Can enemy A.I. use physics as well?

[Roland Deschain]

Now we've how Gordon can use the awesome physics engine (throwing soda cans at combine soldiers. Take That).

But I'm wondering about the A.I.'s ability to use the physics. Are there enemies that can also use the manipulator and chug stuff at you. Will enemies chug stuff downstairs to squash you (unscripted of course, it's easy if it's scripter). Will enemies be able to chug stuff back at you (ie: soda cans, granades, boxes) [I really enjoyed the Nazic throwing back my grandades in Call of Duty].

I don't think any of the trailers and screenshots really answer that question and I don't think I've seen an enemy A.I. with a manipulator so far. THe closest so far is the soldier kicking in the door, but I hope they can do more complex interactions.

 

[Petabyte]

I think the combine will pretty much be yours to "manipulate". No pun intended, but I'm guessing the bastards will have a few sneaky tricks up their sleeves.
By the way, Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the first I believe to have Nazis throwing back grenades.

 

[Vegeta897]

I think the combine will pretty much be yours to "manipulate". No pun intended, but I'm guessing the bastards will have a few sneaky tricks up their sleeves.
By the way, Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the first I believe to have Nazis throwing back grenades.

He is not talking about you being able to manipulate enemies.

What pun?

He is asking if the AI will be able to use the physics. The answer is yes. They will see opportunity to hurt you or any other NPC using the physics. An example we have seen is zombies kicking barrels at you.

They will also do anything else they can, such as use it for cover, or even set up cover by knocking something onto the ground.

Sure is going to be fun to see what the AI can do.

Oh, and the correct word is "chuck" not "chug"

 

[.5c0ut-WHoR3.]

I heard the head crab zombies.. throw barrels are other stuff at you...

 

[DvS]

World War II was the first to have nazis throw back grenades, if you pardon the anal retentiveness.

valve have made claims that enemy AI can make use of physics in that manner yes, but I'll believe it's unscripted when I see it.

 

[Neutrino]

He is not talking about you being able to manipulate enemies.

What pun?

He is asking if the AI will be able to use the physics. The answer is yes. They will see opportunity to hurt you or any other NPC using the physics. An example we have seen is zombies kicking barrels at you.

They will also do anything else they can, such as use it for cover, or even set up cover by knocking something onto the ground.

Sure is going to be fun to see what the AI can do.

Oh, and the correct word is "chuck" not "chug"

Thowing barrels, most likely. Looking for cover, definitely. But setting up cover from physics objects? Highly doubtful.

 

[guise]

i can vaguely remember a barrel rolling down the stairs towards you in one of the e3 2k4 videos (the short one) while you're shooting at a combine

 

[Roland Deschain]

Thowing barrels, most likely. Looking for cover, definitely. But setting up cover from physics objects? Highly doubtful.

Well, it's not too ridiculus. If you can program an A.I. to hide behind a box, and that box is thrown around (by manipulator, granade) it is not too much to ask the A.I. to go behind that box again.

A.I. building their own covers is streching it, but Valve is god, and god can do anything, therefore Valve can do anything.

 

[hasan]

They "claim" the AI is aware of the physics. but tbh I hvn't seen any sign of it anywhere in the movies or anything.

Zombies throw barrels, eh? well guess what, that doesn't prove anything, they can just be programmed to shoot a barrel if they see on in thier way, it doesn't men they are aware of the phyics.

It'd be interesting if the combine can take cover behind objects (i.e. trash bins .. etc) and be able to tell whether the object is still a valid cover or not, and find another cover in case the first one gets knocked off or something.
or if they can realize they can hurt you with physics rather than just bullets, i.e. make use of traps (instead of shooting you, they have to shoot something above you to make another thing fall on you . for example)

If they can do stuf like that -or close to that- then I will believe that they are aware of the physics.

 

[Petabyte]

He is not talking about you being able to manipulate enemies.

What pun?

Actually, there was a pun intended, but- uh.. nevermind, I'm not really funny.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

From the videos, here's all we know:

-Combine soldiers can push/roll barrels and other objects
-Zombies can kick/hurl barrels with a lot of force
-Striders can kick cars
-Antlion Guards shove objects
-Antlion Guards, striders and hydras all fling/toss thier prey's ragdolled bodies

They "claim" the AI is aware of the physics. but tbh I hvn't seen any sign of it anywhere in the movies or anything.

Zombies throw barrels, eh? well guess what, that doesn't prove anything, they can just be programmed to shoot a barrel if they see on in thier way, it doesn't men they are aware of the phyics.

Well, of course. That would require the AI to have very complex logic along with human-level problem solving skills and intelligence.

But if they act like they understand physics, even if they don't, does it really make much difference to the game?

It'd be interesting if the combine can take cover behind objects (i.e. trash bins .. etc) and be able to tell whether the object is still a valid cover or not, and find another cover in case the first one gets knocked off or something.

