Complex geometry?

[Asuka]

Almost everything i make in maps is based on very complex geometry. Thing is the only way i really know how to build complex structures walls/curves etc is using the clip tool. Thing is it causes so many problems. My objects dont align most of the time and etc etc. Now am i missing something or what?

Im uploading 4 screenshots with some test walls.




As you can see i need EXTREAMLY complex walls and curves. Any tips on how to make them perfect? I mean looking at them ingame looks almost perfect. But weird shit happens sometimes like this:




Sometimes you can see through a VERY small opening. Walls arent perfect even. etc.

Keep in mind this map is only for private use so ya..

 

[Ennui]

this is why carving is bad

 

[Asuka]

Yes i know this. If you read my post i acknowledge that. So you mind answering the question now?

 

[63]

Vertex manips.

 

[Unarmed]

AAAAArgh!

It is incredible...

Carve is bad. BAD. BAD!. Carve works alright when carving a square out of another square and even then it is not guaranteed.

What you should use is fistly the clip tool. (Splits brushes. White is kept, red is deleted, press the clip tool several times to change what is kept etc.) and the vertex manipulation tool (moves corners, edges, whatever of your brushes one by one).

Forget about carve. Clip and Vertex manip are better for you, for the machine, and give you control of whats going on. Carve is the exact opposite.

 

[Asuka]

Im sry that is using the clip tool and not carve. I didnt use carve once. Thats all with clip.

 

[Unarmed]

Then you use the clip tool badly and should learn to use it properly as well as the vertex manip tool.

Sorry, but it seems as if you have some tutorial reading to do.

Read up on:
Clip tool
Vertex manipulation tool
General otimizing.

 

[Asuka]

Then you use the clip tool badly and should learn to use it properly as well as the vertex manip tool.

Sorry, but it seems as if you have some tutorial reading to do.

Read up on:
Clip tool
Vertex manipulation tool
General otimizing.

All read none explain the building of extreme complex geometry.

 

[Finger]

www.snarkpit.net

 

[Unarmed]

Cut bushens into smaller brushes with clip tool, morph them with the vertex manip.

 

[Vegeta897]

Gah, I didn't even have to enter the thread to know that I'd see a bunch of mappers yelling their "ZOMG CARVE IS TEH DEVIL", and the guy didn't even say he used carve, nor even mentioned it at all :|

Even though it is bad, indeed, it's annoying when people feel the need to say it at least once in every thread involving this sort of stuff.

Anyway. Vertex manipulation is the way to go. It's very simple, BUT you have to watch out for invalid faces. This is why it's a good idea to create a "base" shape which will be a 3 sided figure with triangles for each side. Then just copy+paste this brush and manipulate the 4 verticies of it accordingly to suit the geometry you need. There is nothing complex about vertex manip if you are any good at all with 3d space.

Oh, and another thing, do all of your work with the nodraw texture. Once you are finished, grab the texture you want to use and apply it from "inside" the map (a player's view) so that only the things the player will see will have texture.

 

[Unarmed]

ZOMG! Teh carve is the DEVIL!

Use not lest thee shalle have the deamonse of Helle upone yee and deayh will noe doubte bee on Thy horizon....

@ Vegeta897 Now... concidering the fact that you have read all posts you sureley must have read the line in the first post saying:

"Last edited by Asuka : 25-08-2006 at 02:11 PM."

Now what if that post said carve instead of clip in the first place. Then maybe we are not manic mappers yelling at the deamons of carve..

Maybe we are just like you, trying to help our fellow mapper out. Worth a thought eh?

 

[Asuka]

Btw are the de_dust2 models missing in the sdk or is it me? Model im looking for is the brown barrel.

 

[Vegeta897]

ZOMG! Teh carve is the DEVIL!

Use not lest thee shalle have the deamonse of Helle upone yee and deayh will noe doubte bee on Thy horizon....

@ Vegeta897 Now... concidering the fact that you have read all posts you sureley must have read the line in the first post saying:

"Last edited by Asuka : 25-08-2006 at 02:11 PM."

Now what if that post said carve instead of clip in the first place. Then maybe we are not manic mappers yelling at the deamons of carve..

Maybe we are just like you, trying to help our fellow mapper out. Worth a thought eh?

Yeah, I know he edited it. But with some logic anyone could deduct that there is no way of making a mountainside like that with just carve

 

[Shinobi]

just a couple things

1) when using the clip tool for bsp blocking geometry, try to make bo clip markers be on an edge, that will help everything stay no the grid and wont give you tiny slits in your geometry

2) The stretched texture is just a uvmap at a perpedicular axis. Just select that face with the texture editro and click the "face" alignment tool

 

[Unarmed]

Yeah, I know he edited it. But with some logic anyone could deduct that there is no way of making a mountainside like that with just carve

Sure there is... You just need an unreal patience.

 

[UltraProAnti]

Yes i know this. If you read my post i acknowledge that. So you mind answering the question now?

yes - the short answer is: displacements (i didn't read all this thread so someone may have suggested this already)

the concept of using displacements on non-terrain geometry is woefully underused imho. they're great for partially ruined walls and so on, and would be ideal for what you're trying to do from the looks of those screens

only drawback is, you can't turn them into brush entities

 

[Asuka]

Btw are the de_dust2 models missing in the sdk or is it me? Model im looking for is the brown barrel.

Anyone?

 

[Shinobi]

Anyone?

the sdk is set to CS:source mode or halflife 2/hl2dm?

 

[UltraProAnti]

for problems like that i usually recommend the mark 1 eyeball

 

[Asuka]

the sdk is set to CS:source mode or halflife 2/hl2dm?

Source. How else would i get all the other maps. Every map but de_dust2 is listed...

 

[Sanada]

dust2 uses the same props as dust so they share the same ones. The brown barrel isn't in there as it's a HL2 prop. It's in props_c17 as "oildrum001.mdl".

 

[Asuka]

dust2 uses the same props as dust so they share the same ones. The brown barrel isn't in there as it's a HL2 prop. It's in props_c17 as "oildrum001.mdl".

Thx. Iv seen it in a css map thats why lol. Anyway uses HL2 props in css maps wont make anything not work i assume.

 

[Unarmed]

CSS reads the HL2 gcf. So go ahead and use them. no problems. Same with materials and sounds etc etc.

It's when you try to go cross-mod that things go wrong.

 

[Dario D.]

yes - the short answer is: displacements (i didn't read all this thread so someone may have suggested this already)

Hmm, that's a good idea. Never thought of that.

-- To answer the original post, I recommend creating curvy shapes to begin with. Instead of creating each brush as a block, you can also try creating arcs and rings, and just slicing off the ends that you don't need. Remember to be careful, and make sure each vertex ends up on the grid.