, I know that does sound harsh, but think about it.

 

[CptStern]

the only acts of terrorism during the reign of saddam were perpetuated by saddam himself ..there were other terrorist acts but they were sponsored by outside influences

 

[Glirk Dient]

the US didnt give a shit when you called him friend and ally, you didnt give a shit that the chemical weapons you were using were killing kurds by the thousands.

We cared, just nobody did anything about it at the time. We also didn't give sadam the weapons to use against his own people...that is why it was an attrocity.

And for the LAST FREAKING TIME the order to torture suspects came from the Department of Defense NOT individual soldiers acting of their own accord ..the torture followed to a "t" CIA field manuals on torture methods

suspects, prisoners, all of them? Anyways...let's not get into this its a whole different issue.

oh and occupying IS worse than what saddam did to his people ..estimates put the death toll at over 100,000 in a few short years more iraqis will have died since the invasion than died throughout the entire reign of saddam

please...don't take the most biased number you can and post it. It was just released to be around 30,000.

 

[baxter]

We cared, just nobody did anything about it at the time. We also didn't give sadam the weapons to use against his own people...that is why it was an attrocity.

Did you hell care. The US and Britain supplied this maniac with chemicals, it is well documented. Donald Rumford was over in Iraq shaking hands with saddam, weeks after he used Chemicals on his own people.
This, we really cared and had to rush into to save the Iraq people, is total rubbish.
The US, along with the rest of the Western world cared nothing.
Oh before you start spouting the Bush party line, here’s a link.

Hoping to downplay its own culpability in Iraq's past war crimes, the U.S. reportedly suppressed the list of firms that contributed to Saddam's arsenal, but the dossier was leaked to a German newspaper, Die Tageszeitung, which published it. More information trickled onto the back pages of The New York Times and the Washington Post. The main facts are no longer in dispute.

The U.S. companies listed, some of which have facilities in Silicon Valley, include Spectra Physics, Honeywell, Dupont, Eastman Kodak, Bechtel, Tektronix, Unisys, Rockwell and Hewlett-Packard. They allegedly provided materials for Iraq's rocket program, planned nuclear weapons program and conventional weapons program, which includes military logistics as well as supplies and materials for building weapons plants.

The complete list included 24 companies with home bases in the United States, along with 50 subsidiaries of foreign companies that conducted their arms business with Iraq from within U.S. borders.

In addition to these companies, another group designated in the report as Iraq's arms suppliers includes the U.S. Ministries of Defense, Energy, Trade and Agriculture, as well as Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos and Sandia National laboratori

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/02.20.03/iraq-0308.html

Sounds like The US really gave a shite.

 

[CptStern]

We cared, just nobody did anything about it at the time. We also didn't give sadam the weapons to use against his own people...that is why it was an attrocity.

? as baxter pointed out: yes you supplied saddam with chemical weapons

suspects, prisoners, all of them? Anyways...let's not get into this its a whole different issue.

they're "suspects" because the majority havent been charged with crimes

please...don't take the most biased number you can and post it. It was just released to be around 30,000.

most biased? you dont even know what I'm referring to. The Lancet study is the ONLY field study, it's not like there's an offical tally cuz the US doesnt bother to count iraqi dead. GWB probably just visted this site for the first time today

 

[Absinthe]

"the Americans will be damned if they stay and damned if they leave."

<3 Bush

 

[dream431ca]

"the Americans will be damned if they stay and damned if they leave."

<3 Bush

LOL!! my god that was probably the most stupidest bush quotes I have ever heard!

 

[Absinthe]

That wasn't Bush. That was from the article.

 

[dream431ca]

That wasn't Bush. That was from the article.

Oops..my mistake. ;( Still it would have been funny.

 

[SAJ]

We also didn't give sadam the weapons to use against his own people...that is why it was an attrocity.

So, if The US had given its permission to use its weapons against his own people, then it would be ok?
Alternatively, are you saying that using the chemical agents against their intended target, say Iran, would be somehow less of an atrocity?
There just isnt a favourable interpretation to that remark.

please...don't take the most biased number you can and post it. It was just released to be around 30,000.

Tell us please how the lancet study is biased, staticians around the world will be waiting with baited breath.
And your own figure (30,000) seems to be coming straight from G.W Bush`s mouth, we would all prefer a more credible source.

