Can climate change be stopped?

[Atomic_Piggy]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3980

FP doesn't think so.

 

[Icarusintel]

Shouldn't the question be: "Should climate change be stopped?"

I've yet to see a really good answer to that one.

*Waits for CptStern*

 

[Mr Stabby]

Well we could stop it, as we are the ones wrecking it. The process we use to wreck it just needs to stop. We aren't going to though

 

[staticprimer]

Watch Al Gore's movie. He gives several reasonable ways to stop it.

 

[Dynasty]

Generally speaking, it cant be stopped. It was always happening since the birth of the planet, we're just speeding up the process.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

He gives several reasonable ways to stop it.

From his personal jet....flying at 30,000 ft. Over the course of his life, I'd imagine he's left as big a carbon footprint as about 100,000 normal people.

I'm as big a environmental nut as anyone, but I'm just getting tired of these people telling us what and how to do things. 95% of them are just as guilty of the very envornmentally unfriendly acts they want us to stop doing/change....or are worse. They care only as far as it inconveniences their "very important" lives.

 

[Ennui]

We could slow it down; as at the moment we're responsible for its acceleration, that seems a reasonable goal.

We won't, though.

 

[theotherguy]

From his personal jet....flying at 30,000 ft. Over the course of his life, I'd imagine he's left as big a carbon footprint as about 100,000 normal people.

I'm as big a environmental nut as anyone, but I'm just getting tired of these people telling us what and how to do things. 95% of them are just as guilty of the very envornmentally unfriendly acts they want us to stop doing/change....or are worse. They care only as far as it inconveniences their "very important" lives.

There's nothing hypocritical about using energy to fly a jet around and tell people about the inevitable dangers of global warming. This fact is just thrown around to confuse people about the real issues.

The benifits of Gore flying around in his jet and giving seminars on climate change far, far FAR outweigh the amount of energy he expends to do it. The most important thing to do now is not promote individual conservation, but to convince government leaders to enact legislation which will reduce the national and global carbon footprints.

To slow global warming to a stop by 2050 will require 1 percent of the entire world's GDP per year. This is equivalent to the entire industrial output of Japan and Germany combined. These kind of resources can only be mobilized by industrial nations, and if powerful, political people do not make statements to convince world governments to take action, these funds will never be put towards climate change.

The longer we wait, the worse the situation gets, and the more money we will have to pay in the long run. The time for action is now. It will require decades of global initiatives, regulations and subsidizing new technologies; but reducing or eliminating climate change is a possibility within the grasp of our species, if only we would lift a finger to stop it.

 

[phantomdesign]

Global Warming . . . a lovely vague theory turned comspiracy theory turned even vaguer political issue. I guess FAR-leftists need something to believe in.

I've seen a few theories of ways to cool the planet or reduce carbon in the atmosphere. I'm sure it'll be possible some day. This is an issue for scientists, not politicians.

As far as resource management and other harm to the environment? I think that's a more realistic topic, unless you're in one of those extremist groups like PETA & or can't compromise between economics/need & the environment (while you yourself continue to drive cars, buy the products, etc).

 

[Lt. Drebin]

There's nothing hypocritical about using energy to fly a jet around and tell people about the inevitable dangers of global warming. This fact is just thrown around to confuse people about the real issues.

Yes, there is. Further, I never said he wasn't communicating real issues, nor is this a method of confusion. All I'm saying is that, for once, it would be nice to see some of these people practice what they preach, which he doesn't in most aspects.

For someone that does care about the environment, that's more than a little disheartening.

 

[lame-o]

Yes, there is. Further, I never said he wasn't communicating real issues, nor is this a method of confusion. All I'm saying is that, for once, it would be nice to see some of these people practice what they preach, which he doesn't in most aspects.

For someone that does care about the environment, that's more than a little disheartening.

Well, I haven't really heard of an eco-friendly jet plane... So what do you want him to do? Swim?

BTW, what's all this talk about "stopping global warming from affecting the next generation"? You mean you want to save OUR children so that THEIR children can get screwed by global warming instead? I don't see the difference really, so I say change the goal of reducing pollution to say, something like: "let's try to stop global warming from getting worse than it normally would every 10,000 years!" WOAHH! DON'T GO THERE COMPADRE!!

