Bush Calls Human Rights Report 'Absurd'

[CptStern]

"President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America." "



:upstare: ..."you're either for us or you just god darned hate america"

""It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world {what a joke!!!, he really is a half-wit}," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag."


source

 

[willyd]

Isnt this funny:

On another foreign policy issue, Bush shot back at critics who suggest his diplomatic approach to
North Korea is allowing the communist regime to expand its nuclear program. "If diplomacy is the wrong approach, I guess that means military. That's how I view it as either diplomacy or military. I am for the diplomacy approach," he said. "And for those who say we ought to be using our military to stop a problem, I would say that while all options are on the table, we've still got a ways to go to solve this diplomatically."



Is W learning that there are other ways then bombing children? Maybe I just hope too much. It just seems vastly different then say hmm what was that i word country?


edit: reading more of that article, i really dont understand what GWB is doing putting pressure on Putin. I guess protecting corrupt billionaires is his cup of tea. (okay that was a cheap shot)

 

[Foxtrot]

Isnt this funny:

On another foreign policy issue, Bush shot back at critics who suggest his diplomatic approach to
North Korea is allowing the communist regime to expand its nuclear program. "If diplomacy is the wrong approach, I guess that means military. That's how I view it as either diplomacy or military. I am for the diplomacy approach," he said. "And for those who say we ought to be using our military to stop a problem, I would say that while all options are on the table, we've still got a ways to go to solve this diplomatically."



Is W learning that there are other ways then bombing children? Maybe I just hope too much. It just seems vastly different then say hmm what was that i word country?


edit: reading more of that article, i really dont understand what GWB is doing putting pressure on Putin. I guess protecting corrupt billionaires is his cup of tea. (okay that was a cheap shot)

Ya, we really should have tried diplomacy in Iraq, I bet if we just have peace a chance it would have worked! ;(

 

[willyd]

Ya, we really should have tried diplomacy in Iraq, I bet if we just have peace a chance it would have worked! ;(

Whatever happened to the peace pipe? Oh yeah we killed all the native americans.

Welllll, in that case...... AMERICA F*** YEAH, NUKE THEIR A** and TAKE THAT GAS

 

[iyfyoufhl]

we should've sent our "special ops" teams in Iraq, quetly take out Saddam and let the people loose, might have saved so many lifes and money

 

[Asknoone]

Bush always gives me a good laugh.

 

[Foxtrot]

we should've sent our "special ops" teams in Iraq, quetly take out Saddam and let the people loose, might have saved so many lifes and money

We already tried that and it never worked, besides there were people who would have taken his spot.

 

[Shakermaker]

Bush always gives me a good laugh.

Same here. He should try a career in stand up comedy after he finishes his term.

 

[willyd]

We already tried that and it never worked, besides there were people who would have taken his spot.

Definitely, his sons were so much worse then he himself. Or at least one of them was way more crazy.

 

[Dag]

And what way to crush the bulk of the Fedayine. (Sorry, not spelled right, at all.) then full armored invasion?

 

[Kebean PFC]

other ways then bombing children

Cool it. Seriously we did not go in there and "Bomb children." That is absurd and uncalled for. No US soldier has EVER intentionally killed a child. That just really ticks me off.

Well, i say let him try diplomacy on Korea, it probably won't work, but give it a go.

 

[el Chi]

"If diplomacy is the wrong approach, I guess that means military. That's how I view it as either diplomacy or military. I am for the diplomacy approach," he said. "And for those who say we ought to be using our military to stop a problem, I would say that while all options are on the table, we've still got a ways to go to solve this diplomatically."

There's a chance that that's the most poorly constructed sentence I've ever read. Bless him, he ain't the best public spealer now is he. When posed with tough questions an' all.


And yes, the black-or-white no-middle-ground perspective he appears to be advocating here is absurd. It's plain as day that what's going on in Guantanamo Bay is a gross violation of human rights.

 

[baxter]

Cool it. Seriously we did not go in there and "Bomb children." That is absurd and uncalled for. No US soldier has EVER intentionally killed a child. That just really ticks me off.

