Canadian racism

[chimpmunk]

This didn't come as a big surprise, but this clip (http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-74-870-5015/people/rene_levesque/clip2) I found browsing the CBC website reminded me how Canada, in 2005, is still a colonial force inside its own borders.

First, even though it's almost 40 years old, this video is only one example of the way canadians treat their minorities, or should I say, their minority?

First, the clip itself, orangist influenced racism in its purest form:
<<I don't mind them (french canadians), i'm not prejudiced against negros either.>>.
And it's not like it's an isolated case: During WW2, after promising Quebecers they'd be spared the conscription if they elect the Liberal party as the provincial governement, the federal governement changes its mind and forces Quebecers to enlist and go die for England, even though Québec clearly expressed its opposition to the war.
Riots are started in Québec city against the conscription, canadian soldiers from Ontario shoot at the crowd and kill manifesters!

We could also think about the constitution (wich was brought back from England and signed by the rest of Canada without Québec's consent. To this day, Québec has not yet signed the constitution) and the (failure of the) lake Meech accord in 1987, where Canada refused to acknowledge Québec as a distinct society.

What about the sponsorship program? All this tax money the federal government illegally spent trying to prevent Québec from freeing itself from the confederation and becoming its own nation.

Last but not least, the October crisis in the 70's, when the independantist movement of the FLQ abudcted and killed the minister of work, Jean Lapierre, the army was deployed in Montreal and martial law was declared. During the time of the war measures, 500 persons where arrested and sent to jail by the army without trial on the only basis of their political ideas! This was the first and only time such a thing happened in North America.

The list goes on and on like when french schools were outlawed in Alberta. When Louis Riel was given a fake trial and hung because he was french and fighting for natives rights, his anglophone accomplice "escaped" (in fact, his escape was set up by the police), etc...

And it's not like Ottawa treats the natives better, they are almost forced to live in thoses "reserves" wich are nothing more than ghettos where most people are poor and jobless.

No wonder now even the western provinces want to leave Canada, because Canada is based on what used to be a british imperialist model.

 

[The Mullinator]

1. Don't view history as reasons for hating a group in the present. If that was a legitimate reason for not liking someone then Blacks today would be very racist against whites. France would not be allies with Germany. Heck the entire European Union wouldn't exist if people were to look at history the way you are looking at it right now.

2. Sponsorship scandal is a problem that all Canadians are unhappy with, and you can't say something like its a governments fault for not being from Quebec and treating it as a minority when in fact a majority of prime ministers past and present are in fact from Quebec or have had ridings in Quebec. The entire country is pissed off about the sponsorship scandal, they see that if it didn't happen in Quebec then it would have happened in another province.

3. The Western provinces want to leave Canada often because of two reasons, number one they feel they are not represented properly in the house, and number two because they are often forced to pay equalization payments so that provinces like Quebec can have an economic situation that is closer to even with the richer provinces.

The fact that a unique Quebec culture even exists today given what normally happens in history really does show just how bad things DIDN'T get for Quebec.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

OMG, you found racism in 1966! Call the presses, this is big news!1
But wait, white canadians were 'racist' against canadians who are also white?

The Riel trial may not have been just, but it happened well before the railway was complete. That's like calling America racist because they had slaves before Lincon.
Also, he was brought to trial because he started a rebellion against eastern canada and failed, not because he was french. That's a total gloss-over of the actual history of the event.

The 'scandal' part of the sponsorship scandal is that the money wasn't spent on unification, but rather disappeared. The project itself was not hidden. The prime minister who ordered it, by the way was the french canadian Jean Chretien. :O

I also like the 'almost' qualifier on the reservation comment you threw in the bottom.
The original reservation agreements were considered fair at the time, and although the reservations aren't great today, no-one is forced to live there in any respect. They choose to live there. I'm fairly sure the reservations are run rather independently of the government (that's their entire purpose, you see) so blaming soley the government for the poor maintenance isn't really valid.

All in all, you've really just listed confusion and a pile of random events that happened over thirty years ago.

Congrats on proving that Ottawa is a racist colonial superpower in 2005?

 

[chimpmunk]

1. Don't view history as reasons for hating a group in the present. If that was a legitimate reason for not liking someone then Blacks today would be very racist against whites. France would not be allies with Germany. Heck the entire European Union wouldn't exist if people were to look at history the way you are looking at it right now.

3. The Western provinces want to leave Canada often because of two reasons, number one they feel they are not represented properly in the house, and number two because they are often forced to pay equalization payments so that provinces like Quebec can have an economic situation that is closer to even with the richer provinces.

1. I was not using history to hate a group, If you tought there was any racism in my post, it wasn't intended. I'm not saying all canadians are evil and racist. In fact, most of them are normal people.
Also, history repeats itself, just think of the C20 law that was adopted just to make it harder for Québec to leave the confederation.

3. Québec also has economic interests in leaving the confederacy and is represented properly in Ottawa.
And the most important thing, Quebecers and Canadian are NOT the same people, we have a different culture, language, history, and so on...
Canada is not my country, I feel no attachement to it.

