character study

Glo-Boy · Sep 16, 2006

Face punchers ahoy.

Wouldn't this guy's control scheme be fun? Square for blade, circle for ball on rope/strap thing.

some bigger detail, even though it's just a sketch

[Dragoon] · Sep 17, 2006

I think you'd get better control of the flail if you chopped off the arm just below the elbow. And I think he'd look scarier with random incisions badly sewn shut, encrusted with blood and bits of rotting flesh (sides of his mouth, .

As for the art, I really like it. Perhaps a bit too bright, though.

nofx · Sep 17, 2006

would look better and believable if you did this in pencil also the flail shouldnt be likthat at all anatomy is horrible and i could go on and on

but for a character study try to think more in terms of themes within themes

Glo-Boy · Sep 17, 2006

Dude it's a sketch, relax. I've spent years in classes doing this kind of thing. There are a couple of mistakes, that's how sketches go. Your attitude sucks asshole though - so either
a.) Show me your superior work.
or
b.) Point out all the problems you noticed and by all means, do go on and on.

In the meantime, I'll point out what bothers me already.

There, ALL of the anatomical problems have been sorted out.

nofx · Sep 17, 2006

i didnt mean to sound like an ass thisis the internet i haveno control over how you may interpret the sentences SO, honestly i was trying to be honest and helpful i could pat your ass and say WOW THIS IS AMAZING NEXT TO MUCHA OR DA VINCI but anyways, to me the anatomy is off because the colors dont give it any real definition you are missing all the high points of shadows ie reflected light shadow shadow overral its really flat, its like you just tried to play the warm colors make cool colors card. also its irrevelant you spent many years working on art it doesnt make this sketch any better. i also understand it is a sketch but the overall idea is kind of crappy. what i mean think themes of themes is since he is wearing fur yuo might want to give him some claw like earings of necklaces as someone else said more lashes and possibly at the end of a flail add a human head i thinking a viking theme a viking zombie thing ... also the drapery on his waist seems so out of place this isnt the greco roman times, it kind of reminds me of a john the baptist with no arms so this leads me to say

thats another reason why i said anatomy was off it seems as if yo just ignored the arms and the legs, ie you are not so great at rendering them so you didnt fully draw them out for this reason but i guess this was for character purpose but you didnt draw the legs and then you put on a tunic or w/e scarf that didnt really match the folds of the body also there is this vertical line going from his torso up to his neck that ruins the depth and once again the "anatomy"

the flail is wrong because theres no way it could arch out that far away from dude's body i guess you were trying to give a sense of movement but to me it looks kind of stiff like its stuck in time

you wont get anywhere if you dont take a crit and try to improve it it looks like you painted this in photoshop so keep working on it

Glo-Boy · Sep 17, 2006

Ignored the arms and legs? Dude, this is a sketch of a guy without arms and i didn't feel like doing the legs. How can you look at the muscular structure on his arms that I have begun and try to tell me I have no idea what I'm doing? Especially because I don't use photos for reference. That is, unless it's a reproduction of something, like my al pacino drawing. To me, that's kind of the point. I take critiques very well just not when the person giving them really doesn't know what they're talking about. THAT will get me pissed off.

a.) Next time I post a sketch I will include arms and legs. Don't worry.
b.) I like how you attacked my color scheme. In some respect, you're right. I wanted to use a warm and a cool. It's a basic idea when sketching. Warm lights usually project cool shadows. E.G. A yellow light will have a violet shadow. Did you know that? And yes, this drawing was fully rendered in black, white and grey before I threw some color on it to make it interesting. You can see evidence of this in his face.
c.) His face is the prime example of the reflected light source in the shadow. Notice the black "stripe" going down his cheek? That's shadow. The lighter purple area near his jaw? That's reflected light. I don't know why you said my shading was flat.
d.) I'll shut up now because clearly you are the master of anatomy and shading.

Jangle · Sep 17, 2006

Glo-Boy said:
Dude it's a sketch, relax. I've spent years in classes doing this kind of thing. There are a couple of mistakes, that's how sketches go. Your attitude sucks asshole though.

Mate, accept the advice. No need to be so rude. He's only trying to be friendly and help you out by giving you some constructive criticism. Why post your stuff if you don't want people to comment on it? From what I've seen, nofx really knows what he's talking about and you'd do well to listen to him.

nofx · Sep 17, 2006

Glo-Boy said:
Ignored the arms and legs? Dude, this is a sketch of a guy without arms and i didn't feel like doing the legs. How can you look at the muscular structure on his arms that I have begun and try to tell me I have no idea what I'm doing? Especially because I don't use photos for reference. That is, unless it's a reproduction of something, like my al pacino drawing. To me, that's kind of the point. I take critiques very well just not when the person giving them really doesn't know what they're talking about. THAT will get me pissed off.