What exactly are you doing there?

 

[Hapless]

"President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America." "



:upstare: ..."you're either for us or you just god darned hate america"

""It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world {what a joke!!!, he really is a half-wit}," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag."


source

"Hostility toward America is a religious duty, and we hope to be rewarded for it by God . . . . I am confident that Muslims will be able to end the legend of the so-called superpower that is America.--Time Magazine

"Every American man is an enemy to us." -- Independent

We believe that the biggest thieves in the world are Americans and the biggest terrorists on earth are the Americans.--On ABC's Nightline, June 10, 1998

When taken to the prosecution office, the brother should do the following:

a. He should, prior to questioning and whether or not he has injuries, ask the prosecutor or his representative to be seen by the medical examiner.
b. He should, when the questioning begins, ask that evidence of his torture be entered in the report proceedings.

c. He should, prior to the start of the questioning, ask that an attorney be present with him during the questioning process. He should mention the attorney by name.


UK/BM-164 TRANSLATION

d. He should ask for food.
e. He should deny all information [accusations] about him by the prosecution representative. He should claim that the interrogation apparatus has fabricated those accusations and should deny his connection to anything\ obtained against him.

f. The brother may have to confess under pressure of torture in the interrogation center. Once in the prosecution center, however, he should say that he was tortured, deny all his former confessions, and ask that the interrogation be repeated

The main mission for which the Military Organization is responsible is:

The overthrow of the godless regimes and their replacement with an Islamic regime.

Other missions consist of the following:


5. Spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy.

Nope, no evidence that these people hate America and make things up to make America look bad. GWB sure is stupid.

 

[No Limit]

"President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America." "



:upstare: ..."you're either for us or you just god darned hate america"

""It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world {what a joke!!!, he really is a half-wit}," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag."


source

Honestly, how can any idiot buy this shit? American politics is depressing; Bush doesn't have to address anything all he has to do is say those against us hate our freedom and republicans seem to buy it without even thinking of questioning it. Don't worry Stern and the rest of the world; 06 elections are right around the corner. We will still have old chimpy in office for 2 years but a much smarter congress will be in power.

 

[CptStern]

Nope, no evidence that these people hate America and make things up to make America look bad. GWB sure is stupid.

nope no chance at all

 

[seinfeldrules]

all he has to do is say those against us hate our freedom and republicans seem to buy it without even thinking of questioning it.

Just as all these organizations have to do is blame America and liberals buy it without question. These organizations are supposed to be neutral, yet they compare America to the Nazis. Sounds real unbiased to me!

 

[Hapless]

nope no chance at all

Your statement mocked Bush's assertion that the Guantanamo detainees hate America. I provided evidence that they DO in fact hate America, and DO in fact make things up to make ANY of their captors look bad.

I'm going to have to start falling back on these Osama quotes in every argument like you do with Madeline Albright. I'm actually surprised that hasn't come up yet in this discussion. In every discussion, you either bring up that quote, the Abu Ghraib abuses, or Ramsey Clark's "War Crimes Tribunal" farce to say, "See! See! You can't argue with this!! America is bad!! GWB is bad!!" As if one quote from an ambushed Secretary of State in response to a question based on conjecture and Hussein propaganda speaks for US policy, as if the actions of a group of nitwit National Guardsmen is evidence of widespread abuse especially when the investigation into the abuse was begun long before the press got ahold of it, and as if Ramsey Clark can be taken seriously AT ALL.

It is well documented that these folks are intent on attempting to bring the US to it's knees in whatever way they can. I can picture bin Laden and his cronies snickering as your "ilk," as you like to say, play right into their hands.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Guantanamo Bay prison is a happy place with bunny rabbits and fairys

There are no breaches of human rights there, just promotion of love and peace!



..

 

[DreamThrall]

Just as all these organizations have to do is blame America and liberals buy it without question. These organizations are supposed to be neutral, yet they compare America to the Nazis. Sounds real unbiased to me!

