Canada: Liberal party stall same sex marriage bill

[CptStern]

well today is the day when parliament closes for the summer ...but the liberal party has promised to keep parliament open till they introduce the same sex marriage bill ...it's been given a green light by the supreme court in terms of the legality of the issue last winter ..yet the liberals have yet to table the legislation ...mostly because they're a minority government and stand to lose as many as 34 MP's if they push thru the same-sex bill ...which could lead to the minority government calling an election ..as the liberals wouldnt have enough seats

as usual harper and his conservative cronies are eargly awiting the outcome as they could have a powerplay on their hands



ahhh and I thought legislating a human right would be easy

 

[pvtbones]

you'd think it would, but then again it's like giving monkey's guns.

I like neither side personally.

 

[No Limit]

well today is the day when parliament closes for the summer ...but the liberal party has promised to keep parliament open till they introduce the same sex marriage bill ...it's been given a green light by the supreme court in terms of the legality of the issue last winter ..yet the liberals have yet to table the legislation ...mostly because they're a minority government and stand to lose as many as 34 MP's if they push thru the same-sex bill ...which could lead to the minority government calling an election ..as the liberals wouldnt have enough seats

as usual harper and his conservative cronies are eargly awiting the outcome as they could have a powerplay on their hands



ahhh and I thought legislating a human right would be easy

I don't know much about Canda's politics (so please correct me if Im wrong) but I don't think you guys want to lose the liberal majority. Strictly speaking politics I think this should be dropped if you really risk losing the majority. As much as everyone deserves this basic human right you (and the world) will have a lot more to worry about if the wacko right wing gains control of your government.

 

[Gray Fox]

Yeah, but wait a minut. That also means that the government is not supperted in this act by the majoroty of the people. As much as I'm for same sex merriage, a government should represent it's population in a fair way. So the liberals should adapt it, call for election and see if the majority still supports them or not. This may seem not a good idea in the short term, but in the long term it is important to stand firm in your believes and to be clear on what yoi stand for. Just look at what happend to the democratoc party when they started compromising to much.

 

[CptStern]

you dont vote on human rights

 

[Icarusintel]

you dont vote on human rights

then this must not be a human rights issue

 

[CptStern]

I don't know much about Canda's politics (so please correct me if Im wrong) but I don't think you guys want to lose the liberal majority. Strictly speaking politics I think this should be dropped if you really risk losing the majority. As much as everyone deserves this basic human right you (and the world) will have a lot more to worry about if the wacko right wing gains control of your government.

I agree ...but enough canadians are suspicious of the Harpers conservative party so it could go either way ...I agree that it's a gamble but under the conservatives stalling this bill would become priority #1

 

[CptStern]

then this must not be a human rights issue

the supreme court of canada has said it is ..so that ends that discussion

 

[Razor]

Human rights is not a party manifesto, it's a human right no matter how much the majority hates it.

 

[Icarusintel]

the supreme court of canada has said it is ..so that ends that discussion

well, if they're anything like the US supreme court then I wouldn;t listen to them
personally, i think gays should be allowed to marry (which isn;t very conservative of me, but then again i'm also pro-abortion) i don;t see why it's such a big deal, so long as they do their best to follow the vows i think anyone should be able to marry

 

[No Limit]

well, if they're anything like the US supreme court then I wouldn;t listen to them

Of course you wouldn't; the highest court of the law means nothing when you aren't willing to follow basic laws that our government must abide by.

 

[CptStern]

well, if they're anything like the US supreme court then I wouldn;t listen to them

so I guess you have no respect for the letter of the law? funny how your ilk went after saddam for breaking "the letter of the law"

personally, i think gays should be allowed to marry (which isn;t very conservative of me, but then again i'm also pro-abortion) i don;t see why it's such a big deal, so long as they do their best to follow the vows i think anyone should be able to marry

that's very enlightened of you

 

[A True Canadian]

As much as I wouldn't mind seeing this bill passed, the timing seems unreasonable. Not unless the Gomery Report cleans up the image of the Librals, and they are voted back into power will we see this bill being passed.

 

[CptStern]

they've promised to table it this summer, that's whty they havent breaked for the summer

 

[Icarusintel]

so I guess you have no respect for the letter of the law? funny how your ilk went after saddam for breaking "the letter of the law"

no, it's not that, it's just many of the recent supreme court cases i have been in opposition to their rulings, which seem pretty ridiculous, seem my thred from today about them and see if you agree or not

 

[A True Canadian]

It sounds too risky for me. It's not a case of shooting yourself in the foot, it's like blowing your leg off.

But they could spin this around and say that they're doing what's best for the Canadian citizens; that they're not afraid of the risk.

But then Harper will spin that around and say that the Liberals are reckless and acting out of desperation.



..But actually, now that I think about it. If the Liberals get this out of the way early, there should be less focus on it once the election comes.

 

[CptStern]

ya I saw it ...but it's a different scenario here ...the same-sex marriage bill is upheld by the canadian charter of rights and freedoms ...under equality rights ...it's self-evident


"Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability"

 

[CptStern]

It sounds too risky for me. It's not a case of shooting yourself in the foot, it's like blowing your leg off.

But they could spin this around and say that they're doing what's best for the Canadian citizens; that they're not afraid of the risk.

But then Harper will spin that around and say that the Liberals are reckless and acting out of desperation.



..But actually, now that I think about it. If the Liberals get this out of the way early, there should be less focus on it once the election comes.

I agree ..but the new budget has to be passed so if they get this out of the way they can go back to bickering about the budget

 

[Icarusintel]

ya I saw it ...but it's a different scenario here ...the same-sex marriage bill is upheld by the canadian charter of rights and freedoms ...under equality rights ...it's self-evident


"Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability"

where's the sexual orientation part?