a.) Next time I post a sketch I will include arms and legs. Don't worry.
b.) I like how you attacked my color scheme. In some respect, you're right. I wanted to use a warm and a cool. It's a basic idea when sketching. Warm lights usually project cool shadows. E.G. A yellow light will have a violet shadow. Did you know that? And yes, this drawing was fully rendered in black, white and grey before I threw some color on it to make it interesting. You can see evidence of this in his face.
c.) His face is the prime example of the reflected light source in the shadow. Notice the black "stripe" going down his cheek? That's shadow. The lighter purple area near his jaw? That's reflected light. I don't know why you said my shading was flat.
d.) I'll shut up now because clearly you are the master of anatomy and shading.

haha some of those sketches are from a long time ago even the legolas one was done around the years 2004 when i had became serious about art, but the latest one from that set was the girl in the orange, i drew that one earlier this year in about 15 seconds on an 18 x 20 sheet FROM LIFE so it doesnt hold for comparision to your work here is an analogous conception why it doesnt hold; thats like me taking a year to write a paper on the history of the americas then you taking 5 minutes to write the same paper.,.. what book do you think will have more information? the book that took five minutes or the book that tooka year to compose. i say this because you did it on the computer there is countless sources for you to find refrence countless amount of time for you to keep tweaking it but when it comes to gesture studies on the now exist lines retract and detract upon themselves i will admit my anatomy isnt so great however i have seen alot ALOT and ALOT^9058930 of artwork and I am giving you honest advice, BUT if i am going to draw a character in photoshop I will be damn sure that i get alot of refrences for posture and i would even take pics of myslef in the same character stance however you said it you cant listen to someone who doesnt know anything about what their talking about sooo its really uselss trying to critique someone with that attitude, thats like saying anyone who views your artwork doesnt know what they are talking about i mean isnt that the purpose of artwork to get other people to like it and understand it or atleast come close to that

CrazyHarij · Sep 17, 2006

it doesnt really matter how good or bad nofx is, the important thing is he's totally right in his arguments (don't underestimate aspiring artists' ability to analyse art just as well as seasoned professionals).

And I'm sure he wasn't trying to patronise you or try to come off as a superior artist. If anything, you should be thankful for someone bothering to take their time analysing your art and suggesting ways for you to improve it to clarify the message to outside bystanders.

Don't read the below if you refuse to accept any critique or suggestions. Keep in mind I'm not trying to establish myself as better than you, I'm trying to help you improving your art.

Personally, I'm curious what you were thinking when you colored this piece. There's no definition of value, the color is all over the place, not defining any blocks or shapes. Using just saturated reds and blues for shadow versus light brings off a very amateurish look.

The character as a whole is very flat, the anatomy is very shallowly defined, as well as there being fundamental anatomical and proportional flaws. I like the design and expression of the face, except for the eyes' relation to the rest of it. I like the setup of the theme and character however, with some improvement this has potential to become a very impressive piece!

I'd suggest you to study anatomy more indepth, relearn human proportions and practice basic perspective. Work on the basics before trying to establish accurate work in more difficult compositions.

If you have no intention to improve technically, disregard my advice.

Finger · Sep 17, 2006

I agree... it sort of makes me sick to see someone lash out at a fellow artist when all he was trying to do was critique your work. That kind of close minded attitude will only stifle your ability to grow as an artist. When you post work in a public forum like this, you have to have a thick enough skin to take honest criticism even if it does sting a little bit. Otherwise, people won't give 3 shits about you, your work, or your plight as an artist.

As for the image. For me, the biggest problem is the actual character design. I don't really feel that his weaponry is particularly efficient or functionally sound. Cutting his arms off at the elbow really cripples his abilty to use any leverage or reach. A soldier witha good spear and shield could take this guy out with ease. Also, if you managed to get behind him and say, grab him in around the throat with your arm, what's he gonna do? He can't adjust the lenght of his mace thingy, so hitting you in a vital spot, like the head or groin to break the hold would be quite a chore with that weapon. Reaching back with the blade arm would be eaqually ineffective.

So yeah, the design makes him look somewhat akward in my opinion.

My favorite part of the drawing is the left shoulder. Nice transition there between shoulder, arm, and chest.

Glo-Boy · Sep 18, 2006

A few things:

I don't know why he has that piece of fur strapped on. It just is.
I don't know why his arms are cut off at the elbows. It's just how I drew it.
I do know why I didn't render his legs - they aren't important to the sketch.

Harij, thanks for actually being constructive. I don't agree with a good portion of what you are criticizing, but you were suggesting things to change. That is the critique. "Anatomy is horrible, I could go on and on" is NOT a proper critique. I handle criticism quite well but I get really pissed off when I do a sketch that took like maybe an hour at most and people fly off the handle to tell me it sucks sucks sucks sucks without really thinking about my intention. I have learned human anatomy and I have learned it very well. In fact, I'll freehand something in mspaint right now just to give you an idea.

Am I DaVinci? Hell no. Craig Mullins? Not a chance. But someone telling my that my anatomy is flat out horrible is um... sort of insulting. That's like telling Kevin Spacey that he's a horrible actor. You may hate him and you may think his movies are kinda eh, but he can act the shit out of Ashton Kutcher.

I'll stop being the asshole in this post and I'll turn it around because hey, why not?

