Bush World Aids plan: ...abstinence?

CptStern

CptStern

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out of the "you gotta be ****ing shitting me" file comes this:


Yahoo said:
"The Bush administration's $15 billion global AIDS initiative is emphasizing sexual abstinence and fidelity more than Congress intended, and that focus is undermining prevention efforts in poor countries, congressional investigators said Tuesday

U.S. teams on the ground in Africa and other poor areas told Congress' Government Accountability Office that the requirement that they spend a specific percentage of their money on abstinence is hurting some efforts to tailor prevention programs to countries' needs.

The directives are creating confusion and forcing reduction in some programs deemed necessary for pregnant women, high-risk groups like truck drivers and sex workers, married couples and sexually active youths, the GAO said.

The Associated Press reported earlier this year that the administration has handed out nearly one-quarter of its AIDS grants to religious groups, and has been aggressively pursuing new church partners that often emphasize prevention through abstinence and fidelity over condoms.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060404/ap_on_go_ot/bush_aids_money

utterly dispicable that they would try to slip in their agenda into a program to help prevent such a deadly disease
 
um, abstinence is the only way to truly prevent sexually transmitted diseases

edit: but yes, this is pretty stupid
a lot of the problems with STDs in certain countries of Africa stems from rapes anyway
Africa needs a lot more help than merely AIDS medicines and simple foreign aid
 
Icarusintel said:
um, abstinence is the only way to truly prevent sexually transmitted diseases

edit: but yes, this is pretty stupid
a lot of the problems with STDs in certain countries of Africa stems from rapes anyway
Africa needs a lot more help than merely AIDS medicines and simple foreign aid
Click to expand...


they need programs on abstinence? please that's completely unrealistic and completely insulting ..it's like they're saying: "well if you didnt have sex you wouldnt be in this mess"

it just surprises me to no end that bush can pretty much do anything no matter how dispicable and certain people will find some way to excuse it ...pretty pathetic if you ask me
 
CptStern said:
they need programs on abstinence? please that's completely unrealistic and completely insulting ..it's like they're saying: "well if you didnt have sex you wouldnt be in this mess"

it just surprises me to no end that bush can pretty much do anything no matter how dispicable and certain people will find some way to excuse it ...pretty pathetic if you ask me
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I should hope you're not calling me an apologist, since I clearly stated that this is a stupid idea.

What really needs to be done is for a proven, cheap, readily-available AIDS vaccine to be developed. But I don;t see that happening in the near-future.
 
Icarusintel said:
I should hope you're not calling me an apologist, since I clearly stated that this is a stupid idea.
Click to expand...

yes and no ..yes because it's not just this one issue ..and no because while I did see you did post this:

Icarusintel said:
a lot of the problems with STDs in certain countries of Africa stems from rapes anyway
Click to expand...

and this:

Icarusintel said:
What really needs to be done is for a proven, cheap, readily-available AIDS vaccine to be developed. But I don;t see that happening in the near-future.
Click to expand...

you're negating the damage bush's policies have by laying blame on other factors ..sure there's other factors but we're discussing bush's plan
 
CptStern said:
yes and no ..yes because it's not just this one issue ..and no because while I did see you did post this:

you're negating the damage bush's policies have by laying blame on other factors ..sure there's other factors but we're discussing bush's plan
Click to expand...
It could be said that you're taking too narrow of a focus on the issue by only looking at what Bush is doing and not taking into account what many other people are and are not doing. But that would be silly, wouldn;t it?
 
? that's the topic of discussion ...abstinence as a means of aids prevention
 
Abstinence education is all but a proven failure*, even in the US. Expecting it to work in Africa is retarded.
He's not only wasting 15 billion dollars, but also basically taking it away from AIDS sufferers in the process.
Bravo.


*Studies show that abstinence kids have about an equal amount of sex as contraception kids - but are much less likely to use protection when they do.

In other words, choosing abstinence education helps spread STDs and teen pregnancies that contraception could have otherwise prevented.

This plan is a naive faith-based initiative. You might as well air-drop 30 billion bibles.
 
Abstinence is a good deterrant but it's crazy-talk to expect people to do it.
 
