China's Military Build Up

[No Limit]

Yesterday China passed a resolution that said they could take military action against Taiwan. The US in the past has said they would defend Taiwan as we want democracy to take shape there, and I actually agree with this. However, if China does take military action this will be a huge crisis this decade; worse than anything in the Middle East. China is clearly building up their military and war with China would be a disaster. I honestly hope the Bush administration concentrates on this more than the middle east and I hope Bush won't be arrogant about this whole situation. We will also need the UN in this as I think they will be the best medium to get this resolved.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2&u=/nm/20050315/pl_nm/china_usa_military_dc

 

[Bodacious]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75337

 

[No Limit]

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75337

Today is not my day

I need to start getting more than 3 hours of sleep the night before I work.

 

[Fishlore]

China is scary. The full blown modernization of their military. The sheer size of their standing army and population. Their economy is blistering hot. The amount of steel and oil they'll need to acquire (violently if neccessary) to move from a developing economy to a developed economy. All of this adds up to something not very pretty.

Then imagine them attacking a democracy like Tawain the US and Japan said they would defend at all costs. I see a bad moon rising.

 

[Calanen]

Its kind of disappointing that a lot of their raw materials are coming from Australia. Including uranium. Not too worry - they may give it back to us real soon...................

 

[brink's]

Yesterday China passed a resolution that said they could take military action against Taiwan. The US in the past has said they would defend Taiwan as we want democracy to take shape there, and I actually agree with this. However, if China does take military action this will be a huge crisis this decade; worse than anything in the Middle East. China is clearly building up their military and war with China would be a disaster. I honestly hope the Bush administration concentrates on this more than the middle east and I hope Bush won't be arrogant about this whole situation. We will also need the UN in this as I think they will be the best medium to get this resolved.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=2&u=/nm/20050315/pl_nm/china_usa_military_dc

Maybe they should focus on countries that are actually a threat to the United States and at the moment I can't think of any.

 

[JudgeWorm]

World War III is what's going to happen. US and Japan will go against China, North Korea is going to launch a nuke. US will be tied up with China so that Iraq will be "liberated" and an Islam state will form that will attack Russia and Israel, until Europe gets involved in this affair, and will have to take sides. I'm serious, WWIII is inevitable.

 

[Kebean PFC]

WWIII is inevitable, just as WWI and WWII were, however (call me an armageddonist) this will lead to a general exterminaton of mankind. Or not, it will all depend on if they decide to launch a nuke. If they do, we (America) will, and there you have Armageddon, because after we launch, all other countries will base thier descision to launch on us.

I (unlike most) do believe that Russia will not be a key factor. Right now they have the weapons, but the deployment will be difficult. If i was Russia, when the war with China started, i would land troops in Canada, or on the West Coast. Then America would be fighting a two front war. We would pull back, in order to beat the Russians out, and Tiawan would fall. There would be no reason to continue fighting outside America. The Key to this war will be the U.N. and NATO.

The "invasion" sounds stupid, but if they could pull it off correctly, then it may work. The biggest obsticle they would encounter is resistance from the people (Red Dawn, anyone?). I really think that America needs to concentrate more at home now, we are not the saviours of Democracy. What worked for is will not work for these other countries. Example? Iraq, the fighting is now too far ingrained to be removed so fast. They will continue to fight each other until the inforseeable future.

My $0.02

 

[dart321]

WWIII is inevitable, just as WWI and WWII were, however (call me an armageddonist) this will lead to a general exterminaton of mankind. Or not, it will all depend on if they decide to launch a nuke. If they do, we (America) will, and there you have Armageddon, because after we launch, all other countries will base thier descision to launch on us.

I (unlike most) do believe that Russia will not be a key factor. Right now they have the weapons, but the deployment will be difficult. If i was Russia, when the war with China started, i would land troops in Canada, or on the West Coast. Then America would be fighting a two front war. We would pull back, in order to beat the Russians out, and Tiawan would fall. There would be no reason to continue fighting outside America. The Key to this war will be the U.N. and NATO.

The "invasion" sounds stupid, but if they could pull it off correctly, then it may work. The biggest obsticle they would encounter is resistance from the people (Red Dawn, anyone?). I really think that America needs to concentrate more at home now, we are not the saviours of Democracy. What worked for is will not work for these other countries. Example? Iraq, the fighting is now too far ingrained to be removed so fast. They will continue to fight each other until the inforseeable future.

My $0.02

You've had a lot of time to think about this havent you? There are far too many variables in this equation for anyone to form any kind of accurate battle plan right now. I mean, you're talking like a World War has already started.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

You've had a lot of time to think about this havent you?

He's based in the kremlin...