Nofx, if you were trying to be constructive, I severely misinterpretted that. I would suggest that you try to offer more suggestions along with what you don't like at first, otherwise people might take it the wrong way. I'll also take this opportunity to tell you that your improvement is monumental in all of your areas. You seem to have gone from someone who tried to draw pictures to someone who renders images... if you understand what I mean by that. Keep working on it because your dedication to art is powerful.

EDIT: Finger, in my mind he is nine feet tall so no one can pull moves like that on him. He crushes all.

EDIT: Also, the color is there just for slight effect, it's not meant to be realistic. I've extensively studied how color works (and paid a shitload of money for the training too, I might add.) I gave this piece color in probably 5 minutes. I don't see why people are going crazy because it's not realistic... where's the fun?

Krynn72 · Sep 18, 2006

I dont really notice anything particularly wrong with the arms. They look like biceps and shoulders to me. Especially since we dont really know how a guy's arms' musculature would adapt to having only half an arm. :thumbs:

nofx · Sep 18, 2006

Glo-Boy said:
A few things:

I don't know why he has that piece of fur strapped on. It just is.
I don't know why his arms are cut off at the elbows. It's just how I drew it.
I do know why I didn't render his legs - they aren't important to the sketch.

Harij, thanks for actually being constructive. I don't agree with a good portion of what you are criticizing, but you were suggesting things to change. That is the critique. "Anatomy is horrible, I could go on and on" is NOT a proper critique. I handle criticism quite well but I get really pissed off when I do a sketch that took like maybe an hour at most and people fly off the handle to tell me it sucks sucks sucks sucks without really thinking about my intention. I have learned human anatomy and I have learned it very well. In fact, I'll freehand something in mspaint right now just to give you an idea.

Am I DaVinci? Hell no. Craig Mullins? Not a chance. But someone telling my that my anatomy is flat out horrible is um... sort of insulting. That's like telling Kevin Spacey that he's a horrible actor. You may hate him and you may think his movies are kinda eh, but he can act the shit out of Ashton Kutcher.

I'll stop being the asshole in this post and I'll turn it around because hey, why not?

Nofx, if you were trying to be constructive, I severely misinterpretted that. I would suggest that you try to offer more suggestions along with what you don't like at first, otherwise people might take it the wrong way. I'll also take this opportunity to tell you that your improvement is monumental in all of your areas. You seem to have gone from someone who tried to draw pictures to someone who renders images... if you understand what I mean by that. Keep working on it because your dedication to art is powerful.

EDIT: Finger, in my mind he is nine feet tall so no one can pull moves like that on him. He crushes all.

EDIT: Also, the color is there just for slight effect, it's not meant to be realistic. I've extensively studied how color works (and paid a shitload of money for the training too, I might add.) I gave this piece color in probably 5 minutes. I don't see why people are going crazy because it's not realistic... where's the fun?

ya i will apologize for not being more descriptive thats why i followed up my posts to explain why the anatomy felt a bit off i think the sketches you just posted are way better than the stuff up there, weird

CrazyHarij · Sep 18, 2006

maybe i'm too quick at assuming this, but it seems like you have a tendency of avoiding drawing the limbs in further detail. I know because I had the exact same thing, just keeping to sticks in sketches or 'leaving them out' in fuller pieces. try practicing them more

theres good posing, proportion (much better than your above piece) and weight distribution in those sketches but I don't see any depiction of anatomy.

I've extensively studied how color works (and paid a shitload of money for the training too, I might add.)

I have learned human anatomy and I have learned it very well.

No wish to sound condescending, but art education doesn't automatically make you a good artist. I see nothing in your pieces that sets you apart from most aspirants.

Personally, I haven't paid a dime for my drawing interest, except for getting pencils and paper.

If you don't like people picking apart your sketches, why not post completed work instead?

Glo-Boy · Sep 18, 2006

In formal life drawing, arms and legs are ALWAYS rendered last. They are not included in the three moveable masses: the head, the torso, and the hips. They really aren't essential to proper positioning, thus, I worry about them last. That said, I can see why you might think I'm lacking in that department - I'll post some completed work. Out of curiosity, is there a link to where I can view some of yours? I'm always interested in seeing other people's stuff.

CrazyHarij · Sep 18, 2006

Finger · Sep 18, 2006

Glo-Boy said:
In formal life drawing, arms and legs are ALWAYS rendered last. They are not included in the three moveable masses: the head, the torso, and the hips. They really aren't essential to proper positioning, thus, I worry about them last. .

Actually, in formal life drawing, everything is 'rendered' last. The first step, however, includes capturing the 'gesture' of the figure. The gesture does include placement of limbs, as they are essential to capturing the entire weight, balance, and movement of the form. Now you obviously don't have to go out and render finders and toes in a gesture sketch, but if you are exluding placement of limbs, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Those are pretty good gestures, btw. Done from life or pictures? The best is when you can get a live model that shifts position every minute or so forcing you to draw fast.

Glo-Boy · Sep 18, 2006

Well they do form the pose, I mean obviously they're important! But the character doesn't need them in order for the viewer to see what their basic pose will be.

Gestures were just done from my head. I should use reference more. Open model session starts soon at school, I'm so there.

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