Abstinence education to prevent STD's/pregnancy only works on a case by case education level- not in mass education. Programs should emphasize safe means, but at the same time always make students aware that abstinence is the only way to really be 100% safe.
 
condoms don't help with aids unfortunately

the aids virus is small enough that it will transmit through the rubber's pores
 
Flyingdebris said:
condoms don't help with aids unfortunately

the aids virus is small enough that it will transmit through the rubber's pores
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WhAT!?
 
Ikerous said:
WhAT!?
Click to expand...

it's a new mutation.. i heard that if someone with AIDS even looks at you, it can transfer as a form of electromagnetic radiation right into your retina!
 
Nat Turner said:
it's a new mutation.. i heard that if someone with AIDS even looks at you, it can transfer as a form of electromagnetic radiation right into your retina!
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Are scalar waves involved? D:!
 
not to say I'm supporting Bush's plan, but what do you thing should be the course of action taken cpt.Stern?
 
Flyingdebris said:
condoms don't help with aids unfortunately

the aids virus is small enough that it will transmit through the rubber's pores
Click to expand...

Haha, what playground did you pick that factoid from?

Studies on couples where one partner is infected show that with consistent condom use, HIV infection rates for the uninfected partner are below 1% per year.
http://www.wpro.who.int/media_centre/fact_sheets/fs_200308_Condoms.htm

According to a 2001 report by the National Institutes of Health, correct and consistent use of latex condoms reduces the risk of HIV/AIDS transmission by approximately 85%.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/stds/condomreport.pdf
 
Icarusintel said:
I should hope you're not calling me an apologist, since I clearly stated that this is a stupid idea.

What really needs to be done is for a proven, cheap, readily-available AIDS vaccine to be developed. But I don;t see that happening in the near-future.
Click to expand...
The problem is - there is no known cure for any virus, and HIV is going to be one of the toughest things to cure if they ever learn to cure any viruses.

AIDS (or HIV virus type 1 or 2) destroys your immune system. HIV doesn't actually kill you, it just makes it so that your body has no method of fighting any germs, and if you get sick from anything you will die. It makes you susceptible to every little germ. Germs are everywhere, we easily fight them off unless we come into contact with something highly contagious, like someone who was sick had been wiping his nose then shakes your hand or grabs the door handle at the store, things like that.

But over the course of many years, someone with HIV is doomed because even a tiny amount of germs can kill them.


I've seen a very recent TV special on AIDS in Africa and they are getting mucho funding for things like AIDS tests and education, and it's working wonders for those that are fortunate enough to have this health care and education, but not everyone there is. At least the people there with this huge AIDS problem are finding out WHO HAS IT, and who doesn't, so that they will not spread it any further. AIDS is a huge problem there in case anyone wasn't aware.

Here are some facts on HIV/AIDS like pertaining to Africa and the USA:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/hiv2.htm In all honesty, I supplied this link mostly because it has my name as the page header ;p

Whoever said that condoms are useless, that was what was originally thought, in fact that is what teachers taught us when I was in school back when HIV was first discovered. But now research shows they significantly better than nothing, because often they have prevented the contraction of HIV.


--The following is "just so you know more about Sexually Transmited Diseases (STD's)" and may seem off-topic, inapropriate, or useless information. Read on at your own discrection.--

Just so you know:cuz i care about you guys :) <3

Don't forget things like Herpes which can even be spread by oral sex, even kissing. It is important to wear a condom even when getting oral sex from someone who has Herpes.

Sex with a prostitute is a horrible idea because there is no cure for HIV or Herpes, so since they have sex with random people everyday, once they get one of these Viruses, they are stuck with it, and since they often have no career skills, and this is the only form of "work" that they are willing to do, some of them remain prostitutes. Infected. I have seen documentaries on prostitutes and the ones on the video refused to do any type of sex without a condom, even oral sex, but whether this is for the video, or regardless. Not all of them do. And is that really worth the risk?