OMG, you found racism in 1966! Call the presses, this is big news!1
But wait, white canadians were 'racist' against canadians who are also white?

The Riel trial may not have been just, but it happened well before the railway was complete. That's like calling America racist because they had slaves before Lincon.
Also, he was brought to trial because he started a rebellion against eastern canada and failed, not because he was french. That's a total gloss-over of the actual history of the event.

The 'scandal' part of the sponsorship scandal is that the money wasn't spent on unification, but rather disappeared. The project itself was not hidden. The prime minister who ordered it, by the way was the french canadian Jean Chretien. :O

I also like the 'almost' qualifier on the reservation comment you threw in the bottom.
The original reservation agreements were considered fair at the time, and although the reservations aren't great today, no-one is forced to live there in any respect. They choose to live there. I'm fairly sure the reservations are run rather independently of the government (that's their entire purpose, you see) so blaming soley the government for the poor maintenance isn't really valid.

All in all, you've really just listed confusion and a pile of random events that happened over thirty years ago.

Congrats on proving that Ottawa is a racist colonial superpower in 2005?

The point was that all those things still happen now, and they don't seem so random to me, spending illegally millions of dollar or sending someone to jail because he is a member of the PQ isn't just random.

This racism isn't color based, it's language based. You think the comment the girl and guy did in the CBC clip is gone now? That's wishful thinking. I have experienced myself, canadian anti-french racism, more than once.
And, i must repeat, i'm not saying every canadian is racist, most of them are very tolerant (same sex marriages are a good example), but a large number of them still are (from what i've seen) and the governement is. I could give exemples but i'm tired of dropping dates. Ottawa is still aiming to assimilate Québec as it has always been.

I know that Jean Chrétien was a french speaker, but that didn't stop him from being a corrupt federalist. If fail to see you point. He was a francophone but spent illegally tax money to prevent Québec from gaining independance.
That's still illegal. And you seem to think I was not aware of his native language, wich is kinda strange...
The sponsorship program spent money illegally on "unification", all those canadians who flew to Montréal to make that "we love you" parade all had their tickets paid by the government, wich is not very democratic and a stupid waste of public funds.
And even if that whole program wasn't corrupted, i'd still be against it! I don't want my tax money to be used to put canadian flags everywhere, that's just insulting.

As for the Natives and their reserves. Of course they are "almost" forced to live here, they are allowed to leave. But where could they go? They have and under-average education (statisticly), they are poorer than the average and most of them have no job.
They're still free to go, as are people in USA's black ghettos, I don't understand, if they are free to go, why aren't they all millionaires or doctors living in Hollywood? They are free after all... Oh, yeah, maybe it's because of the conditions in wich they are put, wich makes it almost impossible for them to leave that place.

Ok, now time to leave.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I could give exemples but i'm tired of dropping dates.

Without examples this thread is a pointless rant.

You still don't seem to understand the sponsorship scandal at all. It was a simple theft of taxpayer dollars and racism had nothing to do with it.

Oh, yeah, maybe it's because of the conditions in wich they are put, wich makes it almost impossible for them to leave that place.

Again, they are not 'put'. You're making this sound like segregation, when it is very much the opposite. People living in reservations get tax breaks and other government benefits, similar to how our friends in the states have welfare. That is why they stay.
I'm not going to say that the system is flawless, but at the same time it's straight-up incorrect to say that it is in any way 'imposed'.
Poverty is everywhere, and if people had an easy cure to it, they would. But in the meantime, not everyone can be a millionare doctor in hollywood. (?)

To be frank here, let's look at your posts:
You rant about english people being evil and racist, you are inventing or at least misinterpreting history to fit that viewpoint and you keep refering to offenses that you refuse to specify, using them as sweeping generalizations about the evils of that 'race' as a whole.

Then in the end, you're obviously a seperatist who supports starting your own country just to exclude our 'harmful' cultural influence.

Under your loose definition, who's really racist here?

 

[Kangy]

I'd just like to ask what exactly Quebec has to gain at all from becoming its own nation in a world that is increasingly becoming very accepting, multilingual and culturally diverse? And what exactly would it gain in economic terms? I don't claim to know much about the economics of Canada, but I bet if they severed links suddenly with the rest of Canadian industry and business, it'd hurt pretty badly.

You've given an amazing 0 modern examples of this supposed racism, instead pointing at dubiously analysed historical examples and things you say without proof.

 

[dream431ca]

I'd just like to ask what exactly Quebec has to gain at all from becoming its own nation in a world that is increasingly becoming very accepting, multilingual and culturally diverse? And what exactly would it gain in economic terms? I don't claim to know much about the economics of Canada, but I bet if they severed links suddenly with the rest of Canadian industry and business, it'd hurt pretty badly.

You've given an amazing 0 modern examples of this supposed racism, instead pointing at dubiously analysed historical examples and things you say without proof.