Not quite. I'm fairly sure there are far less liberals that would seriously compare modern-day Americans to Nazis. I've found that in the general population, your average liberal is more the dictionary (the REAL dictionary) definition of liberal and not the kind of idiot that Sean Hannity (for example) invites on his show to yell at.

Your statement mocked Bush's assertion that the Guantanamo detainees hate America. I provided evidence that they DO in fact hate America, and DO in fact make things up to make ANY of their captors look bad. ...

Okay, but I believe he was making reference to "with us or against us" style comments. You seem to be a somewhat intelligent person, you should know that there are more types of people than Bush supporters and Al Qaeda members. The world is not nearly as black and white as the Bush Administration wishes it was.

 

[CptStern]

Your statement mocked Bush's assertion that the Guantanamo detainees hate America. I provided evidence that they DO in fact hate America, and DO in fact make things up to make ANY of their captors look bad.

and? so you're saying none of it is true? there's no abuse or torture in gitmo? it's all made up?

I'm going to have to start falling back on these Osama quotes in every argument like you do with Madeline Albright.

go ahead but I fail to see what that would prove ...that the war in iraq was justified? that 500,000 dead children was worth it? (i love that quote) ...there's no surprise here, osama is a fanatic, what's your excuse?

I'm actually surprised that hasn't come up yet in this discussion.

see above :E

In every discussion, you either bring up that quote, the Abu Ghraib abuses, or Ramsey Clark's "War Crimes Tribunal" farce to say, "See! See! You can't argue with this!! America is bad!! GWB is bad!!"

yup, shouldnt have invaded iraq

As if one quote from an ambushed Secretary of State in response to a question based on conjecture and Hussein propaganda speaks for US policy, as if the actions of a group of nitwit National Guardsmen is evidence of widespread abuse especially when the investigation into the abuse was begun long before the press got ahold of it, and as if Ramsey Clark can be taken seriously AT ALL.

you hate your former attorney general dontcha?

what about all the evidence that the torture didint originate from a "group of nitwit National Guardsmen " but was ordered from up high? ..that was carried out systmatically in iraq, gitmo, afghanistan and even in other foreign nations through "rendering"? I can repost the link to the Human Exploitation Resource Training Manual if you'd like

It is well documented that these folks are intent on attempting to bring the US to it's knees in whatever way they can.

I agree ....but that doesnt excuse the US from human rights abuses

I can picture bin Laden and his cronies snickering as your "ilk," as you like to say, play right into their hands.

my "ilk" is the only thing that stands between your "ilk" and armageddon ...thankyouverymuch for bringing us peace and stability

 

[Direwolf]

I've been poking around at the Gitmo stuff available, and it seems to be a mix between horror stories and accounts that treat it like a resort. It's likely that it falls somewhere in between.

And this time around, if you can look past the normal political rhetoric, I think Bush actually has a point. Many of the reports from the insides of Gitmo are from released prisoners. These guys were stuck in a prison often half way around the world from their home and we expect them to come out with glowing reports? Whens the last time you met a convict who said his cell "really wasn't that bad." I can't imagine that they're really being all that objective.

Second point is just against Amnesty International, and their comparison of it to the Gulag. This is just absolutely ridiculous. Even if the conditions approached the total hell that was the Soviet Gulags (I'd bet serious stakes that its not), then the sheer size difference between the two operations preclude any comparisons. It would be like comparing Columbine to the Holocaust.

 

[Korgoth]

Nope, no evidence that these people hate America and make things up to make America look bad. GWB sure is stupid.

And saddam husseins Iraq is in that post... where exactly?

 

[el Chi]

Your statement mocked Bush's assertion that the Guantanamo detainees hate America. I provided evidence that they DO in fact hate America, and DO in fact make things up to make ANY of their captors look bad.

Because ALL of the prisoners - let's not sugar-coat it with the more civil "detainees" term, let's call them what they are - are unquestionably guilty and are perfectly deservng of being held for an indefinite amount of time whilst being subject to gross violations of their basic human rights.

Let there be no confusion: I have no illusions that the genuine terrorists are bad people, nor do I have much sympathy for them, so please let's not hurl the standard bullsh*t "bleeding heartliberal" label at me, thankyouverymuch.

