Canadian racism

[Mechagodzilla]

You have only met two english-speaking people IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE who weren't racist?

What kind of sheltered life do you live? Seriously, do you not leave your home?

I consider all of Canada as nothing more than a touristic destination

Problem: You're living an insular life.

Apparently you've met approximately twenty-two English speakers in your lifetime, you avoid the 11 of the thirteen provinces for no big reason, you hate the government for no big reason and your family hasn't left the province in 250 years.

Maybe an exchange student program is exactly what you need.

As for me, I have a passable knowledge of French and my family is German. I've seriously considered past offers to live in Japan and, OH NO, Quebec.
What is there to see in any of those places? Who knows and who cares? They sound like fun to me.
I am not afraid of being a 'minority' in other cultures.

Name one thing to do in Ontario?
Experience the place you dislike so much and maybe get over your misconceptions. The canadian population is not over 90% racist against you, and maybe you need to see that instead of giving up on the entire country outside your home.

 

[Sulkdodds]

The idea is not to ditch those decent persons based on the fact they are english, it's about having a country that represents us. Denying that Canadians and Québecers have a different history and culture is an insult to both people (it's more than just the language difference).

Don't you only have a different history and culture because you've been trying to seperate and isolate yourself for so long?

 

[DeusExMachina]

America. **** yeah.


I keed I keed. Anyways, I think all this talk of "racism" and such is steming from your own experiences. And you shouldn't judge a people based on one person.

 

[Fliko]

America. **** yeah.


I keed I keed. Anyways, I think all this talk of "racism" and such is steming from your own experiences. And you shouldn't judge a people based on one person.

Thats why I said Chimpmunk was giving off racist comments, basing a group of people off of one person. Sadly enough, in some dictionaries, that is what Racism means.

 

[chimpmunk]

I keed I keed. Anyways, I think all this talk of "racism" and such is steming from your own experiences. And you shouldn't judge a people based on one person.

That's why I said my own experience were not relevant to the topic.

Sulkdodds: Our cultures and history are different because, at the start, New france/ Québec/Lower Canada/ East Canada/ etc. was populated by people from France, who brought their habits and culture here. While the other part of Canada was of british origins.
Just look at the institutions of today, Canada still acts as if we were in the 1800's! They still have a General Governor, the army and the parliament pay alligence to the queen.

The history is different, well, because French canadians and English canadians were never put in a state of equality.
In the time French speakers outnumbered English speakers, England refused to give Canada's governement a democratic representation by population system. As soon as the French speakers became a minority, it was instaured.
To make sure French speakers would not raise to high positions of power, they forced them to renounce to catholicism and pledge allegience to the Queen.
Of course, English was then the only official language.

Let's not forget Lord Durham, who was sent by the British crown to find a solution about what to do with the French Canadians. The recommandations he sent back to England was that Frenc Canadians were an inferior people and their only hope of becoming a decent people would be to be assimilated in to the British empire.

... It will be acknowledged by every one who has observed the progress of Anglo-Saxon colonization in America, that sooner or later the English race was sure to predominate even numerically in Lower Canada, as they predominate already by their superior knowledge, energy, enterprise, and wealth. The error, therefore, to which the present contest must be attributed, is the vain endeavour to preserve a French Canadian nationality in the midst of Anglo-American colonies and states.

http://www.uni.ca/durhamreport.html

The Patriot Party (set in Lower Canada/Québec) sent London its 92 resolutions wich asked for more democracy. The resolution were ignored.
The frustration grew to such a point that a revolution for indendence took place. Although, it failed, the Patriot Party inspired modern parties as the RIN and the MSA (wich merged to form what is not the PQ)
INFO:http://www.marxists.org/history/canada/quebec/patriotes-rebellion/introduction.htm

When natives and halfbreeds revolted because their territories were being stolen from them only to expand the railway so USA couldn't get those territories, Louis Riel (the halfbreed French leader of the revolution) was hanged, even if his mental condition prevented him from being held responsible for his acts. His accomplice, the English leader of the natives and halfbreed revolt, was not sentenced "fled" (it was a set up) to the USA.

