Canada exports SlutWalks to the US

eh,people,rape is the act of sex imposed on others whitout theyr consent,and thats a crime,and I think it doesnt matter how the woman was wearing or if she was drunk and flashing her bare ass on the street,it still a crime you know that things that are not allowed to happen

is like if man tryes to rape you but you say that you are not gay but them the man rapes you anyway and them people say to you "well you where asking for it cuz you looked a bit gay"

so yeah the whole thing on blaming womans for "asking for it" is cuz is still a crime

is like if someone get mugged but them the police say is his fault cuz he was wearing a shirt saying he hates materialism or something like that
Click to expand...

Really? I entered this neutral but from my point of view no one is blaming the rape victims. To suggest that shows that you haven't understood the argument. They being realists and in the real world there are ways to reduce your chance of being harassed. I think to not tell people about this is silly. However by point this out you are NOT blaming the victim, nor are you exonerating the perpetrator, simply pointing out what is true in real life.
While what this cop said should not be true in an ideal world it is true in this world and he should not be be made a scape goat for saying what is true.
 
Stylo said:
Yeah, I don't think Yorick is referring to EVERY woman that dresses THE SLIGHTEST BIT SEXY.

I think he's referring to the ones that go around in practically nothing and act like total whores while they're out. I mean, I kinda see his point, these types of women pretty much objectify themselves.

He's not saying it's entirely a woman's fault for dressing sexily, he's saying that slutty women are rapist attractors.
Click to expand...

I think this is an awful post.

Yorick said:
I was mugged/jumped once and it was entirely my own damn fault for being on the phone and not paying attention.
Click to expand...

Why is that your fault?
 
But what would have happened if you weren't on the phone? You scale a nearby wall and make a daring escape? Notice the oncoming attack and karate chop into submission? In any case the law does not consider "causation" the same as "fault".
 
Yorick said:
It could have easily been avoided.
Click to expand...

Could it? Sulk's right. Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not women dressing provocatively induces 'rape'. It's completely unrelated. I think it's a severe mistake to stand too firmly on one side of the fence or the other, because how do you know what compels a rapist to act? Perhaps the common rapist prefers the timid, well-dressed woman with barely any exposure? I don't know, and neither do you. Neither does this stupid policeman. To say it is the "fault" of the victim is wrong and ignorant.

I think the worst thing to come out of this thread is the casual usage of "whore" and "slut" and their uses. I mean, get over yourselves. They're so ****ing derogatory and stigmatising.
 
It's recommended not to talk on your phone because you get distracted. If you are more aware, you can just try to avoid the potential mugger entirely, by quickly walking away. Example: One of my friends was out running at night once. He was at an intersection waiting for a light change and noticed a dude coming toward him suspiciously (e.g. pretending not to be stalking him whenever cars passed by). So my friend was like "wtf it looks like this guy is going to try to mug me" and ran away. If he were listening to music or on the phone, he might not have been paying attention enough to notice the guy.

I personally take the university shuttle home at night instead of walking. I would prefer walking home and in an ideal world everyone could go all "take back the night," but realistically it'd be stupid to walk home alone in the middle of the night. That's why you're advised not to do it. Not because it's your fault, but because you could easily avoid that risk.

[edit] To clarify - on the rape issue, I'd agree that unless you can prove a connection to the level of "muggers tend to mug people at night", it wouldn't make sense to "advise" about it. Someone else mentioned self-defense classes, which I think would be better to suggest.
 
Samon Fish said:
I think the worst thing to come out of this thread is the casual usage of "whore" and "slut" and their uses. I mean, get over yourselves. They're so ****ing derogatory and stigmatising.
Click to expand...

I think the worst thing to come out of this thread are all these left-field metaphors attempting to explain flawed logic.

"Prostitutes are a lot like the KKK..."

This discussion IS rather black and white. As an officer of the law, the original offender was a full of shit asshole for spouting off victim-blame. It is entirely legitimate to teach people methods of staying safe from harm, by suggesting to them to travel in groups, taking buses rather than walking, and knowing how to call for help. "Don't dress like sluts," on the other hand, is a boorish, idiotic comment that has no place coming from anyone, particularly not an officer. The demeaning rhetoric and the wording of the comment place blame on rape victims, which is offensive and ignorant.
 
Yorick said:
It could have easily been avoided.
Click to expand...

How does that make it "entirely your own damn fault?" I can only assume you were trying to make an analogy to this issue, so is it "entirely" theirs when they're raped for not trying to "avoid" it?

Sorry but, if I'm making a strawman here, you practically handed me the ****ing straw.
 
