Chronicles of the Disappearing License

[Graviton]

I had to share this with the community. I know others have had similar problems, but I have yet to see any actual communications with Valve on this subject. To that end, I have undertaken the task of trying to get full use of my two licenses for Half-Life 1. Be forewarned that Valve considers you guilty (of I'm not quite sure what) until proven innocent.

Also, this will serve as a bit of forewarning (to the 5 people left in the world who haven't bought HL2 yet I guess): If you purchase a HL2 package that includes HL1, don't add it to the same Steam account that you have an already purchased copy of HL1 on unless you want to lose it.

NOTE: The following is cut and pasted from my latest email from Valve. All I have done is cut out the "non-dialog" portions of the email (basically the standard header and footer stuff) and then rearranged the comments in chronological order and placed separators between them for easier reading.

Customer (Michael Pitt) - 12/18/2005 02:33 PM
Perhaps things have changed, but back when I first purchased Half-Life 2 - Silver Package, it never properly informed me that Steam doesn't handle "overlapping" licenses properly. I had already used my original Half-Life key with my account and when I purchased HL2 it didn't quite work as expected (i.e. I can only have one system running HL1 at a time). Believe me, if I had known I'd basically be throwing away the $50 I paid for HL1, I would have made a second Steam account instead. The more I think about it, the more that bothers me. Besides being useful for playing with friends and testing new server configs, there's also the principal of the thing. I should rightfully be able to use the game that I have paid for already, and I shouldn't have to pay you more money to get it swapped to
another account where I can actually use it (like that one support article I found while searching around here). I tried adding the HL1 key to a second account jsut to see what would happen, and of course it didn't work. Can you please move my HL1 key from my "Graviton" account to my "Graviton2" account? Thank you.
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Response (Adam) - 12/21/2005 01:27 PM
Hello,

I apologize for any difficulty you may have encountered in registering your account.

To ensure that we have proof that you are the owner of the physical CD Key, we request that you complete the CD Key reset process - please follow the link below for instructions:

Title: Steam says my CD-Key is already in use when I try to register it. How do I reset my CD key?
URL: http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=70

Please note: A Sierra Half-Life CD Key or Counter-Strike CD Key unlocks more than the retail game in the Steam system. It includes:

Half-Life
Counter-Strike
Day of Defeat
Team Fortress Classic
Deathmatch Classic
Ricochet
Opposing Force

(For this reason the cost of mailing us the CD Key and the $10 USD CD Key reset service charge are reasonable expenses to verify your ownership of the game - purchased separately, these games would cost $74.65 USD)

You do not need to pay the $10 USD service charge if you can provide a copy of your purchase receipt for the game with the CD Key reset form.

We must verify that you are the original purchaser of the CD Key to waive the service charge - if you cannot verify that you are the original purchaser, the service charge will apply.
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Customer (Michael Pitt) - 12/22/2005 04:05 AM
Thank you for your reply. Perhaps there has been some confusion. I just want what I paid for, and transferring the Half-Life CD key seemed the easiest way to accomplish that goal for both of us. I had Half-Life working just fine through Steam prior to purchasing Half-Life 2. The problem is that I am unable to use that second license for Half-Life (and related games) that I purchased as part of the Half-Life 2 Silver Package. Simply because the product I purchased represented a good retail value, that
is not an excuse for essentially holding it for a ransom of an additional $10 (plus postage and loss of my "vintage" CD case). I have already done everything required of me to prove my ownership and register my half-Life CD key with Steam. This only required entering the CD key into the Steam application, and did not require sending any physical materials to Valve Corporation. In any case, I am obviously the owner of the particular steam account in question as well as the email address associated with
that account. The main issue is that your Steam application is currently unable to provide all of the services which you have advertised, promised, and for which I have already paid. That is your fault and not mine. I have waited and waited for that to be fixed, but that has not yet happened. There are several reasonable resolutions to this matter that would fulfill your obligations to me:

1. You could transfer my original Half-Life CD key to my second account as I have requested. This would serve to sidestep the limitations in your Steam application.

2. You could transfer my Half-Life 2 license to my second account. This would accomplish the same thing as Option 1.

3. You could update your Steam application so that it properly provides services to those who have paid for them and have encountered the same limitations that I have. In particular, I am referring to the ability to run as many copies of a game simultaneously as the user has licenses (even if all of the licenses are tied to the same user account). This would probably be the best option for both you and all of your customers.

4. Since you have stated in writing that the services you are withholding have a combined value of $75, then you could leave things as they are and simply mail me a check for that amount.