A last thing, until the quiet revolution, most (if not all) business in Québec was either runned by Americans or (english)Canadians. You could not go shopping in your own language! They would not serve you in French!
Just inverse the situation and imagine how you'd live it.

If you can't call it major differences in history, well, tell me what to call it. Cause to me it seems both histories are different. Telling me that despite having different origins, language and religion, these two people are alike and the same is an INSULT to said history.

EDIT: to answer your question directly, You can see with it that we have a different culture because our history was different, because we protected it as soon as we became a minority. If we didn't, maybe we'd have the same culture, as the African peoples who were "civilized" by the europeans...

 

[mortiz]

You do know that it was a different world back then? Britain was practically at war with France. The two countries weren't fighting directly but there was a war going on over North America especially. For instance France assisted the now U.S. independence effort and Britain attacked many a French colony.

Of course Britain wouldn't want people who were pledging their Allegiance to France to get in places of power, and I'm sure the French would have done the same if they'd had the presence in North America. It’s sad but true that at that time Canada was just another battle ground.

 

[Viperidae]

Why are you bringing the Durham report into this?

Louis Riel was seen as someone who attacked the British Empire itself when he executed Thomas Scott. I'm not justifying the hanging of Riel, but it wasn't as black and white as 'He was Metis, so we must kill him.' Riel didn't help himself by throwing out his lawyer, either.

 

[chimpmunk]

The point is that Riel could not be held responsible for his acts. He had different mental conditions (he thought he was chosen by god and what not) who made him not fit for a trial.
They set up a trial anyways and hanged him, despite Québec's oposition.

They also let the other leader of the halfbreeds, an English speaking halfbreed, flee because they didn't want to kill him.

And I brought the Durham report for one reason, and it should be clear:

... It will be acknowledged by every one who has observed the progress of Anglo-Saxon colonization in America, that sooner or later the English race was sure to predominate even numerically in Lower Canada, as they predominate already by their superior knowledge, energy, enterprise, and wealth. The error, therefore, to which the present contest must be attributed, is the vain endeavour to preserve a French Canadian nationality in the midst of Anglo-American colonies and states.

That quote pretty much sums up that text wich was nothing more than pure racism. The report presented the French Canadians as inferiors and only worthy of assimilation into the british empire.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

You can see with it that we have a different culture because our history was different, because we protected it as soon as we became a minority. If we didn't, maybe we'd have the same culture, as the African peoples who were "civilized" by the europeans...

First genocide and now slavery. Life sure is hard in Quebec. :rolling:

 

[chimpmunk]

Like you didn't understand what I meant. I did not talk about slavery, I was talking about the way europeans (not only the British) forced their culture on another people. In fact, I didn't even MENTION slavery.

If you want to discredit me, try to do it based on what I said.

Anyways, back to what I was saying, of course English Canada tried to force its language, culture and religion on the French speakers. But we resisted and managed to keep our identity (with much help from the catholic church) that's why, we still have a different culture in 2005. Don't tell me it's a bad thing.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Like you didn't understand what I meant. I did not talk about slavery, I was talking about the way europeans (not only the British) forced their culture on another people. In fact, I didn't even MENTION slavery.

If that's the case then, when you seperate, what happens to the people of Quebec who don't hate the rest of the country? You'd certainly be forcing your culture onto them.

Don't tell me it's a bad thing.

It's a bad thing.

You went too far with your cultural preservation and enstated a near-total isolation from the rest of the country. Instead of living in harmony, you built yourself a nice little fort in the backyard where you use your 'cultural preservation' as a 'no girls allowed' sign.