Samon Fish said:
I think the worst thing to come out of this thread is the casual usage of "whore" and "slut" and their uses. I mean, get over yourselves. They're so ****ing derogatory and stigmatising.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we really need to get over ourselves, using the word slut when talking about a protest that calls itself Slutwalk. And as if we, on hl2.net, have always spoken with respect to each other, let alone with respect to people not even part of the site.
 
I like how we've gone full circle in this thread and people are back to making "LOLWTF YOU CAN'T BLAME THE VICTIM!?!?!" posts.

I thought we'd resolved that nobody in this thread is actually seriously blaming victims of crime for the crime.
 
Indeed. I'm not sure everybody here is on the same page. If anybody in this topic has said that the hypothetical woman would be at "fault" for dressing like a slut, I'm pretty sure that wasn't intended as saying rape would be justified or that the girl got what was coming to her, which is ridiculous. For lack of better terminology, I believe all we've been discussing is causal (OR COROLLARY?!?!) effects. Viper and Kadayi have summed up my thoughts more eloquently than I've been able to, so there you have it.

I just wish people on this board would give the benefit of the doubt on such things before propping up their soapbox and ensuing with the "DEAR LORD, I AM SO ASHAMED OF YOU, HL2.NET" speeches.
 
CptStern said:
acting like a non whore invites non consensual sex

you're still blaming the victem Yorick albeit more subtly now
Click to expand...
28 years in jail for a ****ing 15-year old? ****ing hell, what's with these people? I'm sure he will be a very productive and enlightened citizen when released aged 43. In Sweden he would get like 2-3 years in juvenile care or something (not saying that's right either BTW).
 
Sentencing for rape is all over the ****ing map in this country. A fifteen year old can get 20-30 years while I've seen grown men walk away with only a few years for multiple cases. There doesn't seem to be any kind of consistency applied unless some special legal person on this forum knows better.
 
As long as a woman is taking the precautions to not put herself in a dangerous situation or area of town she can dress however she want and not be doing anything wrong or foolish at all.

But taking those precautions is completely separate from the way she dresses, and they're mistakes that anybody can accidentally make even without realizing it.

Just like those people who accidentally take a bad turn in a wrong neighborhood and they get murdered for it.
 
Erestheux said:
"Prostitutes are a lot like the KKK..."
Click to expand...
Hey whoa now. I'm all for completely ****ing up a paraphrase, but I think you're taking it a bit far.

But deep down I know you're trolling Erestheux, so it's all good.
 
Raziaar said:
As long as a woman is taking the precautions to not put herself in a dangerous situation or area of town she can dress however she want and not be doing anything wrong or foolish at all.

But taking those precautions is completely separate from the way she dresses, and they're mistakes that anybody can accidentally make even without realizing it.

Just like those people who accidentally take a bad turn in a wrong neighborhood and they get murdered for it.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that women who dress like sluts sometimes do so on accident? I also fail to see how "taking proper precautions" to avoid garnering a rapist's attention has nothing to do with the way one dresses.
 
Krynn72 said:
Are you saying that women who dress like sluts sometimes do so on accident? I also fail to see how "taking proper precautions" to avoid garnering a rapist's attention has nothing to do with the way one dresses.
Click to expand...

What? No I'm saying that the REAL precautions they need to take is avoiding shady areas where crimes might occur... not dressing more conservatively as is suggested.

You know... at what point do you stop suggesting that a woman dress more conservatively? Whose standards do you follow? Someone who gets the urge from someone dressing mildly skimpily might still get those very same urges from someone wearing a simple blouse. There's no magic line where you can say that a woman won't get targeted because she's dressed a certain way. You know, a woman in normal jeans and a shirt can look pretty ****ing sexually appealing, certainly enough to rouse myself... and definitely able to arouse a rapist who would act on such urges.

So I ask, for those of you saying women need to dress less trampy, at what point do you stop tossing on layers of clothing? Cause in my opinion a woman wearing tight jeans and a tight shirt is way more sexually provocative than the clothing a street walker wears. And you know, some of those dresses women wear out on the town are really ****ing sexy... way sexier than just their ass hanging out from short shorts. They should stop wearing that stuff too huh?

There seems to be a huge ****ing fetish culture around female school uniforms... those girls shouldn't wear those to avoid victimization.

Do you understand? It doesn't ****ing matter what a woman wears, clothing of all types are going to be a trigger for somebody. Whose ****ing standard of modesty and dress sense should women follow? Who should they get their conservative dress code from? It's a good thing most women in the 1800's covered their ankles, because that drove men ****ing WILD with lust. I wonder how many women got raped because they accidentally flashed an ankle.
 