Quebec believes that if it seperates, they will be supported by France. (In 1995, The french primeminister had Quebec's backing if they were to seperate)...now is not the case. First of all France is in Chaos. Second of all if Quebec were to seperate right now, they would want to keep Air Canada, Just for Laugh's Comedy Festival, and other major Canadian owned busniesses. Guess what: Not happening. If Quebec seperates, they will have to give up all Canadian owned companies to Canada, and they would have to make their own currency, their own goverment, their own Constitution, and guess what, they won't have enough money to do that. If Quebec seperates I see a massive riot in Quebec much worse than the one in France right now. Basically you'll see a swarm of people from Quebec wanting to get into Canada....basically destroying, the new country "Quebec" or "The federation of Quebec". Who knows, it might happen.

And I agree we need to really fix our Politics and give more power to the west in Canada. When an election is held most of the people live in the East, so it's really based on Ontario who becomes prime minister.

Bare in mind though, Canada is a relatively new country in respect to the United states and countries in Europe, We got our offical flag in the 1960's!! So a lot has to happen before Canada ever becomes a well set country in terms of Politics.

 

[$kelet0r]

i think i'll sum this up
the french lost - hence quebec is canadian and nothing else

 

[diluted]

The French need to quit whining, seriously. Yeah, the English pwned you hundreds of years ago, get the **** over it already.

 

[CptStern]

no offense but please shut up. We dont need any further comments like that to reinforce the negative stereotype of non french speaking canadians

 

[Sulkdodds]

I don't mind people speaking French but I don't want them to speak to me because I don't understand it. Is there something wrong with that? Or Sdsako bluergh bleaosd nunununun?

First, the clip itself, orangist influenced racism in its purest form:
<<I don't mind them (french canadians), i'm not prejudiced against negros either.>>.

You, uh, realise that everybody back then called black people 'negroes', right? So did Martin Luther King.

 

[Solaris]

I quite enjoyed touring Canada, and entering french speaking areas, it was so nice to use the powers of my GCSE French, in some where like that.

If the majority of quebecans want a seperation then I would support them.

 

[chimpmunk]

Quebec believes that if it seperates, they will be supported by France. (In 1995, The french primeminister had Quebec's backing if they were to seperate)...now is not the case. First of all France is in Chaos. Second of all if Quebec were to seperate right now, they would want to keep Air Canada, Just for Laugh's Comedy Festival, and other major Canadian owned busniesses. Guess what: Not happening. If Quebec seperates, they will have to give up all Canadian owned companies to Canada, and they would have to make their own currency, their own goverment, their own Constitution, and guess what, they won't have enough money to do that. If Quebec seperates I see a massive riot in Quebec much worse than the one in France right now. Basically you'll see a swarm of people from Quebec wanting to get into Canada....basically destroying, the new country "Quebec" or "The federation of Quebec". Who knows, it might happen.

And I agree we need to really fix our Politics and give more power to the west in Canada. When an election is held most of the people live in the East, so it's really based on Ontario who becomes prime minister.

Bare in mind though, Canada is a relatively new country in respect to the United states and countries in Europe, We got our offical flag in the 1960's!! So a lot has to happen before Canada ever becomes a well set country in terms of Politics.

First, you cannot stop a country from using "your" currency, it is not even decided by the PQ wich currency would be used, either a Québec's currency, the canadian dollar or the US dollar (as proposed by Bernard Landry).
As for the companies moving out, it is ridiculous, no company would ever give up a market of 8 million people, that's nonsense.

The support France was to give was especially a acknowledging Québec as a sovereign nation. Besides, it's not like the riots will go on forever and will not stop France at recongnizing(?) Québec as nation.

As for the riot you predicted, it's not going to happen, federalists will either move to Canada or just stay and learn to love their new country. Besides, acadians and french-ontarions might also immigrate to Québec.
A constitution and a Québec citizenship is to be made whenever the PQ comes back to power.

 

[chimpmunk]

Without examples this thread is a pointless rant.

You still don't seem to understand the sponsorship scandal at all. It was a simple theft of taxpayer dollars and racism had nothing to do with it.



Again, they are not 'put'. You're making this sound like segregation, when it is very much the opposite. People living in reservations get tax breaks and other government benefits, similar to how our friends in the states have welfare. That is why they stay.
I'm not going to say that the system is flawless, but at the same time it's straight-up incorrect to say that it is in any way 'imposed'.
Poverty is everywhere, and if people had an easy cure to it, they would. But in the meantime, not everyone can be a millionare doctor in hollywood. (?)

To be frank here, let's look at your posts:
You rant about english people being evil and racist, you are inventing or at least misinterpreting history to fit that viewpoint and you keep refering to offenses that you refuse to specify, using them as sweeping generalizations about the evils of that 'race' as a whole.

Then in the end, you're obviously a seperatist who supports starting your own country just to exclude our 'harmful' cultural influence.

Under your loose definition, who's really racist here?