 

[Zorrander001]

I really feel a conflict with China would quickly progress into an all out nuke war, and when it comes to that I wont have a problem with China being nuked to ashes. The US must remain the world superpower at all costs. It is detrimental to human progression that we do.

 

[fuzzy_aus]

I really feel a conflict with China would quickly progress into an all out nuke war, and when it comes to that I wont have a problem with China being nuked to ashes. The US must remain the world superpower at all costs. It is detrimental to human progression that we do.

Sorry? What are you saying? Looks to me like some rampant racism around here.

Sure Chinas government is still a bit of a dictatorship, but its an open, happy, prosperous country. There is not going to be some kind of all out nuke war, no one is that stupid. If China start getting stupid about Taiwan, then the UN could threaten some sanctions and halt some trade and they would be loving Taiwan just the way it is.

EDIT: I think i would prefer China as a superpower over the US anyway.

 

[diluted]

I'm not sure which is worse, China's military buildup, or America's military buildup. I don't trust either country's government to use their military power responsibly.

I really feel a conflict with China would quickly progress into an all out nuke war, and when it comes to that I wont have a problem with China being nuked to ashes. The US must remain the world superpower at all costs. It is detrimental to human progression that we do.

I guess you won't have a problem with the US and most of the rest of the world 'nuked to ashes' either, because there won't be much of anything left after an 'all out nuke war'. So much for human progression.

 

[kirovman]

I really feel a conflict with China would quickly progress into an all out nuke war, and when it comes to that I wont have a problem with China being nuked to ashes. The US must remain the world superpower at all costs. It is detrimental to human progression that we do.

Pity throughout all of history, no nation has stayed at the top of the superpower league indefinately. Times change. America won't be able to match the changing world and stay a superpower forever. Every nation has its peak and then declines. Look at the British Empire, we controlled 25% of the world at one point. Now we're still an advanced nation, but our influence is not so heavy as it was once...down from 25% of the world's population to 1% the population.

The thing that history does teach us however, is that China has been the richest and powerful nation for a good few thousand years, as well as being a relatively peaceful nation.

Looks like they are determined to reclaim their old status...and I suspect they are going to continue to be 'peaceful'.

They are smart...they don't tend to do invasions, bar a few examples. Historically what they do is send a load of Han Chinese into an area to outbreed the natives. I believe it's an old Chinese strategy, and that's how China is so big today. They have even done it after the Tibetian invasion (under the leadership of Chairman Mao), Tibetans are minorities in Tibet compared to the majority Han Chinese. This makes it very difficult for Tibet to ever become independent in the future.
There are a lot of Chinese in East Russia/Siberia, so this might make it easy for China to justify its invasion in the future.

Trouble with outbreeding is it's not really an act of war, it's a deceitfully peaceful process and there hasn't been much defence against it, until immigration controls in modern times.

The communist party today is still very controlling but they are releasing the grip of power finger by finger, and they have come a long way since the cultural revolution, where everybody was starving, and teachers were sent to work in the farms. Now very few people are actually starving (although a lot are in poverty). It think it is a fair assumption to say that this will be "China's Century".

A lot of the problems there are old problems, including the civil rights issue, which needs to be solved by new and open minds. Which I think they will get in the next 50 years.


Also, I think there's a book called "Yellow Crisis" or something about what would happen if China was so overpopulated and in economic crisis and the borders burst and they flooded all over the world, destabilising the world.

Never read it, but I want to.

 

[Reaper-X]

Apparantly the Bible Code says the world will end in 2006 because of a nuclear war - wonder if this'll be it?

But seriously, I don't trust China with the powers their gaining, I don't mean to be racist in any way, I wouldn't trust any country with a population of 2 billion people, an extremely huge armed forces and nuclear weaponry. Throughout the Cold War even the USSR didn't trust China with nuclear weaponry, saying they were too 'off-hand' about the dangers. If China has been building up it's armed forces saying that it's because it 'considers Taiwan a renegade province that it wants to bring back into the fold', then their just looking for a fight, they want to try their armed forces out, their making excuses.
And I can see North Korea being a factor in this if anything happens. I personally don't see much coming from Russia, they'll need to be provoked before they do anything, they won't jump straight in.

 

[short recoil]

Apparantly the Bible Code says the world will end in 2006 because of a nuclear war - wonder if this'll be it?

Aint it like 2013?........anyway its a load of codswallop so i wouldn't worry.

 

[Cole]

IT isn't 2006. It's around 2012 - 2015...history channel people!
I know there will be a huge huge huge earthquake in LA I think like 2 or 3 years before it.

I think the earthquake is 2008 and Armagdeon is 2012.
Though the earthquake might be 2012 and Arm. 2015.

Something like that but I don't believe in the bible and I think it's crap so...ha!