Raziaar said:
You know... at what point do you stop suggesting that a woman dress more conservatively?
Click to expand...

Somewhere in between whale-tailing mini-skirts with nips blasting through their tank tops and eye-only cloth bags. Don't pretend that just because there is no clear definition of what appropriate dress is that it means there are no wrong answers in regard to what increases/decreases your risk factors. Just like with nutrition, there is no one perfect way of eating that negates the occurrence of any health issue, but we know for a fact that eating certain ways can drastically increase your risk of heart attacks. There is a good middle ground somewhere in the spectrum, and slutty is not it.
 
Krynn72 said:
Somewhere in between whale-tailing mini-skirts with nips blasting through their tank tops and eye-only cloth bags. Don't pretend that just because there is no clear definition of what appropriate dress is that it means there are no wrong answers in regard to what increases/decreases your risk factors. Just like with nutrition, there is no one perfect way of eating that negates the occurrence of any health issue, but we know for a fact that eating certain ways can drastically increase your risk of heart attacks. There is a good middle ground somewhere in the spectrum, and slutty is not it.
Click to expand...

Yeah but you ignore my whole point that what you think are the biggest "risk factors" in clothing is absolutely not the case on an individual basis in regards to what men find most appealing in the way a woman dresses. In the end it's about the criminal mind and not about the clothing at all. You can have a woman dressed however the **** she's dressed... in a suit in a dress in tight jogging clothing or whatever the hell she's in and you can have two guys, one who thinks she looks ****ing hot like that and really wants to **** her, and a guy who thinks the same thing, but he has a criminal mind and he wants to rape her.

At the end of the rainbow, it's about criminality... and clothing that provokes doesn't rest solely in the domain of risqué and borderline taboo. That woman in your middle ground of the clothing spectrum is just as likely to be raped by a criminally minded individual too... because maybe she looks damn good in the clothing she's wearing, even if it isn't provocative culturally.
 
I'm not ignoring your point, I addressed it specifically. Just because you don't avoid the risk of rape entirely by dressing more conservatively doesn't mean that dressing slutty doesn't increase the risk.
 
Krynn72 said:
I'm not ignoring your point, I addressed it specifically. Just because you don't avoid the risk of rape entirely by dressing more conservatively doesn't mean that dressing slutty doesn't increase the risk.
Click to expand...

http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf

xS3qN.png


Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing
· Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
· Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties, hardly provocative dressers.
· A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported
rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22%
involved such behavior (as simple as a glance).



Also study after study demonstrates that rapists do not select their victims by appearance, but rather by vulnerability and availability... and most victims are known by their assailants.


You guys are all just wallowing in myth and popular opinion, and need to start proving your statements that clothing increases the risk factor.
 
Absinthe said:
I just wish people on this board would give the benefit of the doubt on such things before propping up their soapbox and ensuing with the "DEAR LORD, I AM SO ASHAMED OF YOU, HL2.NET" speeches.
Click to expand...

That and read whole threads before making pointless echoed re-posts of already addressed comments!

But, oh well...
 
Excuse me, but I did read the thread. I'm a little annoyed that no one seems to be reading my posts, as if they did they'd realise I'm not trying to accuse Yorick of anything, but rather to clear up a point of distinction. Here, I'll quote something else he said early on.

Yorick said:
I'm not saying that the rapist isn't at fault since he's, you know, a rapist, but it kind of is the victim's fault, too, in cases like this.
Click to expand...

Please tell me - what's the distinction between saying "it's kind of the victim's fault too" and "she was asking for it"? I'm not trying to put vulgar words in your mouth, nor am I implying you're trying to dress up your misogyny with pretty words, I'm asking what the actual, semantic difference between those two statements is. From where I'm standing, they imply the exact same thing, and I'm getting a little fed up with people trying to say that no one has said what, in my view, was clearly ****ing said.

Please, if I'm mistaken correct me, but don't just tut at me like I'm deliberately missing the point.
 
Raziaar said:
Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing
· Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
Click to expand...

Unsurprising, given that its not the clothes that a rapist is interested in.

· Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties, hardly provocative dressers.
Click to expand...

Why not delve deeper into this claim?
44% of rape victims are under 18. 80% are under 30. The VAST majority of rape victims are not old.

· A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported
rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22%
involved such behavior (as simple as a glance).
Click to expand...

I have trouble believing that a woman who goes around dressed up in a hyper-sexualized fashion would not attract more attention than one who doesn't. I cannot find many studies on the subject to prove either way, and that one that you link to is extremely difficult to find the actual source. I'd like to see what their definition of "provocation" is, and how they gathered the information. If they just asked the victim if they led someone on, then the results are worthless.
 
