Comparing Level Design in HL1 and HL2

[nokori3byo]

I mentioned in another thread that I'd started playing through Half-Life Source after completing HL2. It's my first time playing through the game, from beginning to end, and I have to say, I'm finding it to be pretty laborious. In particular, the way the levels are laid out frequently requires the player to backtrack in order to complete certain tasks. I was suprised to find that the area encompassed by a certain chapters often isn't all that big, but the use of choke points can create situations played is slowed down by repetition. I'll admit that aceratin amount of my annoyance stems from the occasional awkwardness of HL Source's controls, but still...

The funny thing is that HL2 has frequently been criticised for being too easy or too linear. Playing through the original game can make these points seem like virtues rather than weaknesses in the newer game's design. Did anyone else find this?

Actually, this post is just a roundabout way of posing a question about the highly-anticipated Black Mesa mod: should the developers strive to duplicate HL1's level design faithfully, or should they try to balance it with a more linear approach? From what I've read, they've set out to recreate the original rather than redesign it. Thoughts?

 

[Narvi]

They are trying out new level design, while maintaining the feel of the original. Last I heard they were trying things with multiple paths through levels.

 

[Naudian]

I like the idea of backtracking & using up one area well instead of just running right through it and not absorbing it at all :\
I thought it was done well in HL, mostly. There's definitely some areas where gameplay could be improved for the Black Mesa mod though.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I don't remember there being too much backtracking in the game, but parts like the intro where you play through the same area with different conditions really help flesh out the environment.

One thing that I could see improved in HL2 is the addition of parts where you return to areas at a later time to see the change (which only really happened in the kleiner's lab parts)

 

[highlander]

hl2 had more of an open environment , while hl's level design was almost completely inside/underground , except for a few Levels , i think valve were just trying out a new type of design for the engine

 

[ScroogeMcDuck]

I like the idea of backtracking & using up one area well instead of just running right through it and not absorbing it at all :\

Seconded

 

[Asknoone]

I agree, nokori3byo. Linearity has many virtues, and I certainly think it was works perfectly within HL2. I often find HL1 gets fairly boring in spots, and there are one or two chapters that outright suck.

However, I think Blast Pit and Power up are two excellent chapters that carry out a near flawless design. Whilst they don't really force you to back track too much, you’re stuck within a limited area with the exit blocked and you need to figure out how to move it. Both of these chapters aren't perfect, but I was surprised Valve chose not to follow on with these in HL2.
Clearly, not one for completely abandoning any concept, they continued on with the theme in Episode 1 with the core, which for me was one of the best chapters in the entire series.

 

[nokori3byo]

One thing that I could see improved in HL2 is the addition of parts where you return to areas at a later time to see the change (which only really happened in the kleiner's lab parts)

Don't forget about the playground and plaza near the station, which are revisited in Anticitizen One. You even get to see that creepy little doll a second time.

That's really not what I meant by "backtracking", though. In each of the past 3 levels I've played, from "Blast Pit" to "On a Rail," I've had to retrace my steps, at some point to revisit a part of the level where I'd neglected something. Partly, this is just a symptom of poor playing on my part. Still, I was struck by how in Half Life 2, what you need to progress in a given area is always located nearby. Very seldom did I ever have to revisit a different part of the level to rectify something from before.

Anyway, I like the idea of multiple paths in Black Mesa. I get the feeling that would add some replayablity as well as a few surprises for those who remember the first game. Also, I'm curious about the extent to which Episode 2 will deliver on its promise of wide-open areas.

 

[Piers89]

However, I think Blast Pit and Power up are two excellent chapters that carry out a near flawless design. Whilst they don't really force you to back track too much, you?re stuck within a limited area with the exit blocked and you need to figure out how to move it. Both of these chapters aren't perfect, but I was surprised Valve chose not to follow on with these in HL2.

What about the train bridge section on the coast level where you have to shut down the shield?

And in reply to this topic, i haven't played hl source, just hl original, so i must ask am i correct in assuming it is a straight port?
If this is the case then i must disagree, hl is not labourious at all, the coast sections of hl2 are labourious, ie where you spend all of 4 hours of the game doing pretty much the same thing - drive past antlions, reach a house with combine, reach a tunnel with a zombies, reach a rebel outpost under attack by combine, wash, rinse and repeat.
Very little of the hl levels repeat themselves, bar on a rail which is very repetetive and dull i admitt, and surface tension, which you barely notice due to all the action occuring.

 

[nokori3byo]

What about the train bridge section on the coast level where you have to shut down the shield?

True dat. Though I did find the return trip was enlivened by the running gunship battle.

Oddly, I didn't feel that Highway 17 was repetitive at all. New Little Odessa, the crane, the bridge...I loved all that stuff. The bridge was probably my favourite bit in the game, come to think of it.