Ok, I'll get with some personal experiences. How common you think it is to hear canadians use those sentences <<You french fag>>, <<**** all you french bitches>>, <<**** the french>>, etc...
I tell you, it has happened to me or i witnessed such events more than I could count.
Hell, back in High school it was forbidden for us to wear Fleur de lysés!
The supreme court deemed some parts of the 101 law, one of Québec's strongest language protection regulation, was deemed inconstitutional and tried to limit its power, well, we DID NOT sign the constitution!

Reserves are the closest thing to segragation you'll find in Canada, they get tax-breaks, sure. But the schools and hospitals are dangerously underfunded.
Do you know how bad it is to live there? Most of the people are either jobless or paid at minimum wage. Suicide rates are too high and most of the kids have a drug problem.
I'd rather be homeless than living in a reserve.

Once again, as I said, I'm not calling all canadians racists or evil or whatever, what i'm saying is racism is alive and well in Canada and that the confederation is not statisfying for Québec.
It's not about protecting ourselves from an "harmful" canadian culture, it's about protecting our own. We are 8million francophones surrounded by 300 million of anglophones, our culture has to be protected.

And i'll continue later, classes are starting soon.

 

[DrDevin]

First, you cannot stop a country from using "your" currency, it is not even decided by the PQ wich currency would be used, either a Québec's currency, the canadian dollar or the US dollar (as proposed by Bernard Landry).
As for the companies moving out, it is ridiculous, no company would ever give up a market of 8 million people, that's nonsense.

The support France was to give was especially a acknowledging Québec as a sovereign nation. Besides, it's not like the riots will go on forever and will not stop France at recongnizing(?) Québec as nation.

As for the riot you predicted, it's not going to happen, federalists will either move to Canada or just stay and learn to love their new country. Besides, acadians and french-ontarions might also immigrate to Québec.
A constitution and a Québec citizenship is to be made whenever the PQ comes back to power.

You realise what your saying? Quebec is not the best candidate for seperation. You think a country of 7,500,000 people will survive, being boardered on all sides by countrys that dont like them? Do you know their incomes? Their natural resources? Quebec does not have such a large amount of money that it could keep doing well as an independant nation. They would have to import most of their products (including basics things like food).

You would need a passport to visit canada or the states and tariffs could be imposed. You think france will help them in some way? They are on the other side of the atlantic (not to mention they are not the #1 country).

French is not even close to be a national language, ranking in at #14 with 72 million speakers compared to 885 Mandarin 323 Spanish 322 English. Even montreal is becoming a major english sector with many places requiring english to be spoken. After they seperate Canada could no longer be bilingual and drop any support for the french (at least politicians will be mostly english) making quebec relations even worse. No more french in schools, french TV channels or anything which would decrease support for french communities.

I think it could be good for Quebec to seperate so they can see just how much better it is to be part of Canada and work out their problems. I mean noone wants any of the US states to seperate do they?

I know you can experience hatred towards you and I am sorry for people who are that racist and dont even know your past (the french had great ideals in WWI with no conscription and going to war just because britain said so). I just dont think "running" from your problems will solve them. How can you get wellfare for those who are jobless if you have even less financial backing? I know if I was unemployed I would want help to get me back on my feet!

 

[The Mullinator]

1. I was not using history to hate a group, If you tought there was any racism in my post, it wasn't intended. I'm not saying all canadians are evil and racist. In fact, most of them are normal people.
Also, history repeats itself, just think of the C20 law that was adopted just to make it harder for Québec to leave the confederation.

3. Québec also has economic interests in leaving the confederacy and is represented properly in Ottawa.
And the most important thing, Quebecers and Canadian are NOT the same people, we have a different culture, language, history, and so on...
Canada is not my country, I feel no attachement to it.

Yes you were using history as a means of displaying hate towards the Canadian government. You were using it for reasons to seperate from Canada.

Quebec has very little in the way of economic interests. Your major exports are often industries that the government forces the rest of Canada to produce in low quantities to ensure that Quebec remains the dominant export province. Canada itself would be unlikely to become a major trading partner with someone who just seperated from them. The United States would be more likely to trade with an old ally who would now not have a problem becomming a competitor with a new Quebec nation. Europe may feel the same as the United States in that respect, also there is no guarantee that Europe would even need what Quebec exports as much as the United States would. Almost every Canadian corporation that has its headquarters in Quebec would most certainly leave the province. Quebec simply cannot do it, you need equalization payments when you are part of Canada for crying out loud. What makes you think you could survive with all the added expenses of being a seperate nation on top of no longer recieving equalization payments? Also after having Canada become your new trading competitor, something that the government has to actually work at to ensure such a situation doesn't arise right now. Do you really think Quebec could do it?

Thats not to mention the number of people who would leave the new country. I think most people living in Quebec who do not want seperation would rather leave what they feel would soon be an extremelly poor country by Western standards. Not to mention the number of English speaking people who would most likely leave considering it is almost a sure thing the government would declare the country French only. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if such a new country even if it could do well would be declared highly racist by many other nations due to what I suspect would be extremelly harsh language laws.

