Church goers more likely to support torture

[CptStern]

The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey.

More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according to the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it.

WWJD? goddam hypocrites. I guess it isnt torture unless they're made to wear a thorn of crowns, are publically whipped, forced to carry a wooden cross and then endure thousands of years of people butchering your teachings for their own good

People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it.

oh that's not surprising. people who dont subscribe to fairtales are less likely to believe the fairy tale that torture is justified or necessary

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/30/religion.torture/index.html

 

[Ravioli]

Cool. I do trust you, but can you supply us with the source? I want to show it to a few friends.

 

[CptStern]

done.

 

[Maturin]

It's part of the assumption, "since we are good, and we are forced by circumstances to do bad things, our circumstances must be grounds for excusing those things, making them good."

"Since God is on our side, if we do a bad thing and have no choice, it isn't bad."

It is understandable and acceptable for a soldier to shoot a terrorist and save lives, but it is still wrong to kill him, you dumbasses.

 

[Tyguy]

^ Religious Nutjob

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

His post is very confusing, but I think he's actually on the 'same side' as people in the thread. I think.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

^ That's what I got out of his post.

 

[jverne]

actually that's not one bit surprising...remember the US soldier who was discharged from the military because he's an atheist. i think the argument was that he could not fight as good without god by his side.

 

[Sheepo]

^ Religious Nutjob

I believe you've completely misunderstood him, but I'm not sure either.

 

[barbarbarbarbar]

Before i publicly bash religion , are we all atheists here ?

 

[Dog--]

What's with all this hype over torture lately?

 

[Sheepo]

Before i publicly bash religion , are we all atheists here ?

lol, I think we have one active Christian member. This is a forum where you can expect some form of religion bashing on a regular basis. No one will be offended, and it'll probably not be information or opinions any of us haven't already considered. But you can go ahead if you want

 

[gFrohman]

As said by George Carlin, and I think it's very valid despite the fact that he was a comedian (RIP!):

More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason (the Crusades, 9/11, the radical Islamic movement, HAMAS, Osama bin Laden, Salem Witch Trials, etc.).

Granted, lots of people die during wars (WWII, etc.), but many of these mass murderings tend to have some sort of religious overtone.

 

[Eejit]

Actually more people have probably died due to nationalism or political ideology - Napoleonic Wars, the two World Wars, Stalin's Gulags, etc.

 

[CptStern]

What's with all this hype over torture lately?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/us/politics/17detain.html

 

[Polaris]

Americans are always digging the mindset of the party they follow. So, if I'm a true believer I vote for team red and I subscribe to the most "conservative" ideas they have.

actually that's not one bit surprising...remember the US soldier who was discharged from the military because he's an atheist. i think the argument was that he could not fight as good without god by his side.

I doubt that ever happend. According to some poll there is at least 20% of atheist in the US Army.

 

[Escaep]

More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason (the Crusades, 9/11, the radical Islamic movement, HAMAS, Osama bin Laden, Salem Witch Trials, etc.).

Oh really? Wheres the proof?

 

[Sheepo]

Um, any history book or the internet? Are you really not aware of these historical events?

 

[Escaep]

Um, any history book or the internet? Are you really not aware of these historical events?

I know the answer, and it is not what you think. But I am curious to where his statistics come from.

 

[jverne]

I doubt that ever happend. According to some poll there is at least 20% of atheist in the US Army.

http://www.neatorama.com/2008/07/08/atheist-soldier-sues-army-for-discrimination/

His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety.

not exactly as i said it but pretty close

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

I'm no statistician, but I doubt 54% and 6 out of 10 is significant when n is only 742, if we are assuming an equal probability of answering "yes" or "no" to supporting torture.

Hell, I don't think a survey size of 742 is enough to get accurate poll results for any question.

(Atheist against torture)

 

[Saturos]

I don't consider probably %60 of church goers true christians tbh. Many of them are hypocrites.

Also, many of the terrorists are hypocrites too according to so-called true Muslims.

Futhermore, how is it possible to nicely interrogate religious extremist POWs when they're willing to take any kind of punishment "in the name of Allah" while twisting the Muslim/Islam doctrine in their favor, much less if they're asked nicely?

 

[Raziaar]

Isn't this a whole good bit of that whole correlation does not imply causation thing?

 

[delusional]

I'm no statistician, but I doubt 54% and 6 out of 10 is significant when n is only 742, if we are assuming an equal probability of answering "yes" or "no" to supporting torture.

Hell, I don't think a survey size of 742 is enough to get accurate poll results for any question.

(Atheist against torture)

The sample size is perfectly fine. All that matters is that the sample taking was completely random.

 

[Saturos]

Sweeping generalizations piss me off. Not all christians are "burn them at the stake" zealots and maybe many of them are just misinformed. Just like millions of other institutionalized spoiled Americans.

I believe in a fair trial/interrogation first. Unless of course millions of American lives are in immediate danger, (i.e. imminent nuclear threat unless the POW gave the interrogators the deactivation codes) then I see nothing wrong with it.

I'm assuming though the interrogators probably waterboarded first and asked questions later. Any other interrogation not involving the immediate well-being of millions of lives can and should be taken with more moderation.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

The sample size is perfectly fine. All that matters is that the sample taking was completely random.

Well the sample size does matter for giving enough confidence. I looked it up and for a population of 300 million U.S. citizens and a sample size of 742 you get a 95% confidence interval of ±3.5 on the poll. But that's the sample size of the entire population, including those who "seldom or never" go to church, and if you were to break it down into the groups the results get much less significant. Yes the statistics show a pattern, but is it conclusive for us to condemn religion because of it? I don't think so.

Also from the same article:

It did not include analysis of groups other than white evangelicals, white non-Hispanic Catholics, white mainline Protestants and the religiously unaffiliated, because the sample size was too small.

So I'll say it again: this survey doesn't have significant enough figures for me to get up in arms about.

 

[Maturin]

Sweeping generalizations piss me off. Not all christians are "burn them at the stake" zealots and maybe many of them are just misinformed. Just like millions of other institutionalized spoiled Americans.

The poll broke down the responses by sect, so it simply records what percentage of each denomination are "burn them at the stakers."