You're not completely identical to the rest of us, but you certainly aren't some altogether different brand of human either. All the other minorites seem to be having little trouble living without their own province.
If the french-speaking population weren't concentrated into a single province, maybe you wouldn't need to whine about language barriers when you visit manitoba or whatever, because your french culture would already be there.

 

[Viperidae]

My point was, no one really did anything about the Durham report. It was the 'meh' document of the time.

 

[mortiz]

Like you didn't understand what I meant. I did not talk about slavery, I was talking about the way europeans (not only the British) forced their culture on another people. In fact, I didn't even MENTION slavery.

If you want to discredit me, try to do it based on what I said.

Anyways, back to what I was saying, of course English Canada tried to force its language, culture and religion on the French speakers. But we resisted and managed to keep our identity (with much help from the catholic church) that's why, we still have a different culture in 2005. Don't tell me it's a bad thing.

Forced their culture? This might be news to you, but you're probably not a native American, if you are a native American descendent then you may have a right to complain. If it wasn't for Europeans, Canada, the United States and parts of South America wouldn't exist as we know them today.

 

[chimpmunk]

Forced their culture? This might be news to you, but you're probably not a native American, if you are a native American descendent then you may have a right to complain. If it wasn't for Europeans, Canada, the United States and parts of South America wouldn't exist as we know them today.

What are you trying to say? That colonisation was a good thing? I hope not.

So I am "complaining" because, as I said, the English Canadians tried to force their culture upon us. It did not work, that's why we still are a different people now, because we fought for our indentity and culture.

My point was, no one really did anything about the Durham report. It was the 'meh' document of the time.

Let's see... The Durham report recommanded the union of Lower and Upper Canada to make French speakers a minority, what happened next? Both Canada's were merged together with one government, hardly seems "meh" to me...

 

[BirdMan]

OK here's my entry in the thread

First let me introduce myself, 18 year old guy, living in Quebec, studying politics. I've stopped reading the last page cause I sense it was not going anywhere and the feeling of replying was getting harder.

Second, forgive my english.. im a french canadian.

Third, I'd like to precise something that wasn't precised at the begining of the thread. There are 2 Quebec's separation movement here in Quebec. The Independance, and the sovreignety (howthef*** do you write that ). Independance is the radical movement: Leaving Canada, changing everything that is written Canada on it, economy independance, own army, own currency and the list goes on...

But do not get mixed up with sovreignety, wich I see it as a more "peacefull" or realistic way of seperation. It implies that Quebec becomes a distinct nation, a country; BUT keeps close links with Canada in terms of Economy and many other aspects to prevent an economic crash in both countries (cause both Quebec and Canada are probably gonna get problems with this so better do it safely and peacefully). If Canada doesnt want to support Quebec in its democratic choice of becoming a country (cause sovreignety implies to have friendly links with Canada), well I think Canada could be a bit responsable for not helping the situation.

Also, an argument that stimulates Quebec is that Quebec looks like many other nordic countries, some smaller (Like Denmark), and many others like Finland, Norway who gets on very good on their own.. that said, I don't see why Quebec could not do the same as I was told that Quebec was the 16th economic power (I saw this on a documentary shown in politics class but i've not seen many proofs, might be propaganda, I don't know). We might not be the richest province, and only God knows what will happen if we seperate, but as the movement grows stronger here in quebec, I think people will still support it even if economic problems follow from it.

I'm trying to be realistic here by saying that Quebec's separation might not be an plus to both Countries in terms of economy but the ideals of a Nation of Quebec goes far beyond economy. It concerns history, culture, language, political ideology (we have many lefties here, more then Canada I think) and an idealistic view of a french speaking country, deciding it's laws and being masters at home.

To conclude, I don't hate Canada (but I hate Federal Governement ways to prove us their affection toward us ), and I really hope we can find a way to get at ease with Canada. Either you let us leave in peace and keeping close links (could be a great way to resolve many problems) or Quebec gives up the separatist movement (wich is not realsitic cause it's growing stronger). I hope I could change things, but I can't do much but I'm trying as hard as i can. I don't support radical independance like some people tend to believe in. I dream of a day where Quebec could become a country, and having Canada as a close exchange partner, and same with other countries.

