Clarification: Scripted or not?

[Narcolepsy]

Originally posted by Chazz
Well of course there's scripting. The game can't spontaneously create reaction algorithms, self-generate animations, or summon up unholy powers to create new ways to get around things.

What that line, "look for cool things to do" means, is that the AI will have a set number of scripts that it will search through. For instance, you run into a room and close a door behind you. The AI could:

A) Break down the door with attacks, if possible.
B) Kick in the door.
C) Push the table off to the side over, and jump in through the window.

The "unscripted" part means that no matter what it chooses, it's not pre-determined, written into the map that "Okay, when you enter room 32, a Combine will come from behind and kick the door in." While there will be SOME scripted things, the majority of actions like that will be implemented on-the-fly.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. For example, what I mean by scripting is, as in the original Half Life, you walk into a room and the floor falls out from under you, not actually because your character has mass, but because the floor is programmed to break at that point. This is compared to unscripted, in which you and the floor have body mass, and whenever your character steps on an area that is too weak to support you, it will fall through.

 

[Dagobert]

Gaymanoids

 

[Dagobert]

The difference you twats are all grasping for is that between special case and general case.

 

[koopa]

Originally posted by Chazz
A) Break down the door with attacks, if possible.
B) Kick in the door.
C) Push the table off to the side over, and jump in through the window.

A and B are the same thing (C is a little deeper), and there's no reason at all these couldn't be done with goal-based AI techniques. No need for scripting... that's what impressed me about the HL2 'AI' in the first place. If it's scripted, even in the way you describe we're no better than off than Call of Duty players - it's all down to the level designer, nothing emergent at all. IIRC Valve implied that this stuff was all dynamic?

 

[iamaelephant]

Whats wrong with scripting if it works really well? Call of Duty is completely scripted (obviously except for the fighting) but it works well and it's an absolutely awesome game to play. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with scripting if it all fits together nicely and does what it's supposed to do.

 

[koopa]

Originally posted by iamaelephant
Whats wrong with scripting if it works really well? Call of Duty is completely scripted (obviously except for the fighting) but it works well and it's an absolutely awesome game to play. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with scripting if it all fits together nicely and does what it's supposed to do.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with it - it's just personal preference. Personally I like emergence in my games : GTA, Deus Ex 1, etc. Call of Duty was great fun, but I don't really want to play through it again - it's like watching the same film on consecutive days.

For me, less scripting would increase the replay value of HL2. But I'm sure I'll still buy it anyway

 

[iamaelephant]

The replay value in Half Life was it's online play, and I think the same will be true for the sequel

 

[Styloid]

The purpose of AI in HL2 is not for just replay value but to give you combat sequences that can adapt to your style of play.

 

[Chazz]

Originally posted by koopa
A and B are the same thing (C is a little deeper), and there's no reason at all these couldn't be done with goal-based AI techniques. No need for scripting...

Er.... That's, what i meant... that um, it was enemy AI. The "scripting" is in the CHARACTER, not as part of the map. i.e. Those choices are done ANY time it comes up to a closed door, not that it comes to a particular door and picks up from the map to try that. So uh... A bit of both of what we're saying XD

 

[DEATH eVADER]

What i don't understand is that in the movies, the enemy and your allies still don't shoot when they're moving (Except the gunship), its like HL1 all over again with the marines

 

[PvtRyan]

Originally posted by DEATH eVADER
What i don't understand is that in the movies, the enemy and your allies still don't shoot when they're moving (Except the gunship), its like HL1 all over again with the marines

It was a technical impossibility in HL1, but now it's possible.
And I think Valve also stated that AI can move and shoot at the same time.
Don't forget the AI was toned down for the E3 movies (or just not finished yet)

 

[Narcolepsy]

Replay value suffers if everything is scripted.

 

[He@t!]

Originally posted by ZoomaCLW
Replay value suffers if everything is scripted.

Yup my thoughts exactly...But hell i'll play the multiplayer and Mods till the day i DIE!!! :cheers:


Release it already!!

 

[OCybrManO]

The best thing about being Valve is that they don't really have to worry about replay value because of the amount of mod teams that follow them to whatever game they produce essentially gives the game infinite replay value (at least until the next best engine for modding comes out).

Even though they have the padding of a huge mod community (even months before the game might be out) they still tried to come up with advanced physics, complex AI, great graphics, and an interesting and addictive multiplayer experience of their own (the singleplayer is a given).