However, the prisoners are being tortured in fairly awful and humiliating ways - often fairly inventive - and one can't help but wonder that it seems some of the troops there enjoy their job just that little bit too much.

So, for Bush to stand up and say that Amnesty's assessment of the Guantanamo Bay prison ("camp" really doesn't do it justice) is "absurd" is dreadful and completely false. The place IS a hotbed for human rights' violations. Two wrongs don't make a right, and we - as the supposed "Allies" - have no right to criticise the "barbarism" of regimes we oppose unless we set a better example.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Guantanomo Bay=consentration camps during hitler, stalin and other evil guys

 

[CptStern]

I've been poking around at the Gitmo stuff available, and it seems to be a mix between horror stories and accounts that treat it like a resort. It's likely that it falls somewhere in between.

And this time around, if you can look past the normal political rhetoric, I think Bush actually has a point. Many of the reports from the insides of Gitmo are from released prisoners. These guys were stuck in a prison often half way around the world from their home and we expect them to come out with glowing reports? Whens the last time you met a convict who said his cell "really wasn't that bad." I can't imagine that they're really being all that objective.

Second point is just against Amnesty International, and their comparison of it to the Gulag. This is just absolutely ridiculous. Even if the conditions approached the total hell that was the Soviet Gulags (I'd bet serious stakes that its not), then the sheer size difference between the two operations preclude any comparisons. It would be like comparing Columbine to the Holocaust.

the comparison is sound


here are the de-classified FBI documents

here are the DIA documents


here are the army records


here are the Dept of Defense documents




here are all the documents at a glance

 

[T.H.C.138]

I like how everyone ignores the SLOW BEHEADINGS these ****s like to perform on helpless people..

or the general cruel,animalistic attitudes throughout the middle east..USA is sooo much more evil..

making those poor people jerk off in front of everyone..or other humiliating(not permanent death or maiming) "tortures",how evil..

pansies should be happy that we don't do the slow,sawing your head off with a KNIFE!!

for gods sakes if you want to kill through decapitation,use a frigging axe or something equal to an axe..

oh wait they want to TERRORIZE people into doing things their way..thats humanitarian,isn't it?

CptStern,no offense but you are doing exactly as the terrorists want.. and so are the people who argue with you..the EXTREMISTS of both sides play right into their hands..

dividing when we should be joining together..

anyways,I'm off to screw as many different races/religions as I can in the hopes that it will help make us all HUMAN instead of black,white etc..everybody!!! get to it!! have sex with your "enemies" so we all really will be family

 

[Foxtrot]

I like how everyone ignores the SLOW BEHEADINGS these ****s like to perform on helpless people..

or the general cruel,animalistic attitudes throughout the middle east..USA is sooo much more evil..

making those poor people jerk off in front of everyone..or other humiliating(not permanent death or maiming) "tortures",how evil..

pansies should be happy that we don't do the slow,sawing your head off with a KNIFE!!

for gods sakes if you want to kill through decapitation,use a frigging axe or something equal to an axe..

oh wait they want to TERRORIZE people into doing things their way..thats humanitarian,isn't it?

CptStern,no offense but you are doing exactly as the terrorists want.. and so are the people who argue with you..the EXTREMISTS of both sides play right into their hands..

dividing when we should be joining together..

anyways,I'm off to screw as many different races/religions as I can in the hopes that it will help make us all HUMAN instead of black,white etc..everybody!!! get to it!! have sex with your "enemies" so we all really will be family

I know, the US is terrible. They made them listen to rap music. ****ING RAP MUSIC! THOSE ****ING ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!

 

[CptStern]

I like how everyone ignores the SLOW BEHEADINGS these ****s like to perform on helpless people..

or the general cruel,animalistic attitudes throughout the middle east..USA is sooo much more evil..

making those poor people jerk off in front of everyone..or other humiliating(not permanent death or maiming) "tortures",how evil..

pansies should be happy that we don't do the slow,sawing your head off with a KNIFE!!

for gods sakes if you want to kill through decapitation,use a frigging axe or something equal to an axe..

oh wait they want to TERRORIZE people into doing things their way..thats humanitarian,isn't it?