 

[topsquid]

I enjoyed the original Half Life much more than Half Life 2. And partly because of the backtracking, which taught me that took look at situation from different angles.

P.S. someone burning toast?.....Damn, now I'm starving.

 

[Asknoone]

What about the train bridge section on the coast level where you have to shut down the shield?

And in reply to this topic, i haven't played hl source, just hl original, so i must ask am i correct in assuming it is a straight port?
If this is the case then i must disagree, hl is not labourious at all, the coast sections of hl2 are labourious, ie where you spend all of 4 hours of the game doing pretty much the same thing - drive past antlions, reach a house with combine, reach a tunnel with a zombies, reach a rebel outpost under attack by combine, wash, rinse and repeat.
Very little of the hl levels repeat themselves, bar on a rail which is very repetetive and dull i admitt, and surface tension, which you barely notice due to all the action occuring.

Really? Whilst I found Highway 17 excellent, I thought that the only real reason it became laborious was due to Sandtraps. It's then you do the same thing over again, and as such the majority of Sandtraps feels fairly inconsistent with the rest of the game in that it?s repetitive.

The key difference here is that entire chapters of Half-life 1 are simply quite shit

 

[Rapstah]

The key difference here is that entire chapters of Half-life 1 are simply quite shit

Everything except for Black Mesa Inbound and Endgame sucks!

 

[Piers89]

Really? Whilst I found Highway 17 excellent, I thought that the only real reason it became laborious was due to Sandtraps. It's then you do the same thing over again, and as such the majority of Sandtraps feels fairly inconsistent with the rest of the game in that it?s repetitive.

Well, i was just referring to the whole of the buggy section, i let out a silent "thank f**k" when the combine dropship made off with the infernal thing.
Whole section just felt like valve hadnt really learnt anything from the on a rail. Yet im sure valve must have had a good reason for doing it, i guess my opinion is in the minority.

The key difference here is that entire chapters of Half-life 1 are simply quite shit.

what do you mean by entire chapters btw?

 

[Remus]

Well, i was just referring to the whole of the buggy section, i let out a silent "thank f**k" when the combine dropship made off with the infernal thing.
Whole section just felt like valve hadnt really learnt anything from the on a rail. Yet im sure valve must have had a good reason for doing it, i guess my opinion is in the minority.

I agree "Highway 17" and "Sandtraps" both suck, I would've preferred more urban mayhem fighting striders and combine then that shit.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, i was just referring to the whole of the buggy section, i let out a silent "thank f**k" when the combine dropship made off with the infernal thing.
Whole section just felt like valve hadnt really learnt anything from the on a rail. Yet im sure valve must have had a good reason for doing it, i guess my opinion is in the minority.

I really enjoyed it. Playing them together is tiring and ultimately boring but on their own they aren't that bad at all.

what do you mean by entire chapters btw?

Whole chapters. There's nothing good about Residue Processing. Xen, Gonarchs Lair, Nihilanth and Interloper are really quite shoddy (setting aside the atmosphere) and On a rail is just puh.

 

[Piers89]

True, residue processing was annoying, but then the following levels (questionable ethics, surface tension and forget about freeman) were pretty good levels because they had so much action and so many 'set-pieces,' e.g. the vorty getting blown to smithereens on the dam.
I suppose everyone has their pet hates in the game and also it cant be the same of all the best stuff because THEN it would really be repetetive.

 

[Asknoone]

Oh, I loved Surface Tension and a whole bunch of others.

 

[ríomhaire]

what do you mean by entire chapters btw?

Residue Processing

 

[pomegranate]

Samon, you always state your opinions as agreed fact. It's really annoying.

 

[ríomhaire]

True, I loved almost all of Xen.

 

[Que-Ever]

If you pussyfoot around and go "well, gee, I just thought..." Then someone's gonna come in and say NO YOU ARE WRONG AND EVERYBODY HATES YOU.

 

[ríomhaire]

If you pussyfoot around and go "well, gee, I just thought..." Then someone's gonna come in and say NO YOU ARE WRONG AND EVERYBODY HATES YOU.

But that's the beauty of the internets!

 

[Asknoone]

Samon, you always state your opinions as agreed fact. It's really annoying.

He was talking to me. I was responding via me. And I use the word I. It isn't my problem that you can't interpret them correctly. I'm not exactly posting "THE WORLD AND HIS WIFE (AND POMEGRANATE) AGREE WITH WHAT I SAY. I SPEAK THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH."

No, I don't. Jeez, I'll try and include I as much as possible next time.

 

[pomegranate]

Hey, I'm not making this up out of thin air, I'm not just talking about what you've said here - you do do it a lot.

