Character Model Clothes

T

theneb

Guest
Someone could ask Gabe htis but it might already be answered, with the source/models I would like to be able to have a character remove his jacket. Possible? Or are we waiting for hl3 ;).
 
Not gonna happen, or if so, it would require very one-shot animations and models.
 
No. The clothing is not seperately modelled from the character. Incredibly time consuming/complex to do that. No game has done that yet, and it'll take another while before one does.
 
In Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, some clothing is modeled separately so you can take clothes off and put them on, im sure you could animate the character to actually remove the clothes but it may be difficult.
 
Originally posted by Lifthz
No. The clothing is not seperately modelled from the character. Incredibly time consuming/complex to do that. No game has done that yet, and it'll take another while before one does.
Click to expand...

Actually you are not quite correct. In The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, the characters are modelled with just undergarments on, and each piece of armor or clothing is separately modelled for each race and sex, and is added on top of the basic naked character. The complexity comes in making multiple sets of clothes, armor, and such for each individual character mesh, yet having it look the same on each. It is because of this effort that you can have a character that can wear anything in the game, and certain clothes cover other clothes, such as a robe covering a pair of pants and shirt.

Also because of the way that items are modelled in Morrowind, it is relatively easy to create new clothing with a simple 3D model editor.
 
Would be cool tho.....imagine in HL2, a guy walks in, takes off his jacket and slings it over a chair. Then some aliens burst into the room, your general confusion happens, shooting and people running, then the guy goes to run, then thinks 'hey my jacket' he runs up to the chair, grabs the jacket, then BAM! he gets taken down by an alien! that would be funny.
Or a mission objective is to retrieve somebodys hat! or jacket, or something! yes very good....

LOL
 
It would be much easier to have a character with a hat that they remove, or sunglasses, or something of that nature.
 
I can see it being pheesable (sp? I'm quite a good speller but that one just escapes me) via a few methods, but it's the actual animation of the clothing eg. jacket that would be difficult.

It might be possible with a bit of coding but it'd look very unrealistic. There'd be no animation to the jacket and the transition between the guy wearing the jacket and not would be 100% noticable.

It depends how the skeletal animation system works. Perhaps you could animate the jacket in the same way as the facial expressions...

Hmm it is actually quite a good question, I thought it was a bit stupid ie. "why does it matter?" but it is an interesting point.

Anyone e-mailed Gabey yet?


I can imagine the "next generation" of PC games to introduce realistic clothing and hair animation but that could take some years yet.
If you think about it they've progressed so slowly with regards to technical capabilities over the last five years. I mean we've only just started being able to allow characters to die without their arms, legs and faces sticking through the nearest wall - and that's been a problem for sometime. I personally have only seen a few games that have had some sort of ragdoll physics system but it didn't work at all. In R6:3 they did somersaults, in SOF2 they absolutely; excuse the term; spagged out after the death animation. The Hitman series does it quite well.

I know graphics have been progressing quite easily but it's just the capabilities of the engines that's been so slow moving over the last 5 years. I hope it doesn't take too long for the next major improvements to come in.
 
just ask yourself the question...it that gonna be another new trick, or is it really gonna make the game better...i mean i dont think that a game like HL needs that
 
Removable clothes with animations to go with it is not something developers should care about when making an action oriented game. It would be good to have it for games like The Sims however.
 
Yeah but the ultimate goal is to eventually to be able to create a computer game that looks as true to life as humanly possible. All this lip synching, facial animation, clothing animation, realistic hair animation, physics - none of them are required for a good game, but we love to have it anyway because it makes the game more immersive. Gameplay is still the key factor - I agree that none of the above really enhance the gameplay all that much, but I'd love to see them perfected. And with HL2 we might with some of them.
 
Good points. But I remember somewhere Gabe himself saying 'Once you've reached exact human resemblance in games, then all the fun has gone' or something along those lines. And I agree with him, becasue once it becomes exactly like life, what would be the point in playing it? Wow I can sit in a chair in a game! why spend £30 to do it in a game? I'm doing it now for free (unless they bring in a chair sitting tax or something)
And before you say, I know there wont be a game just based around sitting down in a chair. But I mean whats the point of putting such details into a game if its not needed? I dont know many games where you have to sit down, or it would add to the game in any such way.
And look at the sims, they have chairs there, but do the use them, NO! they just stand up and eat and watch tv, stupid people.....lol
 
It's never going to need to get to that sort of detail while halfway through a bank heist you holster your weapon and sit down in the bank managers office for a quick nap.

There's realistic physics in HL2, dynamic lighting and shadows, realistic facial expressions - these are the kind of things you're saying will take the fun out of a game - but they won't. We know they won't - we've seen it in action already. It can go a lot further but no matter how far it goes, whether it enhances the gameplay I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't detract from it.
 
I didnt mean the shaders and physics and the others you mentioned. I meant little details like sitting in a chair, removing clothes and such. Thing is, the closer we get to perfect games, that totally resemble life, were going to face two problems. Either...
The games will loose there appeal, because games are meant to be a place where we can leave this world, and enter a new world, when we get annoyed with our job or something, we can go to vice city, kill some people, drive a gold caddy...but if its like real life, whats the point?
The other is that it'll become so like real life, that we'll spend all of our time in the game world, and not the real world...and just look at the matrix to show you what could happen! lol
But I never said, and never will say that HL2's current content will detract from the fun of the game....I mean, look at the wires! how cool is that!
I'm just saying, perhaps a game that totally resmbles life in every way could be a very bad thing
 
you could easily do this in any engine, it is however not part of the engine.

when I say very easy I mean
model your character, then model his clothes
animate that character, then animate his clothes
code in what affects his state... IE if he has submodel clothes applied
(IE have an undress/dress animation and have the clothes go into the characters chest.. works on the same principles as a bomb satchel on CS models... however not static)
blah blah blah
ooh coffee is done

anything is possible, it comes down to if your going to put in that effort, and if that effort is truely worth it.
 
Originally posted by alb1221
vampire redid the whole clothes deal
Click to expand...

Yeah, hehe, I think they coded in a whole new cloth dynamics system, I got to see Vampire in action and the fur coat looked awesome when the character moved around.
 
I'm sure pretty much all the shots of the new Vampire game don't look very good. Certainly not as good as HL2. But I might've been looking at the wrong screenshots.
 
Originally posted by DarkelP

The games will loose there appeal, because games are meant to be a place where we can leave this world, and enter a new world, when we get annoyed with our job or something, we can go to vice city, kill some people, drive a gold caddy...but if its like real life, whats the point?
Click to expand...

This makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't relate.

Some people would consider FPSs to be more like movies that you play. Well, it may look more realistic and act more realistic, but no matter how realistic we make a game look, it will still have action and creativity in it. What we're heading to is games that look like live-action movies that we can actually participate in. Now that's awesome.

On the other hand, if we make a realistic simulation, then that would be useful, but it wouldn't be much fun.
 
Originally posted by VoodooGod
This makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't relate.

Some people would consider FPSs to be more like movies that you play. Well, it may look more realistic and act more realistic, but no matter how realistic we make a game look, it will still have action and creativity in it. What we're heading to is games that look like live-action movies that we can actually participate in. Now that's awesome.

On the other hand, if we make a realistic simulation, then that would be useful, but it wouldn't be much fun.
Click to expand...


I see your point here, and agree with them. I'm just saying, if you put loads of detail into a game, that have little to nothing to do with the game genre, then it might detract from the gameplay in a way.

Plus Gabe hates Half-Life 2 being thought as of an interactive movie :p
 
It depends how the skeletal animation system works. Perhaps you could animate the jacket in the same way as the facial expressions...
Click to expand...
Umm you just weight the clothes to the skeleton like any other aspect of the model.....
 
feasible

:E

Here I come to save the day!
mightymouse.gif

Edit: ARRGGHHH no in-lines! doh. defeats the purpose!

I mean, jeeze, what if this was OLD NEWS!

-Phision
 
That's like saying a spork isn't a fork or a spoon... it is both.
 
Sorry, but the mix of a FPS and RPG aspects is a lot more essential than the mix of a spoon and a fork, horrible analogy.
 
How so?

A spoon with fork characteristics is still a type of spoon.
A FPS with RPG characteristics is still a type of FPS.
 
Originally posted by DarkelP
I see your point here, and agree with them. I'm just saying, if you put loads of detail into a game, that have little to nothing to do with the game genre, then it might detract from the gameplay in a way.

Plus Gabe hates Half-Life 2 being thought as of an interactive movie :p
Click to expand...
The Metal Gear Solid series is and interactive movie.. Actual gameplay is about 3-4 hours without all the cutscenes and Radio comms
 
Originally posted by DarkelP
I see your point here, and agree with them. I'm just saying, if you put loads of detail into a game, that have little to nothing to do with the game genre, then it might detract from the gameplay in a way.

Plus Gabe hates Half-Life 2 being thought as of an interactive movie :p
Click to expand...
The Metal Gear Solid series is and interactive movie.. Actual gameplay is about 3-4 hours without all the cutscenes and Codec conversations
 
Originally posted by FAK3R
The Metal Gear Solid series is and interactive movie.. Actual gameplay is about 3-4 hours without all the cutscenes and Codec conversations
Click to expand...

Thats true....but what does it have to do with what I said?
 
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