Please do not ask me again to pay you more money for services which I have already paid for and have not received. Additionally, I am also fairly certain that false advertising is illegal in both of our states. I'm not trying to be rude. Like I said before, I just hope it's a little misunderstanding. I'm trying to be as clear as possible so as to avoid having to go through all of the work contacting someone else at Valve Corporation or filing an FTC complaint. Thank you for your time.

- Michael Pitt
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Response (Adam) - 12/22/2005 08:27 AM
Hello,

As stated in the CD Key reset instructions, you do not need to pay the $10 USD service charge if you can provide a copy of your purchase receipt for the game with the CD Key reset form.

It is the established policy to verify that you are the original purchaser of the CD Key in order to waive the service charge, however, I will request that an exception be made if you can mail us the completed CD Key reset form with Case 051218-000324 referenced in the top margin.

Upon reviewing the materials you provide, we will be able to waive the service charge and transfer your Platinum subscription to the account specified in the CD Key reset form.

If you have any questions about the CD Key reset process, please notify us.

So that's where I'm at now. So I don't owe them anything (excepting postage and my time) for their screw-up. Wow... how kind of them. Now we just need to get over this sudden need for the most ultimate proof that I own the copy of Half-Life 1 I've been using forever. What I don't understand is that in the Steam fine print it's pretty clear that subscriptions completely replace the need for CD keys -- it's all digital now. If you have the username and password, you "own" the account and any subscriptions attached to it (which is why you should never ever give out that information). Next, they'll be asking me for a blood test...

Stay tuned...

- Michael

 

[Bull Goose Loony]

"4. Since you have stated in writing that the services you are withholding have a combined value of $75, then you could leave things as they are and simply mail me a check for that amount."

thats awesome....

but seriously, i thought everyone that bought hl when it came out eight years ago would have the foresight to keep their original receipt...:|

 

[BillyJoBob]

Hmm that’s weird.

I bought an hl2 package that included HL1 with an account that already had HL1 installed (from an old Half-Life 1 cd key I found) and things have been working just fine for me I didnt lose the game, sorry you’re having trouble.

 

[Top Secret]

Hmm that’s weird.

I bought an hl2 package that included HL1 with an account that already had HL1 installed (from an old Half-Life 1 cd key I found) and things have been working just fine for me I didnt lose the game, sorry you’re having trouble.

No no. He's talking about the original copy of Half-Life that he purchased. It was effectivly "over-written" when he purhcased the *new* half-life 1. Which isn't right. He should technically own 2 copies of Half-Life and be able to access either one at any given time. But he can't.

 

[BillyJoBob]

OH crap, sorry I misunderstood.

Ignore my above post, heh.

 

[Qhartb]

Well, I'm not placing blame on you or Valve, but what did you expect would happen? I was close to doing the exact same thing as you when I bought Half-life 2, then I thought "hey, wait, that'll overwrite my existing half-life liscence. I'd better make a new account."

I really don't want to sound like I'm bragging about having good foresight or anything, and I'm not taking sides. I wouldn't be happy in your situation either. I'm just wondering what you expected to happen when you tried to activate the same product multiple times on the same account.

 

[Graviton]

I'm just wondering what you expected to happen when you tried to activate the same product multiple times on the same account.

To answer your question: I don't really recall. It was a good while ago. I know that I was worried about it right after I did it though. However, that is very much beside the point. It's what happened after I tried contacting Valve that is the problem. Let me illustrate...

Let's say I do the following things:

1. I call some company and purchase an "Item A"
2. I call back a little while later and order an "Item B" and another "Item A". They offer to add them to the same order for my convenience. I'm a little worried there might be some confusion later on with my order if they do, but I go ahead and let they do it anyway. I figure it wouldn't be a big deal to sort thing out later if they do mix things up. They add the items to the order and I pay the difference.
3. I only receive one of each item in the mail.
4. I wait a few weeks for a second package to arrive, but nothing does.
5. I call to inform them of what I figure is just an honest mistake and they refuse to simply refund my money or send another "Item A". However, they do say they will send another "Item A" if I send them the packaging from the "Item A" that I did receive and an additional $10.

What I have just described the company doing is not only wrong - it's illegal. It's also exactly what happened to me with Valve... with the following exceptions:

- I ordered a digital download from the internet instead of a physical item.
- The items were HL1 and HL2.
- I waited months instead of weeks before complaining.
- The "packaging" they are asking for is the HL1 CD case.