 

[Asknoone]

It's the way I write. It isn't what I mean. You will just have to put up with it tbh.

 

[pomegranate]

Okay I guess it's your choice...

 

[Jintor]

I enjoyed Sandtraps. I guess Valve didn't have as much chance to make a linear game on what appeared to be open land, though (Regarding Highway 17).

 

[highlander]

Sandtraps, argh that was annoying.

 

[Jintor]

The bit that made up for the "Don't touch the sand, your vibrations will set off the antlions, instead let's jump on metal planks ON TOP of the sand, no way that will set off the antlions", was the Antlion Assault on Nova Prospekt near the end.

 

[nokori3byo]

The bit that made up for the "Don't touch the sand, your vibrations will set off the antlions, instead let's jump on metal planks ON TOP of the sand, no way that will set off the antlions", was the Antlion Assault on Nova Prospekt near the end.

Yep, a masterpiece in the history of gaming. I'll never forget the first time I saw antlions clear out a bunker. It was heavy.

 

[Oppressor]

People are far more critical against these two games than I expected from people with thousands of posts at this forum :dozey:

Maybe I'm just not seeing everything with critical eyes that everyone else seem to do, but the only levels I really didn't enjoy playing is the Xen-chapters from Half-Life. They simply wasn't any fun playing. I hope the Black Mesa team can make something better out of them.

I don't think that Highway 17 suck in any way, it's a lovely ride at the coastline where you get to see the state of things outside the city. And there where stops at this level where you have to do other things than just driving. Like assisting in NLO and make a climb under the large bridge. Actually you didnt drive consistent in longer periods of time. I didn't feel, and I have never felt that Highway 17 and Sandtraps where dull or repetative. But thats my opinion.

And you will probably not enjoy big parts of Episode Two where you drive the Hybrid Car if you not like driving around

 

[ríomhaire]

I enjoyed Sandtraps too. Everyone's a critic

 

[Asknoone]

I think Sandtraps works fine on its own (bar the Highway drop-offs and the tad easy dropship attack), just not when it follows on from Highway 17. At least in my opinion.
The Nova Prospekt assault is truly wonderful.

 

[Piers89]

I concur Samon, its just too heavy and too repetetive (see my earlier post).

And in reference to earlier, i was directing my posts at Samon.

 

[Oppressor]

I think Sandtraps works fine on its own (bar the Highway drop-offs and the tad easy dropship attack), just not when it follows on from Highway 17. At least in my opinion.

You mean that Sandtraps starts in the zombie infested tunnel? I think it's really wierd that the tunnel and Lighthouse Point is a part of Sandtraps. Sandtraps should've started at the load right before Lazlo and his friend. Just an input :cheese:

 

[McGooTheWise]

The only xen chapter I didn't like was the end of interpolar (After the tentacles, and gargy, that part was cool, seeing all the mini bosses again, and haveing lower chances against them) But the part after Gonarch, and after the tentacles sucked for me, just because they were so repetitive with the vorts, the grunts, and the controllers. (Btw, I hope I never have to see those flying freaks again. -.-) The jumping puzzles mixed with that made Nahilanth easier than a headcrab.

Also, highway 17 wasn't as fun as the rest of the game for me, because it was just so lonely, and so disturbingly quiet w/o the car running. However, I liked all of sandtraps, and to me the best level on the game is Nova Prospect.

I love running through an old prizon, throwing little smelly globs at soldiers, and jiant bugs running up and killing them.

 

[nokori3byo]

Also, highway 17 wasn't as fun as the rest of the game for me, because it was just so lonely, and so disturbingly quiet w/o the car running. However, I liked all of sandtraps, and to me the best level on the game is Nova Prospect.

Interesting. The quiet, desolate feeling of Highway 17 was a big part of why I liked it. I really had the feeling I was scavenging around in a dead world. A similarly eerie silience was used effectively in the opening minutes of Nova Prospekt after the music ended. Not a difficult part of the game at all, but creepily immersive nonetheless.

 

[Asknoone]

Interesting. The quiet, desolate feeling of Highway 17 was a big part of why I liked it. I really had the feeling I was scavenging around in a dead world. A similarly eerie silience was used effectively in the opening minutes of Nova Prospekt after the music ended. Not a difficult part of the game at all, but creepily immersive nonetheless.

Definately. There was simply something 'lifeless' about it. I was walking through a wasteland, long abandoned, now inhabited by a creature not of this world. Pretty creepy really.

 

[Piers89]

Definately. There was simply something 'lifeless' about it. I was walking through a wasteland, long abandoned, now inhabited by a creature not of this world. Pretty creepy really.

Sunny weather and blue skies cheered it up for me nonetheless.