Now, sorry for the long post, i'm open for any critics or debate but please no flames.

Oh and i Forgot, for the argument of private companies leaving Quebec if it becomes a country; during the 1995 referendum, 1 company said it would leave Quebec if it was to seperate but as we've seen in geopolitics class, they left even if we did not seperate (49,8% was not enough ) mainly because of the globalisation of free marketing. Other than that, I agree with, chimpmunk, Quebec is a great market, why leave?

 

[mortiz]

What are you trying to say? That colonisation was a good thing? I hope not.

So I am "complaining" because, as I said, the English Canadians tried to force their culture upon us. It did not work, that's why we still are a different people now, because we fought for our indentity and culture.



Let's see... The Durham report recommanded the union of Lower and Upper Canada to make French speakers a minority, what happened next? Both Canada's were merged together with one government, hardly seems "meh" to me...

Good? In the vast scheme of things, probably not. Good for you? Well since without it your country wouldn't even exist, absolutely.

 

[Revisedsoul]

economicly speaking we would be better off without quebec because companies wouldnt have to waist ink on printing the french on everything anymore.


p.s. send me some corned beef plz

 

[mechguy]

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This didn't come as a big surprise, but this clip (http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-74-870-...levesque/clip2) I found browsing the CBC website reminded me how Canada, in 2005, is still a colonial force inside its own borders.

First, even though it's almost 40 years old, this video is only one example of the way canadians treat their minorities, or should I say, their minority?

First, the clip itself, orangist influenced racism in its purest form:
<<I don't mind them (french canadians), i'm not prejudiced against negros either.>>.
And it's not like it's an isolated case: During WW2, after promising Quebecers they'd be spared the conscription if they elect the Liberal party as the provincial governement, the federal governement changes its mind and forces Quebecers to enlist and go die for England, even though Québec clearly expressed its opposition to the war.
Riots are started in Québec city against the conscription, canadian soldiers from Ontario shoot at the crowd and kill manifesters!

We could also think about the constitution (wich was brought back from England and signed by the rest of Canada without Québec's consent. To this day, Québec has not yet signed the constitution) and the (failure of the) lake Meech accord in 1987, where Canada refused to acknowledge Québec as a distinct society.

What about the sponsorship program? All this tax money the federal government illegally spent trying to prevent Québec from freeing itself from the confederation and becoming its own nation.

Last but not least, the October crisis in the 70's, when the independantist movement of the FLQ abudcted and killed the minister of work, Jean Lapierre, the army was deployed in Montreal and martial law was declared. During the time of the war measures, 500 persons where arrested and sent to jail by the army without trial on the only basis of their political ideas! This was the first and only time such a thing happened in North America.

The list goes on and on like when french schools were outlawed in Alberta. When Louis Riel was given a fake trial and hung because he was french and fighting for natives rights, his anglophone accomplice "escaped" (in fact, his escape was set up by the police), etc...

And it's not like Ottawa treats the natives better, they are almost forced to live in thoses "reserves" wich are nothing more than ghettos where most people are poor and jobless.

No wonder now even the western provinces want to leave Canada, because Canada is based on what used to be a british imperialist model.

Dude Im from canada and we arent racists, didnt the U.N rate Canada as the top place for minorities and imigrants to go for 5 years straight?

 

[chimpmunk]

If the U.N. says so, it must be true...

Wasn't also that same U.N. who noted "irregularities" in the way Ottawa handled the second referendum?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Hmm! Mechguy, Mechagodzilla, both canadian, both defending canada....co-incidence? I THINK NOT!

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Zoh no! Cloned!

Anywho, I'd like to give props to Birdman for writing an excellent post.