You don't feel like a part of Canada? Guess what. Quebec isn't the only province with French speaking towns in it. Ontario has several towns that are French speaking, I often go for groceries in "Noel ville" when I am at my cottage. Manitoba also has a very large French speaking population in fact. If you don't feel like you are a part of Canada after it made French a second official language for Quebec, after it did what it could to ensure a unique French culture could survive inside of it, after most of its Prime ministers have been from or had ridings in Quebec, after the government gives almost every incentive to Canadian businesses and industries to make Quebec the major area for Canadian corporations to set up headquarters, after French is a language schools from Newfoundland to British Columbia are forced to teach, after equalization payments at the expense of other provinces. If you don't feel like a part of Canada after all of that then I am sorry to say that you are most likely someone who simply never tried to be a Canadian. You have the strange belief that because you are different then you must not be a part of Canada.

That above all is one of the strangest things I find with seperatists. Often they complain of percieved racism and yet they have this belief that because they are different from other people in Canada that they must leave. If Martin Luther King Jr had that belief then he would have wanted Blacks to gather in one state and declare themselves a new country rather than try and intigrate them into the United States.

EDIT: Also statistically more than 1/12 of French speaking Canadians live outside of Quebec I believe.

 

[pvtbones]

The Mullinator's awsome reply

what he said!

 

[chimpmunk]

Second of all if Quebec were to seperate right now, they would want to keep Air Canada, Just for Laugh's Comedy Festival, and other major Canadian owned busniesses.
And I agree we need to really fix our Politics and give more power to the west in Canada. When an election is held most of the people live in the East, so it's really based on Ontario who becomes prime minister.

Bare in mind though, Canada is a relatively new country in respect to the United states and countries in Europe, We got our offical flag in the 1960's!! So a lot has to happen before Canada ever becomes a well set country in terms of Politics.

Just for laugh was made as an english counter part to the Festival Juste pour rire.
Source:http://www.hahaha.com/en/history/1985.html
Just for laugh was created in 1985 while Juste pour rire was created in 1983.

As for your Canada is a young country argument, it isn't worth nothing. Already in the 1800's, Le parti patriote wanted to free Québec (wich was lower Canada at the time, I recall) from the British rule, there even were indenpendantist movements while it was still part of the French empire (although, it wasn't as widespread at the time of the New France).

 

[chimpmunk]

Yes you were using history as a means of displaying hate towards the Canadian government. You were using it for reasons to seperate from Canada.

Quebec has very little in the way of economic interests. Your major exports are often industries that the government forces the rest of Canada to produce in low quantities to ensure that Quebec remains the dominant export province. Canada itself would be unlikely to become a major trading partner with someone who just seperated from them. The United States would be more likely to trade with an old ally who would now not have a problem becomming a competitor with a new Quebec nation. Europe may feel the same as the United States in that respect, also there is no guarantee that Europe would even need what Quebec exports as much as the United States would. Almost every Canadian corporation that has its headquarters in Quebec would most certainly leave the province. Quebec simply cannot do it, you need equalization payments when you are part of Canada for crying out loud. What makes you think you could survive with all the added expenses of being a seperate nation on top of no longer recieving equalization payments? Also after having Canada become your new trading competitor, something that the government has to actually work at to ensure such a situation doesn't arise right now. Do you really think Quebec could do it?

Thats not to mention the number of people who would leave the new country. I think most people living in Quebec who do not want seperation would rather leave what they feel would soon be an extremelly poor country by Western standards. Not to mention the number of English speaking people who would most likely leave considering it is almost a sure thing the government would declare the country French only. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if such a new country even if it could do well would be declared highly racist by many other nations due to what I suspect would be extremelly harsh language laws.

You don't feel like a part of Canada? Guess what. Quebec isn't the only province with French speaking towns in it. Ontario has several towns that are French speaking, I often go for groceries in "Noel ville" when I am at my cottage. Manitoba also has a very large French speaking population in fact. If you don't feel like you are a part of Canada after it made French a second official language for Quebec, after it did what it could to ensure a unique French culture could survive inside of it, after most of its Prime ministers have been from or had ridings in Quebec, after the government gives almost every incentive to Canadian businesses and industries to make Quebec the major area for Canadian corporations to set up headquarters, after French is a language schools from Newfoundland to British Columbia are forced to teach, after equalization payments at the expense of other provinces. If you don't feel like a part of Canada after all of that then I am sorry to say that you are most likely someone who simply never tried to be a Canadian. You have the strange belief that because you are different then you must not be a part of Canada.

That above all is one of the strangest things I find with seperatists. Often they complain of percieved racism and yet they have this belief that because they are different from other people in Canada that they must leave. If Martin Luther King Jr had that belief then he would have wanted Blacks to gather in one state and declare themselves a new country rather than try and intigrate them into the United States.

EDIT: Also statistically more than 1/12 of French speaking Canadians live outside of Quebec I believe.

You seem to forget that for most of its history, Québec tried to part of Canada, french-speaker tried everything to be accepted and treated as egals and make Canada better (Like the Representation by population, wich they never got until french speakers became a minority).
Until the quiet revolution, independantism was not the norm it is now.