I'm fairly certain that they can do that. They take cover behind non-fixed barrels in a few of the vids.

or if they can realize they can hurt you with physics rather than just bullets, i.e. make use of traps (instead of shooting you, they have to shoot something above you to make another thing fall on you . for example)

This one's a little less likely. The enemies won't think "If I shoot that plank, the paint cans on top of it will fall and hit Gordon's head"

But, as shown by the striders in E3 2004, they will try to shoot things near the player, like pillars, causing nearby damage and maybe having them land on him. They'll attack the pillars when gordon is near them,, but they won't understand that knocking over pillars will make them land on him.

If they can do stuf like that -or close to that- then I will believe that they are aware of the physics.

So, the enemies are not technically aware of the physics and how they work, but they will act as though they do, which is what matters.

 

[Roland Deschain]

There should be brain-combine that can manipulate physics with their minds. Doom 3 did that with the huge women spiders with them using telekinesis to throw objects at you and if D3 can do it than HL2 should be able to do it with it's eyes closed.

 

[Vegeta897]

From the videos, here's all we know:

-Combine soldiers can push/roll barrels and other objects
-Zombies can kick/hurl barrels with a lot of force
-Striders can kick cars
-Antlion Guards shove objects
-Antlion Guards, striders and hydras all fling/toss thier prey's ragdolled bodies

All that says is that NPC's are physically in the world...

Sorry but.. We already knew this...

We are discussing how the NPC AI can use phsyical objects intellegently. Such as kicking or throwing something at you, or finding cover by analyzing the various objects in the map.

 

[Steven Q Urkle]

medal of honor was the first to have nazis throw back nades

 

[Pitbul]

Well, it's not too ridiculus. If you can program an A.I. to hide behind a box, and that box is thrown around (by manipulator, granade) it is not too much to ask the A.I. to go behind that box again.

A.I. building their own covers is streching it, but Valve is god, and god can do anything, therefore Valve can do anything.

VALVe isn't God, VALVe cant even set a deadline and meet it. God built the world in 7 days, it would have tookin VALVe 6+ years to get the idea of making the world circular.

You have been given the award for the most fanboyist, gheyist, stupidist thing ever said. Congrats...moron.

 

[Vegeta897]

VALVe isn't God, VALVe cant even set a deadline and meet it. God built the world in 7 days, it would have tookin VALVe 6+ years to get the idea of making the world circular.

You have been given the award for the most fanboyist, gheyist, stupidist thing ever said. Congrats...moron.

Ok... what the f*ck is that?

Can anyone explain?

 

[A2597]

yes, the AI will use physics to their advantage, either to throw at you, move your cover (Like shoot a barrel to move it that you were hiding behind) etc.

 

[Roland Deschain]

VALVe isn't God, VALVe cant even set a deadline and meet it. God built the world in 7 days, it would have tookin VALVe 6+ years to get the idea of making the world circular.

You have been given the award for the most fanboyist, gheyist, stupidist thing ever said. Congrats...moron.

Ok, either I steped on some religious fanatic toe or you really had some bad day. There is a thing called sarcasm and comic relief, you know. If you can't take light jokes without blowing your top, well, a internet forum is not a place for you.

Jeez.

 

[Petabyte]

I don't know if this has been answered before, but will you be able to lift a light box up with a dead body on it using the manipulator?
The manipulator also has a weight limit, right? Well than how is it that it can pick up a heavy barrel but not a measly headcrab- Manipulator gun not so good with organic matter?

 

[Illegal Amigo]

I saw in a physics test bink taht it lifted a body. I'm not sure if that's in-game or actually just a physics test.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I don't know if this has been answered before, but will you be able to lift a light box up with a dead body on it using the manipulator?
The manipulator also has a weight limit, right? Well than how is it that it can pick up a heavy barrel but not a measly headcrab- Manipulator gun not so good with organic matter?

Yep, it can't affect organic matter. It can affect wood though, like crates.

 

[Petabyte]

I guess that would make sense then, thanks.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Yep, it can't affect organic matter. It can affect wood though, like crates.

It can be modded to interact with anything, but I think HL2 will just let you interact with certain object, although the thought of chucking the dead combines at striders is rather appealing.

 

[Citizen 1150421]

i am pretty sure that the combine can create cover. for example you enter a room with 3 combine soldiers. and there is one table. a couch and a strong crate

one combine will knock the table over and use it as cover.
the other might right behind the couch if it can
and the third will hide behind the crate. or just decide to go mono a mono with you

valve states that the AI is physics aware and is player aware. so if you are agressive the ai will be too and the npcs will be quick to the point
if you are passive the npcs will take their time and may or may not obey you

the A.i is most likely gonna be EPIC in this game. cause they have kick ass coders.

what would be cool is in one of the vides the early ones the player knocks stuff into the path of the combine coming to you in traptown 2003 i would like to see the AI get around the stuff you just threw down. .

 

[Lavrik]

I don't know if this has been answered before, but will you be able to lift a light box up with a dead body on it using the manipulator?
The manipulator also has a weight limit, right? Well than how is it that it can pick up a heavy barrel but not a measly headcrab- Manipulator gun not so good with organic matter?

You know the reason you can't pick up living matter is probably because its against their will and manipulator only works on objects that have no will or are willing to be used to pick up. Since the crab is not willing you can't pick it up.
My theory.