 

[kirovman]

IT isn't 2006. It's around 2012 - 2015...history channel people!
I know there will be a huge huge huge earthquake in LA I think like 2 or 3 years before it.

I think the earthquake is 2008 and Armagdeon is 2012.
Though the earthquake might be 2012 and Arm. 2015.

Something like that but I don't believe in the bible and I think it's crap so...ha!

Well China doesn't have enough nukes to cause an Armageddon, only a few are capable of actually hitting the USA or Europe, and unless they start a bombardment of their neighbours for no apparent reason there is no reason to get worried about that.

The Armageddon would come from the 5000 or so US nuclear weapons.

Seriosuly the threat of Nuclear Armageddon is really small compared with the 50s and 60s. Nobody uses megatonage bombs anymore, which only the advanced nations are capable of using. Kilotonne warheads are used now, on the scale of the Hiroshima explosions, maybe a bit heavier, because they recognise there is actually no need for megatonne bombs, they just harm civilians rather than military.

Why be scared of China? I have been there, sure they are developing, they have a tarnished human rights recorded, but they are improving, which is what everyone fails to realise.

We were pretty much the same when we were developing countries, only we didn't have the technology to enforce it as much. I'm sure when the country is fully developed eventually, a larger part of their population will demand civil rights. They actually have a human rights section in their new constitution, which will will gradually become enforced.

You are forgetting that the Chinese nation has been largely peaceful. They invented the art of war, but they still prefer to rely on diplomatic procedures. They are not going to seek a war they cannot win. They are not going to initate an Armageddon.

The Prime Minister of China is a Geologist, and the President is a Hydrological Engineer.

Even the Chinese government accepts Mao was mad, they just don't want to "lose face" to say it.
The Chinese government instead prefer to say he was "70% right, 30% wrong". That way, they can keep their precious face.

If you ever want to understand China, you will first need to understand the concept of "Keeping face" that is prevalent in the Far-East. They don't want to admit they are wrong, they will lose face, Remember the SARS crisis? That was kept under wraps for a long time because of the Far-East tradition of keeping face.

My belief is that the communist party is only called the "Communist Party" because to change the name of it, or the style of government would be to lose face to the world. Crazy, but it is believable.

These people aren't going to start a war, they are a relatively peaceful nation.

I don't know if they still want revenge for the injustices of the past though, maybe they are still plotting against the West and Japan, patiently bidding their time.

 

[Zorrander001]

No, the US can't remain the superpower forever. But that isn't whats important. The only thing that is important is that we remain the superpower long enough. This age of nation fighting nation is nearly at an end. Since the conception of human civilization, we have fought one another for dominance. Tribes turned into kingdoms, kingdoms turned into superkingdoms, then we come to this global system of nations. It is a vicious race that will play out until the most powerful has won and claimed the prize. The only peace until this is done is merely temporary. The world is like a giant Highlander movie, and there can be only one. Within my lifetime we will begin to see the institution of a one world government. The ideals of this government will be decided mostly by the ideals of the most powerful nations involved in it's formation. If you are comfortable with a ruling world power based on Chinese ideals, I pitty you. The ideals of the United States have long been the most enlightened of al lthe world, and the only true hope for mankind is that it is under these ideals that we are united.

The world will eventually fall under the rule of one government, one institution, one set of ideals, and it must be that of the United States, or the human race is doomed. Thats the simple truth of it.

 

[The Mullinator]

Well China doesn't have enough nukes to cause an Armageddon, only a few are capable of actually hitting the USA or Europe, and unless they start a bombardment of their neighbours for no apparent reason there is no reason to get worried about that.

The Armageddon would come from the 5000 or so US nuclear weapons.

Seriosuly the threat of Nuclear Armageddon is really small compared with the 50s and 60s. Nobody uses megatonage bombs anymore, which only the advanced nations are capable of using. Kilotonne warheads are used now, on the scale of the Hiroshima explosions, maybe a bit heavier, because they recognise there is actually no need for megatonne bombs, they just harm civilians rather than military.

Why be scared of China? I have been there, sure they are developing, they have a tarnished human rights recorded, but they are improving, which is what everyone fails to realise.

We were pretty much the same when we were developing countries, only we didn't have the technology to enforce it as much. I'm sure when the country is fully developed eventually, a larger part of their population will demand civil rights. They actually have a human rights section in their new constitution, which will will gradually become enforced.

You are forgetting that the Chinese nation has been largely peaceful. They invented the art of war, but they still prefer to rely on diplomatic procedures. They are not going to seek a war they cannot win. They are not going to initate an Armageddon.

The Prime Minister of China is a Geologist, and the President is a Hydrological Engineer.