I'm not sure if requesting the HL1 CD case would be considered "fair" under the law, but it's pretty ridiculous. Proving I own the first copy of HL1 has nothing to do with the fact that I did not (at least functionally) receive the second copy as part of the Half-Life 2 Silver Package. Furthermore, if having the Steam subscription is my legal right to use HL1 over steam (as their license clearly says), then why do they need the CD case? It makes no sense at all. It's just useless hoops to jump through, wasted time, and wasted money.

I realize the entire text of my dealings with Valve might have been a little hard to follow. I hope that makes it clearer.

- Michael

 

[CrazyHarij]

Interesting, keep us posted.

 

[Beerdude26]

In any case, I am obviously the owner of the particular steam account in question as well as the email address associated with
that account.

(You also state you have possession of the CD-key)

You see, anyone can steal someone else's account if they allow this.
You install a keylogger, and sooner or later you'll end up with his password, his username, his email (and his email password) and his CD-key.
Or, you could break into a cybercafé, get the data for all the usernames, and then sell the accounts for huge profit.
Valve isn't going to ask for something if it serves no purpose.

BTW, isn't all this in the EULA?

 

[Insano]

They overwrote my CS: CZ and HL with Silver account, so I'd like to know how this turns out

 

[MetalliMyers]

I had the same isssue, I just emailed valve, gave them my cd key and my account and they released that cd key from my account so I could use it else where.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

I had the same isssue, I just emailed valve, gave them my cd key and my account and they released that cd key from my account so I could use it else where.

Yeah this is the only issue I've seen, there has been SEVERAL posts about cdkey needing to be released via Steam accounts of steampowered.com forums and usually it is solved very fast.

"Be forewarned that Valve considers you guilty (of I'm not quite sure what) until proven innocent."

Well considering they probably have so many difficulties with cdkey usage via keygen's what do you expect them to do? I doubt they consider you "guilty until proven innocent," they are just going by your info alone.

 

[Qhartb]

To answer your question: I don't really recall. It was a good while ago. I know that I was worried about it right after I did it though. However, that is very much beside the point. It's what happened after I tried contacting Valve that is the problem. Let me illustrate...

Let's say I do the following things:

1. I call some company and purchase an "Item A"
2. I call back a little while later and order an "Item B" and another "Item A". They offer to add them to the same order for my convenience. I'm a little worried there might be some confusion later on with my order if they do, but I go ahead and let they do it anyway. I figure it wouldn't be a big deal to sort thing out later if they do mix things up. They add the items to the order and I pay the difference.
3. I only receive one of each item in the mail.
4. I wait a few weeks for a second package to arrive, but nothing does.
5. I call to inform them of what I figure is just an honest mistake and they refuse to simply refund my money or send another "Item A". However, they do say they will send another "Item A" if I send them the packaging from the "Item A" that I did receive and an additional $10.

What I have just described the company doing is not only wrong - it's illegal. It's also exactly what happened to me with Valve... with the following exceptions:

- I ordered a digital download from the internet instead of a physical item.
- The items were HL1 and HL2.
- I waited months instead of weeks before complaining.
- The "packaging" they are asking for is the HL1 CD case.

I'm not sure if requesting the HL1 CD case would be considered "fair" under the law, but it's pretty ridiculous. Proving I own the first copy of HL1 has nothing to do with the fact that I did not (at least functionally) receive the second copy as part of the Half-Life 2 Silver Package. Furthermore, if having the Steam subscription is my legal right to use HL1 over steam (as their license clearly says), then why do they need the CD case? It makes no sense at all. It's just useless hoops to jump through, wasted time, and wasted money.

I realize the entire text of my dealings with Valve might have been a little hard to follow. I hope that makes it clearer.

- Michael

1. I get a ticket to go to Disney World.
2. I get a superticket that allows me to go to all Disney parks. I actually have in my hand all that I paid for: two tickets.
3. I go through the front gates using both tickets.
4. I look around for the second Disney World I payed for, but can't find it.
5. Disney doesn't give me a refund unless I prove that I actually paid for two tickets and that they were not used by two different people.

Also analogous to your situation. Closer to the way Steam works, but farther from the way you usually buy games. In this one the company seems more clearly in the right. Analogies don't alway preserve the sense of right and wrong.

I'm not sure how tightly a cd-key and an account are associated after the activation. A likely system on their end would be to mark your account as "allowed to play these games" and then mark your cd-key as "used," without actually keeping the cd-key and the account together after that. (Even if more bookkeeping is kept, this is likely how the highest level works.) At the end of the day the system knows that the cd-key was used and the account has those games, but not that that specific cd-key allowed that account to play those games. If this is the case, Valve's information is pretty similar to Disney's: they know that ticket number blahblahblah was used, and they know that you got into the park somehow, so you must have had a ticket, but need you to show that you used the first ticket.