It's gonna ****ing happen whether you like it or not, and that's not the problem. The only problem is that it might hit the world harder than usual because of our polluting habits. But then again, even without pollution global warming usually brings about drastic changes in the environment that humans will not be able to just stroll through anyway, so beat the idea of a friendly and comfortable transition out of your head. Although reducing pollution MAY make it come gradually to allow humanity to adapt, there will still have to be conflicts, evolution, geographical change, massive migration, etc. And in some places it will be much more sudden and hostile than alot of people think.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Well, I haven't really heard of an eco-friendly jet plane... So what do you want him to do? Swim?

He owns PRIVATE JETS. No one is making him cruise around in a private jet. There's a difference between flying commercial with 200 people and flying on a jet with 5 people. This is about energy efficiency and a reduced carbon footprint. Read my posts before you comment.

 

[lame-o]

Do you drive a car to work?

 

[theotherguy]

Global Warming . . . a lovely vague theory turned comspiracy theory turned even vaguer political issue. I guess FAR-leftists need something to believe in.

I've seen a few theories of ways to cool the planet or reduce carbon in the atmosphere. I'm sure it'll be possible some day. This is an issue for scientists, not politicians.

As far as resource management and other harm to the environment? I think that's a more realistic topic, unless you're in one of those extremist groups like PETA & or can't compromise between economics/need & the environment (while you yourself continue to drive cars, buy the products, etc).

What's vauge about:

Given: CO2 causes warming in an open gaseous system.
Given: The Earth's atmosphere is an open gaseous system.
Given: The Earth's global temperature has been rising steadily for the past 200 years.
Given: The Earth's global atmospheric level of carbon has been rising steadily for the past 200 years.
Therefore: The Earth's temperature rise is correlated with increased CO2.
Given: Humans output most of the world's carbon dioxide. The level of human induced carbon dioxide has been increasing for the past 200 years.
Therefore: Human activity is correlated with increased CO2.
Therefore: The Earth's temperature rise is correlated with human activity.

?

 

[phantomdesign]

You're "therefore"s aren't so bad, except many of your presumptions ("given") are unproven, inaccurate. It all used to be "global cooling."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY[/youtube]

The primary problem is global warming has turned a political issue, NOT scientific, which means progress on the issue will be tediously slow. The issue is no longer addressed intellectually, but rather based on your political correlation or emotional influences.

Both sides pick and chose the evidence that fits their perspective (even the video linked, which has holes, but not nearly as many as global-warming activists). The burden of proof has shifted to those who discount global warming, while there is little evidence to support human caused catastrophic global warming is likely within a reasonable amount of time.

As with most political issues it becomes all or none & definitions become rather vague . . .
[1] natural climate changes vs. human caused climate change
[2] temporary climate change vs. permanent climate change
[3] slight climate change vs. catastrophic climate change
[4] noticeable climate change is likely to occur within the next 10000 years versus 100 years vs 10 years

Few (non-closed-minded) people deny global warming exists in the state of natural temporary slight climate change, but the other extreme lacks any sort of conclusive evidence and is mostly supported by political figures and random natural occurrences (hurricanes, floating ice, short-term climate change statistics). The point of all of this is there is insufficient evidence to show / prove that global warming is a serious enough issue to support the notions of greater governmental control (tyrany).

It is interesting however that I haven't heard much about “The Ozone” and CFCs in quite some time, I remember that used to be such a huge issue! Where are all the news reports and politicians now? Oh yea, that's right, it's pretty clear now that the Ozone grows/shrinks all the time!

 

[lame-o]

Haven't they gotten rid of most CFCs?

 

[Grandmaontoast]

there is no such thing as global warming it is just a myth spread about by scientists wat is really happening is that the world is changing its time periods. if you look back in history you can see that the world heats up and slows down by itself look at the definition of an 'ice age' it is that we are in an ice age if there is a certain amount of ice on the earths surface we are coming out of an iceage humans are just making it happen faster.

If it is really happening we could move the earth further away from the sun. WOULD THAT HELP?

 

[theotherguy]

It is interesting however that I haven't heard much about ?The Ozone? and CFCs in quite some time, I remember that used to be such a huge issue! Where are all the news reports and politicians now? Oh yea, that's right, it's pretty clear now that the Ozone grows/shrinks all the time!