In case anyone was wondering, it is merely a coincidence that my user name is VirusType2. I was originally known as VirusTypeD and it is just a name I thought I made up since I a huge Resident Evil fan, and they had the T-virus. I changed it to a 2 to make sure that it wasn't confused with Typed (in case it was lower case it would be Virustyped. WRONG. so i put virustype2. As if virustyped would have been any worse than virustype2 now that I recently found out that it is a type of Sexually transmitted disease! LOL
 
(not replying to anyone in particular)

Keep in mind that "abstinence" is only a small, insignificant fraction of the AIDS package, and "abstinence" is an agenda that speaks out to youths, casuals, and other sexually active people who shouldn't be sexually active... nothing to get riled up about, as the article blatantly fails to clarify or even mention.

Be extremely wary when you read some of those articles on the internet, because they're more biased than a sundial in a cave, and make you think all this crap that isn't anywhere near reason, just by leaving out "the point" of what people are doing, and smothering it in sour facts and ill events surrounding the situation.

Essentially, Bush is saying, "Oh, and if you're a youth or you shouldn't be having sex and getting AIDS, then don't." Nothing to get riled up about. That message needs to be heard loud and clear in those countries, and not enough money is being put out toward it IMHO.

I will also point out that Bush is only increasing the amount, because he understands the importance of the message to those countries. He isn't "the architect" of abstinence.

As to how it's supposed to work, here's a quote from an article on http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/04/AR2006040401628.html

The Office of the U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator requires that 20 percent of all AIDS spending go for prevention. Half the prevention budget must be spent to stop sexual transmission of HIV. Two-thirds of that spending, in turn, must be used promoting abstinence and fidelity.
Click to expand...
It's much ado about nothing - a controvertial 20% that isn't enough IMO - and then the article rambles on and on and on about how a dime should have gone here to help this person from dying, or should have gone there to improve this other program, blah blah blah. I'm drowning in bias whenever I read anything about Bush on the internet, because Bush-haters inflate all these balloons filled with utter crap surrounding each.... and every.... situation. People who know read between the lines... and people who don't are angered at Bush, because they think they're reading doctrine.

This situation, with people complaining about Bush's endorsement of abstinence in the AIDS package, is a good example of a Bush-hating fiesta coming from a perfectly good and normal situation.
 
CptStern said:
it's like they're saying: "well if you didnt have sex you wouldnt be in this mess"
Click to expand...
Precisely. It's domineering, it's condescending and to think it would actually work is naive in the extreme.
The AIDS crisis in Africa is horrific, no doubt about it. But to say:
"Well you can solve it by cutting out one of the most inherent, enjoyable human experiences. Oh, and if you get raped, then bad luck I suppose."
Well, that's just nonsense. Encouraging people in such an impoverished continent to use protection is unrealistic as well - if people can barely afford to feed their families, are condoms going to take priority on their shopping list?
Sure, a lot of aid money goes "missing" due to corrupt governmental systems in certain nations. But at least if the aid money is initially intended to go towards something productive it's not a complete loss. And it's certainly no concrete reason to give up on aid.
 
Hmm, well the whole aids virus passing through condoms thing was just what i was told in sex ed class back in high school, never bothered keeping up on aids research. However there is no way in hell i'm going to risk my immune system and my life on the structural integrity of a glamorized water balloon. Its bad enough risking a baby, but my life too? Hell naws
 
Flyingdebris said:
Hmm, well the whole aids virus passing through condoms thing was just what i was told in sex ed class back in high school,
Click to expand...
They told you WHAT!?
 
no i never went to any catholic highschool, this was in public high school where they were teaching us about what the good brands of condoms were and what not
 
I heard AIDS started when some African had intercourse with a monkey.
 
I've heard the same thing in various sex ed classes (the condom thing, not the monkey :)) It might sound like scare-tactics considering the low probability of it happening, but even a low probability is a bad one when it comes to something as bad as AIDs.
 
One of the major problems with Africa is all the corruption. With the amount of aid sent to Africa on a yearly basis there is no reason that millions should still starve there. I don't remember the stats, but there is enough money sent there to feed every last starving African but so much of the aid is siphoned away because of corruption that it doesn't matter how much money we send. I know this was a little off topic with the thread being about aids and all, but it applies to a degree since money is involved.
 
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