 

[Graviton]

To MetalliMyers::

:frown: I'm jealous if that is the case... I actually wish a different person got to read my emails every time (instead of just this "Adam" guy). I wonder if different support persons would do different things.

To DiSTuRbEd:

There are indeed many posts about this sort of thing on the Steam forums. However, I have never personally seen a single one which was resolved by email alone. And keygens have nothing at all to do with my issue and does not explain or excuse their response to it. I already had a completely working copy of HL1 over steam. That key is still associated with my Steam account. I am not trying to use that key and having difficulties with Steam telling me that the key has already been used. In such a case I can see your logic. They would need to determine whether I couldn't use the key because someone stole it (by happening to generate the same one with a keygen), whether it is really my own key, or whether it was one of those keys that Sierra accidentally printed duplicates of.

 

[Graviton]

1. I get a ticket to go to Disney World.
2. I get a superticket that allows me to go to all Disney parks. I actually have in my hand all that I paid for: two tickets.
3. I go through the front gates using both tickets.
4. I look around for the second Disney World I payed for, but can't find it.
5. Disney doesn't give me a refund unless I prove that I actually paid for two tickets and that they were not used by two different people.

Also analogous to your situation. Closer to the way Steam works, but farther from the way you usually buy games. In this one the company seems more clearly in the right. Analogies don't alway preserve the sense of right and wrong.

I'm not sure how tightly a cd-key and an account are associated after the activation. A likely system on their end would be to mark your account as "allowed to play these games" and then mark your cd-key as "used," without actually keeping the cd-key and the account together after that. (Even if more bookkeeping is kept, this is likely how the highest level works.) At the end of the day the system knows that the cd-key was used and the account has those games, but not that that specific cd-key allowed that account to play those games. If this is the case, Valve's information is pretty similar to Disney's: they know that ticket number blahblahblah was used, and they know that you got into the park somehow, so you must have had a ticket, but need you to show that you used the first ticket.

I'm sorry. That is not a proper analogy. Let me explain: You can use Steam on more than one PC at the same time. You can use one copy and let your brother use the other for a deathmatch game for instance. A single person can even use two copies when they have two workstations side-by-side (as I have). Currently Steam has trouble with "overlapping" licenses on the same account, but only because they have not fixed it to do so (which is the problem). In your analogy this must be represented by having two people and having the tickets split between them. If we adjust your analogy to account for this (by adding a second person who has that second ticket), then you can clearly see that Disney must refund the money for one of the tickets if they don't let both people into the park (if the park is open at the time of course). The only reason they could refuse to do either is if that person was a danger to the others in the park (e.g. a pickpocket) or otherwise violated the fine print they usually have on those tickets. To complete the analogy, they would also have to ask you to prove you had the first ticket when you went to use the superticket just as Valve has asked for my HL1 CD case in order to let me use HL2 Silver Package fully. As you can see, that makes no sense. An analogy must "preserve the sense of right and wrong" if right and wrong are what you wish to illustrate with that particular analogy. If it does not, then it's a bad analogy.

Also, Valve does indeed associate the keys with the accounts. The discussions on the Steam forums, the comments of their support staff, and other Valve documents make that very clear.

- Michael

 

[Graviton]

More from Valve... but nothing useful. Notice some of my writings from this thread? Hey... why reinvent the wheel?:

Customer (Michael Pitt) - 12/23/2005 04:05 AM
I thank you for waving the service charge. However, that's not really the end of the matter. Let's say I do the following things:

1. I call some company and purchase an "Item A"
2. I call back a little while later and order an "Item B" and another "Item A". They offer to add them to the same order for my convenience. I'm a little worried there might be some confusion later on with my order if they do, but I go ahead and let they do it anyway. I figure it wouldn't be a big deal to sort thing out later if they do mix things up. They add the items to the order and I pay the difference.
3. I only receive one of each item in the mail.
4. I wait some length of time for a second package to arrive, but nothing does.
5. I call to inform them of what I figure is just an honest mistake and they refuse to simply refund my money or send another "Item A". However, they do say they will send another "Item A" if I send them the packaging from the "Item A" that I did receive and an additional $10.