And I disagree with your economical arguments. Why would anyone stop trading with us? No one is interested in losing a market. A lot of ontarian companies sell their products and services in Québec, you think they'd remove themselves and lose money?
Québec as a close ally in Europe as France, I fail to see what the problem would be.
And USA, with all their guardians of freedom and democracy talk, should be the first to acknowledge Québec as a Nation and have good relations with it.

And even IF it went as bad as you predict, Québec is still close diplomatically and economically to many South american countries.

As for comparing Québec to the francophone towns of Canada, it's not a valuable comparasion, Quebec is in majority french speaking, while those french towns are only a minority in their respective provinces. Plus, most of the french speaking towns in Ontario are along the Québec border.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

One one hand you want respect from english canadians and on the other you want to ditch the country to get rid of english canadians.

That does not compute.

All your contemporaneous complaints concern the province being too english for your taste. All your valid complaints concern things that happened decades ago.
Oh yeah, and someone called you a fag. Welcome to the internet.
If you want respect, stop living in the past and stop letting the minority of jerks push you around.

 

[diluted]

no offense but please shut up. We dont need any further comments like that to reinforce the negative stereotype of non french speaking canadians

Meh, perhaps that was a bit harsh, separatists just get under my skin is all. I'm half French-Canadian myself (my dad is french), and I have nothing against French-Canadians as a whole, just those who aim to divide our country.

 

[AntiAnto]

We ought to stop quarreling with our cultural and social differences. French and English-Canadians must absolutely band together, because I think that's what makes the beauty of this country, the multiethnic aspect.

 

[chimpmunk]

One one hand you want respect from english canadians and on the other you want to ditch the country to get rid of english canadians.

That does not compute.

All your contemporaneous complaints concern the province being too english for your taste. All your valid complaints concern things that happened decades ago.
Oh yeah, and someone called you a fag. Welcome to the internet.
If you want respect, stop living in the past and stop letting the minority of jerks push you around.

Ditch the country? Irrespecting anglo-canadians? Where did you get this?

The basis is that i, as many quebecers, don't feel any attachement to Canada.
I don't belong in Canada, i'd like to live in a French country, a country I'd be proud of and who would reflect my values and beliefs, and Canada is not that country.

As for the racist comments, they were taken off my own experience in real life, NOT on the internet. Oh, they were just racists jerks, then I am sorry for having let people PUSH ME around... So, that's how you put it, and anglophone says a racist comment and i'm weak? So, did the jews deserve the holocaust? After all, if they wanted respect they should've stood up against it. Maybe that's a different story? Then how is it so? Racism is racism. You're not proving anything.

I never said the province was too english, i'd like to see a quote on that.

 

[chimpmunk]

Meh, perhaps that was a bit harsh, separatists just get under my skin is all. I'm half French-Canadian myself (my dad is french), and I have nothing against French-Canadians as a whole, just those who aim to divide our country.

Thinking that people are bent on "destroying a country" proves that you just don't understand the motivations behind it...

So, you have something against me based on the fact I am independantist? Well, you are a very tolerant person.

EDIT: removed mistakes.

 

[pvtbones]

there is a simple solution to your problem, move to france. it's a french speaking country and since you claim to have to no attachment to canada it shouldn't be to much trouble.

 

[chimpmunk]

I hope that was not serious, because it'd be a very stupid "solution".

I feel no attachement towards Canada, but I am very patriotic towards Québec.
I'd rather stay and do everything I can that just... quit.

 

[Absinthe]

Chimpmunk, I don't live in Canada, and I'm not all that familiar with the Canadian modus vivendi, but your arguments are not holding much water.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

-Quebec is Canada, except with a higher concentration of francophones. You really aren't that different, god forbid.

-If you want more attachment to Canada, you're not going to get it by distancing yourself from it in almost every possible way.

-A few people call you french in an insulting tone so you decide to start your own country. Yes, I call that being pushed around. Assuming these people weren't just being hurtful and actually are bigoted, the first thing they would want is for you to leave the country.

The internet provides all sorts of new and unique ways to insult people, but I'm not going to cut off my modem because of a bunch of little kids.
But that's basically what you are doing by cutting yourself away from the rest of Canada.

As for comparing yourself to a jew in the holocaust, get over yourself. Several kids call you names and you think it's comparable to genocide. Please.
It's just words from idiots, not a gas chamber.
Stop being melodramatic.

I never said the province was too english

Yet you hate the idea of tax dollars spent on Canadian flags and influence from the government in Ottawa. You just said above that you want to start Quebecworld because your culture 'needs protecting'. Against what?
Besides approximately four people calling you 'french', what bad has honestly happened to you at the hands of your english oppressors?

It's stupid. You want all the benefits of life in Canada, but you don't want to live with the reality that not everything happens the way you'd like. That's a very self-centered stance.

The way you're acting, it's as though you've never left the province.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Ditch the country? Irrespecting anglo-canadians? Where did you get this?

Well, for a start, here:

The basis is that i, as many quebecers, don't feel any attachement to Canada.
I don't belong in Canada, i'd like to live in a French country, a country I'd be proud of and who would reflect my values and beliefs, and Canada is not that country.