 

[satch919]

Killing more people = bad. That is why we went in to save those people from sadam and rebuild their country.

Save them from Saddam? Those 30,000 people might still be alive if we hadn't gone in there to "save" them. We didn't seem to care when there were 800,000 Rwandans killed in 100 days, what makes you think we (American Government) actually cared for the Iraqi people? In addition, we'd have 2146 Americans still alive.

It is taking a while but they will be better off in the end.

Yeah, tell that to the Iraqi people who have lost loved ones. Tell that to the American families who have lost a loved one.

After all, we know what's best for the Iraqi people right?:|

 

[baxter]

That is why we went in to save those people from sadam and rebuild their country. It is taking a while but they will be better off in the end.

This is the total cost of the Iraq war

With this money Bush could :

A. Have paid for 29,954,359 children to attend a year of Head Start.

B. Have insured 135,422,464 children for one year

C. Have hired 3,919,303 additional public school teachers for one year.

D. Have provided 10,963,526 students four-year scholarships at public universities.

E. Have built 2,036,319 additional housing units.

F. Have fully funded global anti-hunger efforts for 9 years.

G. Have fully funded world-wide AIDS programs for 22 years.

H. Have ensured that every child in the world was given basic immunizations for 75 years.

Or he could have invaded Iraq, and killed thousands of innocent people.Get better, save people and rebuild countries? don't make me laugh.

 

[dantewilliams]

Of course you would Mr Bush, because you're a war mongering idiot.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/11/30/int10.htm



Interesting read.

hmmm lets see augustus lost all of his armies, and george bush has lost what a company of men. i hardly see how its a military defeat. last time i checked saddam was ousted and the country is being rebuilt. hardly a defeat, or better yet hardly a foolish war.

 

[dantewilliams]

"I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," Bush said during a speech in Pennsylvania.

"Knowing what I know today, I'd make the decision again," Bush said. "Removing Saddam Hussein makes this world a better place and America a safer country."



if I was standing there, secret service or not I'd wind up and clock him one in the chin ..will the lies ever cease?


while bush was lying his way through the rest of the public speech new allegations of torture in Iraqi prisons surfaced. So Mr Bush you replace one madman who tortures his subjects only to replace him with a regime that does the same?


"A source from the Iraqi police in Baghdad told CNN that some of the 13 detainees who were hospitalized showed signs of torture -- specifically that they had been beaten with cables and some of them subjected to electric shock."

stern how did bush lie in this speech, he is simply saying he would do it again, its a matter of his opinion.

 

[baxter]

hmmm lets see augustus lost all of his armies, and george bush has lost what a company of men. i hardly see how its a military defeat. last time i checked saddam was ousted and the country is being rebuilt. hardly a defeat, or better yet hardly a foolish war.

Really? You must be so proud. What a victory, tens of thousands of innocent people dead, thousands of US soldiers dead, a country in tatters.
Hey but we got the bad guy.
Ahhhh the sweet smell of victory.
( I'm being sarcastic)

"I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," Bush said during a speech in Pennsylvania.
"Knowing what I know today, I'd make the decision again," Truly inspiring. (Again I'm being sarcastic)


Didn't actually read the story in the link did you ?

 

[CptStern]

stern how did bush lie in this speech, he is simply saying he would do it again, its a matter of his opinion.

"Removing Saddam Hussein makes this world a better place and America a safer country"

that's a lie, saddam was never a threat ..by the US' own admission

 

[Vigilante]

i hope we kill 30 thousand more.

QF to the T

 

[Solaris]

Tell us please how the lancet study is biased, staticians around the world will be waiting with baited breath.
And your own figure (30,000) seems to be coming straight from G.W Bush`s mouth, we would all prefer a more credible source.

How about a record of every death?
Here

 

[Mr Stabby]

I was watching Black Hawk Down yesterday and thought to myself: "Why don't we just nuke everything? No good is going to come from these countries."
Now, I know that does sound harsh, but think about it.

Or leave those countries alone to conduct their own affairs, and stop getting involved where you aren't wanted

 

[Vigilante]

The only way to solve this problem is to nuke the middle east









/sarcasm

 

[Solaris]

The only way to solve this problem is to Nuke some education into the USA.

/Truth

Fixed.

When you elect bush, youre officialy a failure at democracy.