 

[Pitbul]

I Pawned Lazic

 

[B.Calhoun]

A.I. building their own covers is streching it, but Valve is god, and god can do anything, therefore Valve can do anything.

Except meet a deadline.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

whatever the fictional reason, having the mainpulator affect the living would make it into an ultimate weapon, and no-one would need to change to the others, because the enemies would be the ammo that they have shot at them.

Except meet a deadline.

That is part of god's plan for this world. It is a test of your faith and resolve.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Except meet a deadline.

Ahh, but God can be wrathful, and I guess Valve is torturing us for some sin or another. Every time you touch yourself HL2 is delayed further (that even sounds wrong to me).

 

[Glo-Boy]

Hahaha someone in this thread said the work "tooken".

 

[N0N1337H41]

If you can't pick up the enemies (within the weight limit of the manipulator), then I'll be instlling the very first mod that lets you. I understand that valve would be doing it for gameplay's sake, but it would just bug the hell out of me. Like other things such as no reflection in reflective sufaces and not being able to see your hands/feet, I respect valve's decisions but i would like it done differently. I honestly can't wait for the community to start modding on this game.

Btw, bot being able to pick organic matter up sounds a WHOLE lot like not being able to hold a gun and a flashlight at the same time...




Creating shitty gameplay tweaks ® id Software 2004.

 

[MetEoRA]

You know the reason you can't pick up living matter is probably because its against their will and manipulator only works on objects that have no will or are willing to be used to pick up. Since the crab is not willing you can't pick it up.
My theory.

That would make sense, because how could the gun pick up some certain matter (dead) and not pick up other (living). Unless weight limit, but if it can pick up barrels, and not headcrabs....that's got to be against the laws of physics or something. :upstare:
Wood is organic anyway....maybe not alive, but then you should be able to pick up dead bodies...

 

[Xenon]

Sry for not taking my time and reading through the Thread, i hope someone has not said this before.
I bet you all remember the Combine Gunship tha Gordon shot down in the E3 2k3 video, and we saw it crashing into cars and pushing them away with amazing force, probably even squashing Gordon under a car.

So the Gunship take effekt in the Physics, maybe when you shoot one down, you are so lucky that it hits a band of combines, or even a Strider and effectively knocking it over.

 

[Kazuki_Fuse]

By the way, Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the first I believe to have Nazis throwing back grenades.

Nah nah nah, Dark Forces 2 had Gammorean Gaurds that threw grenades back at you.

 

[Erotic_John]

Will enemies be able to chug stuff back at you (ie: soda cans, granades, boxes) [I really enjoyed the Nazic throwing back my grandades in Call of Duty].

Does your Grandad really appreciate that?
:naughty:

 

[hasan]

pitball, your reply was utterly stupid and totaly uncalled for.
You do realize that replying to such comments will stirr up anti religious comments don't you?? anywayz, take it as a lesson for now.

and please guys, stop this religious flamewar. anywaz.

-Combine soldiers can push/roll barrels and other objects
-Zombies can kick/hurl barrels with a lot of force
-Striders can kick cars
-Antlion Guards shove objects
-Antlion Guards, striders and hydras all fling/toss thier prey's ragdolled bodies

soldiers can push barrels? I don't remember them doing that in any of the vids, but it's not aboutpushing stuff, it's about using them to thier advantage. That's what AI should do.

The A.I. is always unaware of anything, it just appears to us to be so. They shoot bullets, but they don't know why .. you know.

What I was talking about, is using the physics to thier advantage.

 

[garg]

Does your Grandad really appreciate that?
:naughty:

hahah!1

 

[Mechagodzilla]

soldiers can push barrels? I don't remember them doing that in any of the vids, but it's not aboutpushing stuff, it's about using them to thier advantage. That's what AI should do.

It was in a very breif part of the E3 2004 pre-show video. A combine kicks a flaming barrel and it rolls down some stairs towards Gordon.

 

[dream431ca]

Well..I hope they throw things back or something because I would very much like that.

 

[Animal]

pitball, your reply was utterly stupid and totaly uncalled for.
You do realize that replying to such comments will stirr up anti religious comments don't you?? anywayz, take it as a lesson for now.

and please guys, stop this religious flamewar. anywaz.


soldiers can push barrels? I don't remember them doing that in any of the vids, but it's not aboutpushing stuff, it's about using them to thier advantage. That's what AI should do.

The A.I. is always unaware of anything, it just appears to us to be so. They shoot bullets, but they don't know why .. you know.

What I was talking about, is using the physics to thier advantage.

What the hell do you expect!? Even the most advanced AI in the world used in robotics isn't aware of it's purpose. Are you that stupid that you think valve can code sentience into enemies in a game, or are you joking?

The best they can do is code simple responses to stimuli:

Stimuli - A zombie's detection box makes contact with the detection box of a barrel.

Response - Zombie kicks barrel in players direction.

The zombie doesn't know why it kicked the barrel, hell it doesn't even know it has kicked a barrel. All it is doing is executing a certain line of code triggered by the stimuli. Who care if it knows what it's doing, as long as it gives the illusion it does.