This is essentially what has happened to me, but with digital downloads instead of physical products. You have waved the service charge, so that part is rectified. However, proving I own the first copy of Half-Life has nothing to do with the fact that I did not (at least functionally) receive the second copy as part of the Half-Life 2 Silver Package. Why must I send in the CD case? I can kind of understand the policy when people sell or give away their used copies of the game. Steam was never a part of
the original game or EULA, and so if Valve wants to charge a fee I guess they can do so becasue of that technicality. However, I don't even really want it transferred. It's just the only way to get it working. Valve has yet to update Steam to support these different combinations of subscriptions properly. Like you said, it's $75 worth of subscriptions at issue here, so it's no small matter. I know that I'm not the only one who has this problem and it's just not right to make us all jump through these
hoops when we didn't do anything wrong. I realize that Valve may not be able to tell the difference between those who genuinely wish to use both of their Half-Life subscriptions simultaneously and those who are really only selling their old copies of Half-Life. However, until you update steam to provide everything that we have paid for, the solution should not be to punish everyone just because we want to get our games working. I may or may not send in my CD case. I really shouldn't have to. In any case, I don't want anyone else to be cheated out of $10 and shipping charges. I suppose I could contact Gabe directly regarding this issue, and I may do that. However, please pass along the real need for a Steam update to the powers that be. Thank you.
----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------
Response (Adam) - 12/23/2005 09:34 AM
Hello,

I can appreciate your position on this matter - I can assure you that this matter has already been reviewed at length (which is why the CD Key reset process was instituted).

Please let us know if you have any further questions about the CD Key reset process, or if you encounter any further difficulty.

Hmmm... so they reviewed the process "at length"... and still decided to screw people. Huh? Well that just makes it worse...

- Michael

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Hmmm... so they reviewed the process "at length"... and still decided to screw people. Huh? Well that just makes it worse...

- Michael

You know, you bad mouth them, you want thier help... How about you be a big man and post over on their own forums, so they can read it....

 

[Qhartb]

I'm sorry. That is not a proper analogy. Let me explain: You can use Steam on more than one PC at the same time. You can use one copy and let your brother use the other for a deathmatch game for instance. A single person can even use two copies when they have two workstations side-by-side (as I have). Currently Steam has trouble with "overlapping" licenses on the same account, but only because they have not fixed it to do so (which is the problem). In your analogy this must be represented by having two people and having the tickets split between them. If we adjust your analogy to account for this (by adding a second person who has that second ticket), then you can clearly see that Disney must refund the money for one of the tickets if they don't let both people into the park (if the park is open at the time of course). The only reason they could refuse to do either is if that person was a danger to the others in the park (e.g. a pickpocket) or otherwise violated the fine print they usually have on those tickets. To complete the analogy, they would also have to ask you to prove you had the first ticket when you went to use the superticket just as Valve has asked for my HL1 CD case in order to let me use HL2 Silver Package fully. As you can see, that makes no sense. An analogy must "preserve the sense of right and wrong" if right and wrong are what you wish to illustrate with that particular analogy. If it does not, then it's a bad analogy.

Also, Valve does indeed associate the keys with the accounts. The discussions on the Steam forums, the comments of their support staff, and other Valve documents make that very clear.

- Michael

I'm not sure you understood the purpose of my post. I agree that it's nice when analogies "preserve the sense of right and wrong," but just making the analogy doesn't prove anything. In this case, you can make one analogy that makes the company right and another that makes the company wrong. That doesn't mean that either is a "bad analogy"; it means that they capture different aspects of situation. You can make pretty clear analogies between a Nazi death camp and a meat processing plant. That doesn't mean that they're both moral or immoral.

(Oh, and one thing that may clear things up a bit: in my analogy park customers were Steam accounts, not Steam users. And I'll agree that adding a second person to my analogy fixes things: if you'd created another account, you wouldn't have this problem. Also, you're overextending the analogy. There was no mention at all of not admitting a customer or kicking people out of the park or the park not being open. As an aside, once you're in the park, most parks are allowed to kick anyone out for any reason without refund. They don't, since there's not reason to make the effort and because if they did it too often for bad reasons, they'd piss of their customers. But if you read the fine print, it's within their rights.)

 

[Graviton]

You know, you bad mouth them, you want thier help... How about you be a big man and post over on their own forums, so they can read it....

Huh? I emailed them so they could read it. I did not post at the Steam forums though (thanks for not asking if I did), but only because they are an absolute mess of nearly unread posts and off-topic posts so it's pointless to post there if you really want intelligent discussion or if you want anybody to actually read it. I don't really understand why you're being insulting.