 

[CptStern]

"without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability"

 

[Icarusintel]

"without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability"

ok, well, sex is not sexual orientation, they're two VERY different things

 

[CptStern]

ok, well, sex is not sexual orientation, they're two VERY different things

yes I realise that, that's why I said the liberal party has to table the legislation ...to change the language to include same-sex marriage. Here's the supreme court findings

 

[A True Canadian]

I agree ..but the new budget has to be passed so if they get this out of the way they can go back to bickering about the budget

The budget is more important anyway. I'd rather them argue about the budget than about the unity of two people.

ok, well, sex is not sexual orientation, they're two VERY different things

Why put the same word twice? It could mean both.

 

[CptStern]

The budget is more important anyway. I'd rather them argue about the budget than about the unity of two people.



Why put the same word twice? It could mean both.

thje budget will be hammered out despite this bill ...as is always the case ...however under Harper (methinks the liberals would lose in an election because of the scandels) this bill will be buried and it will be another decade before it's tabled again

 

[Icarusintel]

yes I realise that, that's why I said the liberal party has to table the legislation ...to change the language to include same-sex marriage. Here's the supreme court findings

eeek! that's long and there's too much legalese for me to read it, just let the gays marry, dammit!

 

[CptStern]

eeek! that's long and there's too much legalese for me to read it, just let the gays marry, dammit!

yes it is legalese-y ...dont have to read, just in case you wanted to ...and I agree, let them marry whomever they want

 

[falconwind]

woohoo... i think

little update for anyone who cares: http://ca.fullcoverage.yahoo.com/fc/breakingca/federal_administration/

essentially, the budget was passed and the commons voted to extend the summer session to vote on the same-sex marriage bill C-38. The Bloc Quebecois (seperatist) and the New Democratic Party (socialist) supports it. It could be voted on as early as next Monday. :thumbs:

And as a note to all those non-canadians out there, the ruling party is currently the Liberals, which is not the same as 'liberals' like in the US. The Liberal party is roughly centrist, which is why they themselves are split somewhat over C-38.

 

[dream431ca]

little update for anyone who cares: http://ca.fullcoverage.yahoo.com/fc/breakingca/federal_administration/

essentially, the budget was passed and the commons voted to extend the summer session to vote on the same-sex marriage bill C-38. The Bloc Quebecois (seperatist) and the New Democratic Party (socialist) supports it. It could be voted on as early as next Monday. :thumbs:

And as a note to all those non-canadians out there, the ruling party is currently the Liberals, which is not the same as 'liberals' like in the US. The Liberal party is roughly centrist, which is why they themselves are split somewhat over C-38.

I got two questions for ya.

I'm from Canada and I still don't understand the liberal here and the liberal in the US. What is the difference??

Also if the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP support it..what the about the screwed up Conservatives. Seriously, that party scares me. All they do is lust for power and they take every chance, no matter what to get into power. Even if Terrorists were to blow up the CN tower or something in Canada, they would use that as evidence as how corrupt this government is instead of helping the government resolve the situation. So WILL the Conservatives try to get the bill to be passed so they can force an election in the summer or the fall...I don't like that party at all.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I got two questions for ya.

I'm from Canada and I still don't understand the liberal here and the liberal in the US. What is the difference??

Also if the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP support it..what the about the screwed up Conservatives. Seriously, that party scares me. All they do is lust for power and they take every chance, no matter what to get into power. Even if Terrorists were to blow up the CN tower or something in Canada, they would use that as evidence as how corrupt this government is instead of helping the government resolve the situation. So WILL the Conservatives try to get the bill to be passed so they can force an election in the summer or the fall...I don't like that party at all.

The conservatives you described in canada are exactly like the liberals we have in the U.S. I guess the parties are just switched around.

 

[dream431ca]

The conservatives you described in canada are exactly like the liberals we have in the U.S. I guess the parties are just switched around.

Ok. But what is a definiton of a liberal to you and to the US?? Tried the dictionary found something like this:

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tolerant of ideas and behaviour of others, open-minded, open to new ideas??? what is it in the US that makes "liberal" a bad thing?

Sorry for Off-topicness..just need a simple answer.

 

[CptStern]

dont confuse the democrats with "liberal" ...they're not ...much in the same way that in canada the "liberal party" is actually closer to centre than leftwing (left of centre, not neccessarily left because extreme left is anarchy ..whereas extreme right is ...bush and crew)


the word liberal in the US is a buzzword staunch conservatives use to describe pretty much anyone who doesnt believe in their narrow POV

 

[Razor]

Ok. But what is a definiton of a liberal to you and to the US?? Tried the dictionary found something like this:

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tolerant of ideas and behaviour of others, open-minded, open to new ideas??? what is it in the US that makes "liberal" a bad thing?

Sorry for Off-topicness..just need a simple answer.

It is a bad thing if you're a believer that normal, everyday American's should keep their mouths shut and go along with everything their government tells them too.

 

[dream431ca]

I think this assosiates this thread perfectly.

http://www.airfarce.com/video/050128kh.ram

 

[The Mullinator]

All I can say is I am actually happy with the Liberal party right now. Preventing MP's from going on break until this is passed is an excellent idea and its just making the conservatives look bad. Its especially funny how the conservatives have now begun to blame the liberals for using the bloc when it was the conservatives just a couple weeks ago doing the same thing.

Conservatives at the moment = dying party

 

[Foxtrot]

dont confuse the democrats with "liberal" ...they're not ...much in the same way that in canada the "liberal party" is actually closer to centre than leftwing (left of centre, not neccessarily left because extreme left is anarchy ..whereas extreme right is ...bush and crew)


the word liberal in the US is a buzzword staunch conservatives use to describe pretty much anyone who doesnt believe in their narrow POV

Heh, the hypocrisy.