I think 90% of all young women in these here states dress like sluts. If I see a single bit of flesh from below the neck, she's a slut.

I actually think that this attitude has been brought about by the turn our culture has taken (whenever the hell that was) to start wearing less...we're pretty much the extreme opposite of Saudi Arabia. It's those bloody slut magazines. Slut.
 
So people are advocating the Saudi Arabia way? That worked out SOOOO well. How about we just say that being lax with people who cannot control themselves is asking for this to happen, making you all rapists. That sounds more plausible
 
Thats weird, I was actually blasting Krynn and others and didnt even see your post. You do speak sense though and I see plenty of loose rocks lying around
 
GreatEmperor said:
Thats weird, I was actually blasting Krynn
Click to expand...

As someone who was just blasted in the ass, I feel I have the experience to say, y'all dumb. Y'all real dumb. The whole 'lot a ya keep on harpin' on the same 'ol misinterpreted point 'bout how we think that the very fact a broad might costume herself a as a trollop and that it would initiates an imminent rapin'. Now, y'all needs ta realize, that ain't what we sayin' 'ere. I say, I say, us humble men are merely tryin's 'ta say that it might'n increases y'alls risk, makin' yous stand out in that there crowd o' folk. Now if y'all can't stop yer yammerin' 'bout how we fellas are claimin' that how a gal might dress causes her to be raped, or that we's a promotin' cloth bag attire, or that we's suggesting in any way that the woman is at fault, or that we sayin' that all victims are chosen based on how they's dressed, well then I swear by this 'ere poorly executed, god awful mismash o' accents that I ain't gunna return to this thread just 'ta repeat meself again.
 
It's hard to believe I'm actually on Stern's side regarding this... but it's true. Nothing in this thread is going to change that.

Also, what Krynn?
 
Krynn72 said:
As someone who was just blasted in the ass, I feel I have the experience to say, y'all dumb. Y'all real dumb. The whole 'lot a ya keep on harpin' on the same 'ol misinterpreted point 'bout how we think that the very fact a broad might costume herself a as a trollop and that it would initiates an imminent rapin'. Now, y'all needs ta realize, that ain't what we sayin' 'ere. I say, I say, us humble men are merely tryin's 'ta say that it might'n increases y'alls risk, makin' yous stand out in that there crowd o' folk. Now if y'all can't stop yer yammerin' 'bout how we fellas are claimin' that how a gal might dress causes her to be raped, or that we's a promotin' cloth bag attire, or that we's suggesting in any way that the woman is at fault, or that we sayin' that all victims are chosen based on how they's dressed, well then I swear by this 'ere poorly executed, god awful mismash o' accents that I ain't gunna return to this thread just 'ta repeat meself again.
Click to expand...

Yall needs to simmer donna abowt this here picking on my old smell hound Krynn, hes done sick of it and saying that he himself could walk down the street in a mini skirt and be raped five times before he got to the corner instead of someone calling the cops. Because if that stuff DOESNT happen, than he would have to admit that the only real thing these women did was be hot (or just be a woman period) around assholes. The fact that rape is so frequent in Saudi Arabia is of course because the women need to be controlled further and excusing boys for lack of control is a recipe for social harmony. Also the sea is farting into the sky causing global warming
 
Why isn't Sweden on your list. They're the rape country of the western world.
 
So clearly it's cultural.

However, the distribution across age demographics suggests a rape impulse not particularly invigorated by sexual visual stimuli.

[edit] I don't think any of us can make any claims about how much more- or less-likely certain groups will be to self-report rape, so it's moot. Still, a good thing to keep in mind.
 
Bad^Hat said:
Um, that only accounts for reported rapes, surely.
Click to expand...

I believe it is. I don't know what it is in Saudi Arabia unreported rape percentage is (undoubtedly high) but the US's unreported rape is ~ 55%, putting a rough estimation at 0.465 cases per 1,000 people. To match that number Saudi Arabia would need more than 1,000% of all rapes to be unreported. Of course, its 1:40am and I'm a bit tipsy so maybe my math is wrong.

@Stigmata
The distribution across age demographics is 80% of cases have victims under 30 years old. How does that suggest what you say it does?
 
Saudi Arabia also has laws which strongly subjugate women, making it illegal for a wife to so much as disobey her husband. I don't think the definition of "rape" can be as black and white in a country that institutionalizes female submission.

Anyway, you were just replying to an off-hand example, so it's not like this really matters.

Edit: That last part sounds kind of awful now I read it back. I mean it doesn't matter in the context of this thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top