No. The Ozone hole still exists and is still a huge problem. By banning CFCs, we ensured that the hole wouldn't grow too much larger, but the CFCs that we already released into the atmosphere will remain in the ozone for centuries, eating away at the O3.There is no natural process which causes the ozone to shrink, and no natural process which causes CFC levels in the atmosphere to increase. CFCs were literally unknown in the Earth's atmosphere before human activity dumped them into the atmosphere in industrial times. The Ozone Hole is obviously human caused, and congress was right to enact legislation immediatley to ban CFCs.

Unfortunately the undeveloped world has not got around to it yet, and CFCs are still being released into the atmosphere daily.

As for CO2, here is proof for my givens.
A simple experiment proving that the greenhouse effect exists.
Scientific History of the Greenhouse Effect
Keeling's Curve proves amount of CO2 is rising
Temperature and CO2 levels are highly correlated

Human-induced CO2 levels have been rising since the eary 1800s

CO2 is the largest contributor to positive climate forcing globally. Anthropogenic sources account for most climate forcing.

 

[theotherguy]

there is no such thing as global warming it is just a myth spread about by scientists wat is really happening is that the world is changing its time periods. if you look back in history you can see that the world heats up and slows down by itself look at the definition of an 'ice age' it is that we are in an ice age if there is a certain amount of ice on the earths surface we are coming out of an iceage humans are just making it happen faster.

If it is really happening we could move the earth further away from the sun. WOULD THAT HELP?

It's true that the Earth heats up and cools down continually due to variations in the Earth's orbit.

However, it does not heat up within a few centuries. It heats up within a few thousand years, generally. The rate of climate forcing we are seeing today is many thousands of times more than any natural ice-age process.

Not to mention, we are in the middle of a stable, higher temperature cycle. It makes no sense for the temperature to shoot up rapidly if it were a normal climate cycle.

Furthermore, solar activity accounts for less than 5% of global climate forcing. The other 95%? Atmospheric gasses. Guess which one is causing the most climate forcing....Co2. Guess who is the biggest contributor of CO2 in the world: humanity.

 

[Solaris]

Why are we even debating this.

theotherguy, as a fellow physicist enthusiast, I respect the lengths you have gone too, understand global warming and explain it to others. However, we're not climatologists, all we should need to know is that the overwhelming majority of climatologists believe global warming is a big danger and is caused by mankind.

That's all we need to know to support acting to stop it. Debating the science with an unqualified denier of global warming is pointless. It's pretty arrogant for them to say these scientists are wrong becuase of 10minutes google search they've done.

 

[Remus]

Shouldn't the question be: "Should climate change be stopped?"

I've yet to see a really good answer to that one.

*Waits for CptStern*

Yes climate change should be stopped (even if it is partly a natural phenomenon), simply because it is threatening our way of life. This might seem like a highly egotistical reason but it's as good a reason as any.

lthe overwhelming majority of climatologists believe global warming is a big danger and is made worse by mankind.

Fixed

 

[French Ninja]

No but we could make it go up and down at a natural pace.

But we won't.

 

[Qhartb]

Stop climate change? As in no more naturally occurring ice ages and warm spells? Why on earth would you want to do that to your environment?

 

[Dog--]

Every time I hear global warming, I can't help but think of the movie Waterworld... I mean... Come ON!

 

[Nemesis6]

Yes it's real, of course it's real. No doubt about it!




Can I see my family now?

 

[Jintor]

Stop climate change? As in no more naturally occurring ice ages and warm spells? Why on earth would you want to do that to your environment?

Stop our climate change. Earth's natural rhythm can do whatever the hell it wants.

 

[cabbs]

Stop climate change? As in no more naturally occurring ice ages and warm spells? Why on earth would you want to do that to your environment?

Stop our climate change. Earth's natural rhythm can do whatever the hell it wants.

Whats the ratio of people arguing about how to slow climate change to the people who are arguing about whether Climate Change/Global Warming can "be stopped"?

Here's a completely unnecessary analogy I just thought up:

Climate Change is like riding a track dolly towards an oncoming train. Its going to hit you eventually (the dolly is too heavy to pull off the track) but it would be a great idea to pull yourself to a halt, in order to delay the inevitable. Or better yet, move in the other direction.