Even the Chinese government accepts Mao was mad, they just don't want to "lose face" to say it.
The Chinese government instead prefer to say he was "70% right, 30% wrong". That way, they can keep their precious face.

If you ever want to understand China, you will first need to understand the concept of "Keeping face" that is prevalent in the Far-East. They don't want to admit they are wrong, they will lose face, Remember the SARS crisis? That was kept under wraps for a long time because of the Far-East tradition of keeping face.

My belief is that the communist party is only called the "Communist Party" because to change the name of it, or the style of government would be to lose face to the world. Crazy, but it is believable.

These people aren't going to start a war, they are a relatively peaceful nation.

I don't know if they still want revenge for the injustices of the past though, maybe they are still plotting against the West and Japan, patiently bidding their time.

Whats scary is not the fact that China is getting more powerful. Its the fact that there may end up being another super power in the world. Having one super power in the world is far better than having two.

 

[short recoil]

Whats scary is not the fact that China is getting more powerful. Its the fact that there may end up being another super power in the world. Having one super power in the world is far better than having two.

Why isn't it scary about america being powerful?
IMO america is more dangerous than china.

 

[The Mullinator]

Why isn't it scary about america being powerful?
IMO america is more dangerous than china.

One super power is far safer to have than two. Look what happened the last time there was two.

 

[kirovman]

Why isn't it scary about america being powerful?
IMO america is more dangerous than china.

I think you may be right, but for now it's just educated speculation. Time will tell.

I think China has historically been very peaceful when you compare it with Europe. When you look at Europeans and Americans, you lot and see that we are very hot blooded people with a passion.

Someone from China told me that the Chinese nation lacks testosterone (not sure if that was a metaphor), so previously they lacked the passion and and will to stand up for themselves, and lacked the ability to think about number 1, themselves. Only now, after being told to stand up for themselves (or rather, their nation) do they realise their potential and their goals for themselves.

 

[short recoil]

I think you may be right, but for now it's just educated speculation. Time will tell.

I think China has historically been very peaceful when you compare it with Europe. When you look at Europeans and Americans, you lot and see that we are very hot blooded people with a passion.

Someone from China told me that the Chinese nation lacks testosterone (not sure if that was a metaphor), so previously they lacked the passion and and will to stand up for themselves, and lacked the ability to think about number 1, themselves. Only now, after being told to stand up for themselves (or rather, their nation) do they realise their potential and their goals for themselves.

I see china as a country that thinks for itself, wants peace and to get on with life.
They pose little threat in my opinion, i doubt a war between america and china would ever happen.......what would be gained from it?

 

[Reaper-X]

Aint it like 2013?........anyway its a load of codswallop so i wouldn't worry.

I watched a documentary on Sky about it, said it was supposed to be 2006.
Actually, I just found this;

The text of the bible, and the code within in seem to work together predicting a huge destructive battle (World War III) that will begin with a battle between Israel and the surrounding Arab nations. This battle will most likely be fought with atomic weapons. This war will perhaps occur in the years 2000 or 2006.

http://www.crawford2000.co.uk/bible_code.htm
Maybe it won't be China then.

Does the MAD principal still apply to the world or did the US step down it's offensive/defensive weaponry so much that it won't happen? If it still applies, nuclear holocaust would be vey easy to come about, just hit the US with a nuke and see what happens.

China could just be flexing her muscles, hoping that Taiwan will submit under enough pressure. They probably have no idea what they'll do if Taiwan doesn't submit. You never know what a country will do when faced with the unexpected. Especially one as powerful as China.

 

[Phat-t]

I watched a documentary on Sky about it, said it was supposed to be 2006.

If the bible says it, then it must be true.

 

[PvtRyan]

Pfft... the Bible code, if it's the code I'm thinking off, it's bullshit, those kind of predicitions have also been found in Moby Dick and any text of sufficient length.

 

[willyd]

Aint it like 2013?........anyway its a load of codswallop so i wouldn't worry.

2013 is when the aztecs believe the world will end.

 

[Korgoth]

well the world has already ended for the aztecs so if they were predicting their demise then they missed the date by a wee bit

 

[Scoobnfl]

Sorry? What are you saying? Looks to me like some rampant racism around here.

Sure Chinas government is still a bit of a dictatorship, but its an open, happy, prosperous country. There is not going to be some kind of all out nuke war, no one is that stupid. If China start getting stupid about Taiwan, then the UN could threaten some sanctions and halt some trade and they would be loving Taiwan just the way it is.

EDIT: I think i would prefer China as a superpower over the US anyway.

What are your feelings on the forced abortions in China, their brutal oppression of Tibet, their re-education camps, and the 20,000+ they killed in Tiananmen square?