Cheney named in CIA probe?

[>>FrEnZy<<]

Noone can really ever know the full truth of anything unless they themselves are personally involved, and even then, there are likely things that they don't even know.

Are you telling me you have foresight into the true nature of things? Or do you somehow ultimately believe that your news sources are 100% factual?

No, I dont have a foresight into the true nature things, and no one can be sure about truth. However, unless your view is based on the attempt to discover the reality of things, then your view is invalid, as it will not be dealing with reality. Thats what Im saying.

The question is, who's attempt to discover the reality about things is more acceptable? For example, a Surgeon and a lumberjack. The surgeons ability to conduct surgeury is more reliable than the lumberjacks ability to do so. This is because, the surgeons view on conducting surgeury is based on years of attempting to discovering the reality about surgeical methods, the way the body works, etc. However the lumberjack's ability to conduct surgeory would be based primarily on improvisation and imagination.

I accept that I am no heart surgeon at deciphering the reality from a mainstream media that aims to propaganderize (if anybody has the proper word for this please tell me) the people. So I refuse to watch mainstream media, and focus on independetly produced media (documentaries, etc) to attain my information as this sort of media is less succeptable to influence and hence are able to provide a closer reality then mainstream media.

 

[Raziaar]

Okay, thank you for addressing my questions. This gets me to my next point and why I simply don't understand you. For some reason you have it implanted in your head that Bush is a good president and you support him. Let me explain to you why this doesn't make any sense.

I don't think he's a good president... He's an average to mediocre president.

You don't support the Bush tax cut, great. The Bush tax cut is one the main factors in bringing our economy down right now. This means you admit Bush is terrible on economy. The first thing Kerry wanted to do was remove this tax cut and bring economy back on the right track. You voted Bush. :|

If I choose everybody for the things they do that I don't disagree with... well then, we'd never have a president... well, at least, i'd never vote, because every president dissapoints in one area or another. Kerry had far more things that made me wary about him as a president, than bush. Besides... President campaigning is usually full of shit, as all canidates say what they're going to do that's good, and never tell what they either do or don't quite know they're going to do yet thats bad.

You do not support the fact that Bush continually appoints his political contributors to high level positions. He has done this over and over again, this is not the first time he appointed an idiot to an important position and it will not be the last. We do not have evidance Kerry wouldn't have done the same but when someone crashes your car in to a ditch you don't ask them to get it out for you which is exactly what you did when you voted Bush.

I don't judge a president based solely on the decisions he makes regarding who he puts into whatever place. Every president is bad in these areas, there's no perfect president... you seem to think that a president's choices have to all be good for everybody(which is impossible), in order for them to retain office. That simply, by the fact that humans are flawed, will never happen, because nobody is perfect. You show me a perfect president, and i'll show you a perfect lie. And you're right, we have no evidence kerry wouldn't have done the same... I believe he very well could have. Its a moot point to talk about Kerry, as he wasn't the one elected. Bush was, and bush was the one who made the bad appointments. I frown on him for that, but it by itself isnt any reason to kick him out of office.

You do not support Bush cutting programs for the poor. This administration has cut these each year since it has been in office and is taking even more extreme steps to make the cuts larger. Kerry promised he would fund these programs and add to them with things like universal health care. You voted Bush. :|

Canidates always promise the world, and only deliver a small slice. It would be the same with Kerry. You can't go on what he SAID he'd do, unless you also go on what bush said he'd do. We ALL know presidents never do everything they promise, and often do things they said they wouldn't. Its our political landscape, full of smooth talkers, and Kerry is one of them, as is bush.

You supported the invasion (so did I but dont anymore) but you realize Bush totally ****ed up the effort after the fact. You also knew Bush got everything wrong in the lead up to war, they were saying there was no doubt Saddam had WMDs, he lied about uranium in africa after knowing it was false, he said the mission would take only days or weeks, he underestimated the amount of troops we needed, he said we would be greeted as liberators, and then he declared mission accomplished when nothing was accomplished. And you voted for Bush :|

I still support the war, as it needs to be resolved. It wasn't in any way handled as smoothly as it should have been. In fact, it was hugely rocky, but I stand by the troops, and the iraqi people, not bush. We now need to focus on what is best for the iraqi people, and right now its not abandoning them. So I continue to stand by the troops. I don't stand back and yell at them calling them baby killers.

So let me ask you this, which policies of Bush do you actually support? Are you starting to understand why I am having such a problem with your blind support for Bush?

You know, honestly I can't answer this question right now, as I don't rightly know. The political landscape with bush has changed alot, and i'm not fully up to date as I don't focus enough strictly on politics.. Its not about me actively supporting bush, its about me seeing him as "not the worst president ever" and getting through his term without the world ending.

I wouldn't call myself a bush supporter... but i'm also not "KILL BUSH, HE SUCKS!" Naysayer either. He's a mediocre president, one of many we've had in this country, since far before i've been born.

Don't label me, because your labels are 90% wrong.

 

[bliink]

Go on topic please.

 

[Raziaar]

Go on topic please.

Sorry. He's been bugging me to respond to it, and told me to come here to do it <shrugs>

 

[bliink]

Sorry. He's been bugging me to respond to it, and told me to come here to do it <shrugs>

"He made me do it" is not an excuse! :upstare:

 

[Raziaar]

"He made me do it" is not an excuse! :upstare:

Bah, fine. sheesh, no need to get so uptight about it. I've stopped.

 

[bliink]

Bah, fine. sheesh, no need to get so uptight about it. I've stopped.

Nothing personal.. but the whole section is a flaming wreck of badly thought-out crap that should be deleted, and I have a job to do.

 

[No Limit]

I don't think he's a good president... He's an average to mediocre president.

You know, honestly I can't answer this question right now, as I don't rightly know.

Okay, you disagree with everything Bush has done (everything I questioned you on) from the economy to his appointments to how he has dealt with the war. You can not name a single position of Bush's that you support but you can name many of Kerry's that you supported. Yet you voted for Bush. This my friend is a dumb voter. I know, I'm a dick for saying it but please, explain to me how else you would describe this. Saying you aren't keeping up with politics is no excuse, if you are not keeping up with politics you have no right to vote. We have these kinds of discussions all the time, if you simply listened to what I had to say you would be more than educated enough to actually make an informed vote; you choose not to.

Kerry had far more things that made me wary about him as a president, than bush.

Such as? Name one position you disagreed with Kerry on.

Canidates always promise the world, and only deliver a small slice. It would be the same with Kerry. You can't go on what he SAID he'd do, unless you also go on what bush said he'd do. We ALL know presidents never do everything they promise, and often do things they said they wouldn't. Its our political landscape, full of smooth talkers, and Kerry is one of them, as is bush.

Yes, that is true in a sense but in the end you get 2 choices. You get one choice that you completely disagree with and another you share similar views with. Voting for the guy that you disagree with simply because you don't beleive eighter is again one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

So I continue to stand by the troops. I don't stand back and yell at them calling them baby killers.

The above quote is ironic as a line down from that you write the following:

Don't label me, because your labels are 90% wrong.

Didn't you just label people that don't support the war as people that call soldiers baby killers and people that don't support the Iraqi people? I would go as far as to say you just implied those people are some how traitors. If you honestly think that way I really can't help you, you might talk softer than ghost but in your head you are no different than that extreme right wing prick.