CptStern,no offense but you are doing exactly as the terrorists want.. and so are the people who argue with you..the EXTREMISTS of both sides play right into their hands..

dividing when we should be joining together..

anyways,I'm off to screw as many different races/religions as I can in the hopes that it will help make us all HUMAN instead of black,white etc..everybody!!! get to it!! have sex with your "enemies" so we all really will be family

that argument is misplaced and has no real bearing here ..the US is a first world nation, it has to follow international law (or at least pretend to) ..the terrorists have no alligiance to any flag except the flag of fanaticism. Besides you dont torture the people you're supposedly trying to help

 

[CptStern]

I know, the US is terrible. They made them listen to rap music. ****ING RAP MUSIC! THOSE ****ING ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!

yup, ****ing animals indeed


I have hundreds of other examples, let me know if you want more

 

[^Ben]

I like how everyone ignores the SLOW BEHEADINGS these ****s like to perform on helpless people..

or the general cruel,animalistic attitudes throughout the middle east..USA is sooo much more evil..

making those poor people jerk off in front of everyone..or other humiliating(not permanent death or maiming) "tortures",how evil..

pansies should be happy that we don't do the slow,sawing your head off with a KNIFE!!

for gods sakes if you want to kill through decapitation,use a frigging axe or something equal to an axe..

oh wait they want to TERRORIZE people into doing things their way..thats humanitarian,isn't it?

CptStern,no offense but you are doing exactly as the terrorists want.. and so are the people who argue with you..the EXTREMISTS of both sides play right into their hands..

dividing when we should be joining together..

anyways,I'm off to screw as many different races/religions as I can in the hopes that it will help make us all HUMAN instead of black,white etc..everybody!!! get to it!! have sex with your "enemies" so we all really will be family

Weeeee, lowering yourself to the people your fighting is fun!

 

[el Chi]

I know, the US is terrible. They made them listen to rap music. ****ING RAP MUSIC! THOSE ****ING ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!

Yes, and white noise in sensory deprivation sessions.
Also electrocutions, beatings and all those happy little frolics that we find out about from time to time.
My personal favourite was female interrogators smearing the prisoners faces with "menstrual fluids". They weren't real fluids, but that only makes it slightly better.

 

[T.H.C.138]

soo terribly sorry for being off topic..

but it just pisses me off that both sides are so damn blind that they are willingly doing what Al-Qaeda and other groups want..fighting eachother instead of fighting them..

what does it matter that the USA is a "first world" country? or that these animals(terrorists not muslims) aren't? what the hell does that mean? I thought we all lived on earth..not some made up little "worlds"...

I would appreciate real answers..not links to some website

the point of this (I thought) is HUMAN RIGHTS!! not first/second/third world rights...one ****ing planet,one ****ing law..

anyways...

like I said earlier,impregnate your "enemies" and eventually we will be brothers and sisters..maybe some of the bullshit will stop then...

hopefully kim jong or GW don't blow us ALL to hell before then..

 

[el Chi]

what does it matter that the USA is a "first world" country? or that these animals(terrorists not muslims) aren't? what the hell does that mean? I thought we all lived on earth..not some made up little "worlds"...

Well the idea that we, as civilised, righteous first-world democracies, criticise certain regimes' torturous treatment of prisoners, dissidents, etc etc. whilst also having the terrible things happening in Guantanamo Bay is hypocrisy.
We cannot claim to be the torch-bearers of peace and freedom if we are no worse than those we criticise.

 

[T.H.C.138]

thank you for answering my little questions! I do agree with you about the hypocrisy,I just get a little upset by things like this..

I read in the paper yesterday that some sunni had blown up himself and some shiites(sp?) in a mosque,and do you know who the crowd inside and out of the mosque blamed and attacked?

the people that were outside trying to stop the terrorists from getting inside..makes sense,right?killed an Iraqi cop,who was defending them,as well as a few others..

riot and kill whoever in the name of Allah....that is what I have seen and heard about of the middle east since I was 2 and a half years old(I'm a few months from 30 now)..

we aren't the only ones who have/are doing things the wrong way..