 

[Last One In]

Hey, how easy is it to become a canadian citizen?

 

[chimpmunk]

Well, for a start, here:

You are trying to make it sound like it's on racism/hate of the canadians and disrespect when it's not the case.
I said many times that I respect all the decent Canadians (wich are a majority) but I don't feel as a "Canadian" myself.

 

[chimpmunk]

-Quebec is Canada, except with a higher concentration of francophones. You really aren't that different, god forbid.

-If you want more attachment to Canada, you're not going to get it by distancing yourself from it in almost every possible way.

-A few people call you french in an insulting tone so you decide to start your own country. Yes, I call that being pushed around. Assuming these people weren't just being hurtful and actually are bigoted, the first thing they would want is for you to leave the country.

The internet provides all sorts of new and unique ways to insult people, but I'm not going to cut off my modem because of a bunch of little kids.
But that's basically what you are doing by cutting yourself away from the rest of Canada.

As for comparing yourself to a jew in the holocaust, get over yourself. Several kids call you names and you think it's comparable to genocide. Please.
It's just words from idiots, not a gas chamber.
Stop being melodramatic.


Yet you hate the idea of tax dollars spent on Canadian flags and influence from the government in Ottawa. You just said above that you want to start Quebecworld because your culture 'needs protecting'. Against what?
Besides approximately four people calling you 'french', what bad has honestly happened to you at the hands of your english oppressors?

It's stupid. You want all the benefits of life in Canada, but you don't want to live with the reality that not everything happens the way you'd like. That's a very self-centered stance.

The way you're acting, it's as though you've never left the province.

Once again, who said they were kids? Who said that was on the internet?
So, If I said <<f**k those canadian fags>> it wouldn't be THAT racist? That's so illogical. I guess that's because it's not color based racism, so it's not "real racism".
The jews compairason was to show the irony of what you said, english speakers, from different social and economic backgrounds, from different colors and ages, say anti-french/racist comments, therefore, YOU ARE WEAK. How does that work?
The point of being independantist is not about to protect ourselves from racism (although, it surely doesn't help), the point was that anti-french racism still exists in Canada. If you can't see it, you are either blind, a liar or live in Nunavut.
You'll never see someone from the PQ basing its speech on racism. The idea behind independantism(sp?) is that most Québecers don't feel Canadian, and they don't want to become it. Québec has been fighting off assimilation for what? 300 years? almost 400 years?

Québec gives more money to Ottawa than it is given back, being poorer in average compared to the other provinces, that's a problem.
I'm no economist, but I know all the money we are giving Ottawa will be given to Québec so instead, so for the first time since the first colony, french americans will be their own masters.
What you seem to not understand is that Québecers are tired of being a minority inside a majority.

I did actually left the province, I went to the eastern provinces, I never went to Ontario or the prairies and am not interested, but someday i'll probably go to the B.C., probably when I finish college or something.

 

[Viperidae]

There have always been disputes and quarrels between French speaking and English speaking Canada.

The end.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Once again, who said they were kids? Who said that was on the internet?

If they aren't kids then they are stupid. In either case, you shouldn't care what they say.
As for the internet, maybe I should introduce you to my friend Simile. He's like a metaphor only more blatant.

So, If I said <<f**k those canadian fags>> it wouldn't be THAT racist? That's so illogical. I guess that's because it's not color based racism, so it's not "real racism".

Since Quebec and Canada in general are multicultural, yes.
Speaking french doesn't make you a race any more than 'Canadian' is a race. People of all races speak french.

The jews compairason was to show the irony of what you said, english speakers, from different social and economic backgrounds, from different colors and ages, say anti-french/racist comments, therefore, YOU ARE WEAK. How does that work?

Here it is again with the claims of widespread and almost systematic 'racism' against Quebec. How many times has this honestly happened?

The point of being independantist is not about to protect ourselves from racism (although, it surely doesn't help), the point was that anti-french racism still exists in Canada. If you can't see it, you are either blind, a liar or live in Nunavut.

Oh no you are racist against blind people and the inuit!11

Racism 'exists' anywhere you'd like to look, and it certainly exists in Europe and Africa. The problem with your argument is that you apparently think it is downright systematic in Canada just because it happened to you all of four times. I believe that is self-centered.
And your refusal to elaborate on these encounters leads me to conclude that your claims that every possible demographic has insulted you at some point in your life is a little hard to believe.

You'll never see someone from the PQ basing its speech on racism. The idea behind independantism(sp?) is that most Québecers don't feel Canadian, and they don't want to become it. Québec has been fighting off assimilation for what? 300 years? almost 400 years?

If you don't want to be Canadian, I suggest that choosing to live in Canada is a mistake. News Flash: you're already in Canada. The Quebec that you love so much is Canada and you are in Canada using Canadian internet to tell the world you 'feel' no connection to any of it.