 

[Mr Stabby]

although the first time Bush cheated. Second time he had Awnould

 

[CptStern]

the second time around he fear mongered christians into voting for him:


"..One of the most successful tactics of social conservatives -- the ballot referendums against same-sex marriage in 13 states -- bubbled up from below and initially met resistance from White House aides, Christian leaders said....

...In dozens of interviews since the election, grass-roots activists in Ohio, Michigan and Florida credited President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, with setting a clear goal that became a mantra among conservatives: To win, Bush had to draw 4 million more evangelicals to the polls than he did in 2000.


In battlegrounds such as Ohio, scores of clergy members attended legal sessions explaining how they could talk about the election from the pulpit. Hundreds of churches launched registration drives, thousands of churchgoers registered to vote, and millions of voter guides were distributed by Christian and antiabortion groups.

The rallying cry for many social conservatives was opposition to same-sex marriage. But concern about the Supreme Court, abortion, school prayer and pornography also motivated these "values voters." Same-sex marriage, said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, was "the hood ornament on the family values wagon that carried the president to a second term."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32793-2004Nov7.html

it's those pesky christians again

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I don't...thats a dumb thing to say...we (the US) are already getting a bad reputation for whats going on right now as it is..

I voted for John Kerry......Unofficially :frown:

 

[satch919]

Fixed.

When you elect bush, youre officialy a failure at democracy.

Don't blame me, I voted for KERRY!

CptStern is correct when he talks about the fear-mongering. If you can whip people up into a state of panic, you got them by the balls.

 

[SAJ]

Solaris wrote:

How about a record of every death?
Here

Whilst I have the utmost respect for IBC(iraqbodycount), they do not claim (and nor should they) to be 100% definitive and accurate.
They have been recording and tabulating civilian deaths as reported in the media from nearly the start of the invasion, when no-one else would even consider doing so. The pertinant part of this is "as reported in the media" , if your death isnt reported by two sanctioned media outlets, you dont get counted by IBC. For that reason the IBC tally should only be used as a baseline of minimum Iraqi civillian deaths, not as a definitive total of casualties.

From their own words:

Maximum deaths. This is the highest number of civilian deaths published by at least two of our approved list of news media sources.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/background.htm#methods

There are so many factors that will lead to underreporting in Iraq that methods other than those of the IBC need to be employed to even get close to a true figure of the loss of life in that country.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

"A source from the Iraqi police in Baghdad told CNN that some of the 13 detainees who were hospitalized showed signs of torture -- specifically that they had been beaten with cables and some of them subjected to electric shock."

Oh waagh! You did'nt make Baby Jesus cry ... *coughbeheadingcough* ... but you did give him some influenza ...

 

[CptStern]

so that's it? you want to be fairly compared to terrorists?

I absolutely abhor this idiotic notion that amounts to "well they're doing this so we should be allowed to do that" ..earth to oblivious guy "YOU ARE THE CALVARY, YOU CHARGED TO THE RESCUE under the mantle of liberator, you have international rules to adhere to (when you feel like it). Shut up and do as you say you do instead of doing what you want

 

[southernman17]

A. Have paid for 29,954,359 children to attend a year of Head Start.

B. Have insured 135,422,464 children for one year

Not a governmental responsibility in America.

C. Have hired 3,919,303 additional public school teachers for one year.

State, not federal matter.

D. Have provided 10,963,526 students four-year scholarships at public universities.

E. Have built 2,036,319 additional housing units.

Bullshit. I don't want my taxes building houses for those bastards.

F. Have fully funded global anti-hunger efforts for 9 years.

Not an American problem.

G. Have fully funded world-wide AIDS programs for 22 years.

See above.

H. Have ensured that every child in the world was given basic immunizations for 75 years.

Not with my tax dollars.

Unbelieveable. Point F, G, and H demonstrate some of the hypocrasy on this board. You complain about America being involved where its not wanted but then say that we could've funded global anti-hunger programs, fund some sort of AIDS program, and give immunization shots to every child for 75 years?So the world is allowed to just use our resources whenever they feel like it? Come and knock on our door whenever they want something? So we are not allowed to do anything for ourselves except be the world's bitch pretty much. I agree, we should've spent more money on the education and helping the future generation rather than spend huge amounts of resources on this war but I am opposed to FOREIGNERS telling us how to spend OUR money. Especially spending on things like point F, G, and H.