 

[No Limit]

I like how everyone ignores the SLOW BEHEADINGS these ****s like to perform on helpless people..

or the general cruel,animalistic attitudes throughout the middle east..USA is sooo much more evil..

making those poor people jerk off in front of everyone..or other humiliating(not permanent death or maiming) "tortures",how evil..

pansies should be happy that we don't do the slow,sawing your head off with a KNIFE!!

for gods sakes if you want to kill through decapitation,use a frigging axe or something equal to an axe..

oh wait they want to TERRORIZE people into doing things their way..thats humanitarian,isn't it?

CptStern,no offense but you are doing exactly as the terrorists want.. and so are the people who argue with you..the EXTREMISTS of both sides play right into their hands..

dividing when we should be joining together..

anyways,I'm off to screw as many different races/religions as I can in the hopes that it will help make us all HUMAN instead of black,white etc..everybody!!! get to it!! have sex with your "enemies" so we all really will be family

You are 100% right, the people that chop off heads and such are complete animals. However, your argument using that to try and discredit this is absolutely absurd; if these people chopped off heads why not give them a trial and then be done with them? Why is the US continually releasing these 'terror suspects' with no charges filled against them after years of imprisonment and torture (as the documents show). Your argument is if a black guy kills a person we need to lock up all black guys and not give them a trial in the name of national security and throw in a little torture for good measure; it makes absolutely no sense. I also don't see how that fits in with the fact that the US is breaking internation law; which we are.

 

[Direwolf]

the comparison is sound


here are the de-classified FBI documents
here are the DIA documents
here are the army records
here are the Dept of Defense documents
here are all the documents at a glance

I'm aware of all those things, and I still don't think the comparison sound. The gulag work camps were industrial-sized murder; camps where men were expressely worked to death with absolutely no other intention. And at several times during the twentieth century they housed millions of people.

No matter what happens at Gitmo, no matter if absolutely every single person there is killed in the most negligent and horrible way possible (something far beyond the truth), it would still be a flyspeck when compared to the Soviet Gulag system. And Amnesty Internation should know that. It doesn't excuse what goes on there, but its somewhat like telling everyone that your neighbor is a nazi because he bumped into a Jewish guy.

 

[iyfyoufhl]

Well the idea that we, as civilised, righteous first-world democracies, criticise certain regimes' torturous treatment of prisoners, dissidents, etc etc. whilst also having the terrible things happening in Guantanamo Bay is hypocrisy.
We cannot claim to be the torch-bearers of peace and freedom if we are no worse than those we criticise.

but who desides who's ways are better or worse?

 

[Foxtrot]

yup, ****ing animals indeed


I have hundreds of other examples, let me know if you want more

Ya, because everything you read on the internet is true, and I am sure a site like that isn't biased at all.

 

[No Limit]

I'm aware of all those things, and I still don't think the comparison sound. The gulag work camps were industrial-sized murder; camps where men were expressely worked to death with absolutely no other intention. And at several times during the twentieth century they housed millions of people.

No matter what happens at Gitmo, no matter if absolutely every single person there is killed in the most negligent and horrible way possible (something far beyond the truth), it would still be a flyspeck when compared to the Soviet Gulag system. And Amnesty Internation should know that. It doesn't excuse what goes on there, but its somewhat like telling everyone that your neighbor is a nazi because he bumped into a Jewish guy.

Have you actually read the report:

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/usa-summary-eng

The report blasts the US but for you to say it is partisan about it means you didn't actually read the entire thing. Read all the countries on the side; the report also slams Canada, Australia, my home country of Poland (no they didn't forget Poland), Iran, North Korea and over 130 other countries. Taking one word out of there and using it to discredit the entire thing is insane. I am yet to see Bush or anyone else on the administration say how the report is false.

The Gulag reference was poor but I am yet to see it in full context, have you? If you did please post if when you see this, I don't have time to search around right now and didn't see it in the link I posted.