Québec gives more money to Ottawa than it is given back, being poorer in average compared to the other provinces, that's a problem.
I'm no economist, but I know all the money we are giving Ottawa will be given to Québec so instead, so for the first time since the first colony, french americans will be their own masters.
What you seem to not understand is that Québecers are tired of being a minority inside a majority.

Again, here's the same claims of being dominated and that you, for some reason, deserve special privileges over other minorities. Again with no reason except vague appeals to 'feelings' and 'culture'. You really don't seem to have thought this through.

I did actually left the province, I went to the eastern provinces, I never went to Ontario or the prairies and am not interested, but someday i'll probably go to the B.C., probably when I finish college or something.

But BC is part of the evil colonial empire! Look out they may assimilate you!

Maybe if you stop treating the rest of Canada like flyover or vacation states, you'll get the connection you're missing.
All your vague complaints are heaped at Ontario and you've never even been there. Come on.
You're in Quebec and you haven't even been to the province next door. That's like staying in your house forever and then complaining that your neighbours never say 'hi', so you build a wall around your yard.
(That last sentence was a simile too.)

 

[$kelet0r]

by your logic canada should hand over control of everything to the natives who were there first - and why not
surely if Quebec has the right to be a country, then Native american tribes are entitled to claim all the lands they inhabited over 2 millenia

 

[dream431ca]

A little of topic...but here's what Canadian Racism consists of...in the far east in Canada...people say a-BOOT, and not a-BOUT. There. I said it.

 

[Sainku]

I think you guys are looking for a phrase like, national origin discrimination...or something along those lines. That whole racism thing just isnt working. Maybe its just me, but I prefer it when the word racism is only used in a literal sense. It just seems to be tossed around by people who are racist against dictionaries sometimes.

 

[chimpmunk]

What I was saying about the natives is that they are, indeed, segregated and tossed away in those "reserves" where conditions of life there are miserable.

- Studies show that native women and children living on reserves are the most disadvantaged of all Canadian citizens.

Source:http://www.rlnn.com/ArtOct05/ABetterLifeForIndians.html
(Lots of information, I myself learned a few things on that site, thank you Google)

MECHAGODZILLA:
I am NOT going to expand on my personnal experiences of racism as they are just that, PERSONNAL so it's not relevant.
Just know it isn't uncommon, feel free to think I'm lying if that suits you, I'd have no interest in creating such stories, though.

I couldn't honestly say how much times it happened as I never bothered to counting them, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count them all that's sure.

Your point about "choosing Canada and using <<Canadian>> internet" makes no sense. I was born here, as where my ancestors since 1755 (My family tree stops there because much of them were deported by the british army), I don't want to leave this place. I didn't choose it, I've always been here.
As for <<using Canadian interent>>, I felt you were using an ironic tone trying to make a point, basically saying <<well, if you hate Canada so much, why do you use services provided by a Canadian company?>>.
Let me answer that: First, I hate Canadian racism and the Canadian Governement, I don't hate something or someone based on the fact that it comes from Canada. Following you logic, you, as a great Canadian patriot, should boycott all products from Danemark as they are trying to steal the Hans Island from Canada.

What I said was not that we want more privileges than other minorites, we just don't want to be a minority! I'm sure you cannot find something wrong to a people wanting to be its own master?

You clearly misunderstand me un purpose, I just said I'd like to go to the B.C. and you say I have no interest in Canada? The reason I never went to Ontario is because there is nothing to do in Ontario, just name me on thing! British Columbia is cool, the atlantinc provinces are, Ontario is not.
I won't forbid myself to go to the B.C. because it's part of the "evil" empire, THAT would be blind hatred and downright stupid.
I make a clear distinction between Canada's government, racist Canadians AND the non racists Canadians.
In my life, I met TWO english-speaking Canadian that had no prejudice towards francophones or any sense of superiority (French speaking federalist Canadian are even more prone to Québec-bashing) and they were really nice people, I even met one of them in college as he came here to learn French.

The idea is not to ditch those decent persons based on the fact they are english, it's about having a country that represents us. Denying that Canadians and Québecers have a different history and culture is an insult to both people (it's more than just the language difference).
Following your logic, Austrians and Germans are the same people, I mean, they are both in Europe and they even speak the same language!!! That's a very superficial view of what defines a people.

Of course I consider all of Canada as nothing more than a touristic destination because I'd never go live in another province than Québec. There are many reasons behind that choice:
First,I don't want to have to live in english.
Second, I don't want to live in a province governed by either the Liberals or the Conservatives.
Third, The B.C. is too far, the prairies don't attract me, Ontario is well... Ontario, and the Atlantic provinces are too far.
Fourth, I wanna live in Québec cause I love it, as you love Canada, if I asked you to move to France (forgetting the riots), would you want to? (I'm talking about settling there forever) What about Germany? Or Russia? Or China? Would you like to have to live your everyday life in another language than the one in wich you grew up and lived your whole life?

 

[Fliko]

You are putting French Canadians above other Canadians, sounds racist.
End of story.

 

[chimpmunk]

I've done what now? I never said or intended to express superiority, they are DIFFERENT. That's all.