 

[Bitchslapper]

Scripted or Not?!?! Damn get a life! it just a game for god`s sake! Let it be as good as it can be...

 

[JonTheCanuck]

I've been seeing a lot of conflicting information about whether or not the E3 Videos were actually scripted. If they were, I'd be terribly disappointed, espcially because the entire idea behind the astounding quality of the videos was that they were not scripted. Anyone have any definite information?

honestly, i think that it was, but i think it was only because it was for a demo presentation. If u were demonstrating a game at E3 would u want it to glitch? probably not. I dont really blame them for doing that. I'm sure that in the real game it wont be scripted, cause people would catch on too easy and call it.

 

[un om bun]

It would be wise not to call anything we've sen so far AI.
I mean whatta heck ? Dudes running away from grenades, the enemy sending thousands of units on your head... ridiculous. Tell me if there was a game that showed non-repetitive behaviour. Cause I haven't. And there won't be any time soon. I wish they'd just shut the hell up with this advanced AI bull !

Will there be soldiers waiting in the dark, watching your every move untill they can land right behind you ? Of course not. You've seen the vids, right ? The combines weren't showing the least of "thinking". Just standing in their places, watching eachother die. LAME !
Oh, wait ! They did shoot at supergenious Gordon with their bean-guns. :dozey:

 

[Mountain Man]

Gabe said AI can follow you anywhere

He also said the game was going to released September 30.

lying about this would be kicking yourself in the nuts

Doh!

 

[PvtRyan]

He also said the game was going to released September 30.

Doh!

No he didn't say that, he said the aimed release date was september 30th. They didn't make it, that was pretty obvious, but thanks for pointing it out to me again. But releasing games on the exact releasedate is not often achieved, does this turn all developers into liars? They weren't lying, they were just plain wrong.

 

[el Chi]

Well said PvtRyan. That they miscalculated is one thing, but calling Gabe an out-right liar (as Mountain Man was doing) is a whole other thing.

 

[Mountain Man]

Given the frequency and adamancy with which Valve promoted the September 30 release date when hindsight makes it clear they had no chance of meeting it, I find intentional deception to be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

[PvtRyan]

Given the frequency and adamancy with which Valve promoted the September 30 release date when hindsight makes it clear they had no chance of meeting it, I find intentional deception to be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

Do you actually know why it was delayed? No, until then please shut up about this subject. It's pointless.

 

[Mountain Man]

Do you actually know why it was delayed?

Yes, Valve said that it wasn't finished. Given that they needed at least another six months to complete the project, this tells me that they should have had a pretty good idea that September 30 was an unrealistic release date. Problem is, this didn't stop them from openenly promoting September 30 up to a week before then suddenly announcing a delay. Willful deception is the only explanation for this behavior, unless you want to believe that at the last minute they just suddenly realized they had six more months of work to do.

 

[JonTheCanuck]

Yes, Valve said that it wasn't finished. Given that they needed at least another six months to complete the project, this tells me that they should have had a pretty good idea that September 30 was an unrealistic release date. Problem is, this didn't stop them from openenly promoting September 30 up to a week before then suddenly announcing a delay. Willful deception is the only explanation for this behavior, unless you want to believe that at the last minute they just suddenly realized they had six more months of work to do.

Mountain man has a point, i dont think gabe is an outright liar, but i think he definately mislead all of us. I think they handled the situation very sloppy manner. But i guess we're kinda gettin off topic here.

Anybody saying its scripted or not is just speculating. Every game says they have great AI, when infact its usually not. Only way it looks any good is usually because its scripted. I dont care if minor things are, but i want it to be different enough that it has replayability. Usually the only time things r replayable tho r in multiplayer. Cause instead of AI, u have I (mostly anyways) haha

 

[Mountain Man]

Thing is, AI could reasonably be called intelligent scripting. The AI will evaluate the situation then run the script that's most appropriate.

Anyway, Valve never said there will be no scripting, just that it won't be set in stone like in the original Half-Life, where the same thing happened every time regardless of the player's actions. This time around, you'll be able to interrupt, redirect, or otherwise alter a "scripted" sequence and the AI will adapt itself based on the player's actions.

 

[Fender357]

Why don't you try e-mailing valve software employees and see if they'll tell? They've been pretty tight-lipped lately about which e-mails they answer, but it's worth a try!

I've been getting all my e-mails answered lately :cheese: