Computers and HL2

fido139

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On the subject of HL2 gaming computers, and computers in general.

I build, tune and repair computers for over 10 years now as a side line. There is a lot of misconception out there about gaming power, or just plain power in computers. Being that I have had hands on so many hundreds of computers in my line of work, I see the performance differences first hand. People seem to think the faster the processor, the bigger the video card, AMD better then intel, the more RAM, adds up to a better gaming computer. While all these things are certainly a factor, it does not mean in the end you will have what you expect in terms of power for gaming. What it all really comes down to is a compatibility issue of hardware and drivers. Some pieces of hardware just do not play nice with others, no matter what the "ratings" are. You could find a 2.0 Ghz machine that will outperform a 3 Ghz machine if you look around, and not very long. Some of the quickest computers I have every seen are nothing special in terms of hardware/size/speed and value. For instance, I had two Dell computers in the last few months on my workbench that by looking at the specs was no big deal. The last one of them being a 2.53 Ghz P4, this is the quickest machine I have seen to date, for instance it boot from "power on" to Windows XP Desktop in 18 seconds. All tests I threw at it smoked. Ghz does not necessarily translate to speed and performance, its the right "combination". Same computers with like configurations will vary in performance as well.

For instance, all I use for HL2 is a crummy old home built P4 2.4 Ghz, VIA chipset, 512 RAM, a low end GeForce4 64 Mb graphics card and a 80 Gig WD drive. Performance, in my opinion, is as good as it gets. Sure, the "stutter" is there that most everyone else has reported, but otherwise all is smooth and clean.

Another misconception is Benchmarking. Things can look pretty on cleverly displayed graphs, but they do not translate directly into blazing performance. Where the rubber really meets the road is when your hand slides the mouse or the joystick. The only way to truly evaluate a machine is run it through the paces, first hand, and believe me, they vary greatly!

One way to really hop up a machine for performance is learn to turn off all the background processes that you dont need. There are plenty of them. When I get a new machine to install from the factory, the Windows memory footprint or "charge" is as high as about 180 Mb. When I go through the machine and turn off all uneeded processes, its down to around 109 Mb, this adds a lot of speed. There are many websites dedicated to tuning Windows for performance. Out of the box, it is a slug.

Now, I know I'll get flamed for this, but I think AMD is way over rated, and I can prove that by the computers that come across my work bench. Each unit, P4 or AMD has its strengths and weaknesses, but in the end its a wash. I have become biased toward intel over the years from personal experience with the both of them. By the way, I also have Macintosh (gag) experience. :)

One more thing, Clock speed does not translate directly to performance in this way: If you go from a 1Ghz to a 2 Ghz machine, you do NOT get double the speed and performance. What you get is roughly 50% increase in actual speed, and many times not even that, as shown above.

There is a lot more that can be said about all of this, but due to space and time constraints, this is "in a nutshell".

So before you run out and buy the big stuff, test drive a few machines personally. You can spend a lot of hard earned $$$ and only buy headaches.

Fido :smoking:
 
"power on" to Windows XP Desktop in 18 seconds.

15 seconds on a 200Mhz system into Win ME is my record...damn I was proud of that. Took alot of tweaking though.

Thanks for all the advice but I'm sure that most people know from experience or from experience of others that Ghz, RAM, clock speeds aren't the only factors as far as power/speed go. And power and speed aren't the same thing. I think more people prefer AMD because they are cheaper than intel and get the same performance with less clock speed. I read an article (I think in computer shopper) this week about processors and that AMD's 2000+ (clock of 1.66Ghz) has about the same wellie as a Intel 2Ghz. The difference being the price. Same performance for less.

One thing I've noticed alot of people do is that they have a pretty average system, nothing particularly special, but want to play a game like hl2 to the max so they get a top of the range ATI x800. They then realise that their mate who also has a ATI x800 has a much higher FPS @ higher settings. This is because it's not a component that makes the system powerful. It's all of it together, if the processor and/or memory aren't telling the gfx card what to do quick enough, the gfx card won't use its full potential.

Heck, I don't even know why I'm saying this. Just fancied a good ol' type.
 
I didnt know self proclaimed Psychologists/Psychiatrists played HalfLife. Funny.
 
Benchmarking is extremely important and is very representative of what in game performance will actually be. Benchmarks are not subjective, they give a concrete number. You observations are subjective.

That fact is: The best AMD system will always beat the best Intel system in terms of gaming. That’s just a fact, I can give you about a dozen sources to back that up. However, personally I own an Intel based system because Intel beats AMD in the majority of synthetic and real benchmarks. It all matters on what your needs are, I do a lot more than gaming so I choose Intel.

Yes you should do your best to ensure compatibility of components and software but that is rarely in the hands of the end user. I have done everything possible to create a stable platform with my computer. For the most part it runs perfect. Yet as an end user, I still have no control over ATi’s drivers or Valve's source engine, or how that software will interact with my hardware.

I’m sorry man, my 3.2Ghz P4 can take on your 2.5Ghz P4 any day and school it in every possible way. I don’t care what you do, higher specs always equal higher performance in the real world. I’m not talking about flakes that have 45 processes running in the background, never defrag their hard drive or update drivers. That’s just common PC maintenance. You think your only one that does that?

Man, I don’t want to think how bad HL2 runs with a Geforce4. Remember, you might have a nice framerate, but there is also little thing called image quality. That videocard is a major bottleneck on your system. Put a 9800 Pro in there instead and you'll see at least a 200% performance gain.
 
ok, so what parts should i get for the ultimate pc, what parts will go together best. do you mean amd for nvidia and intel for ati or what?
 
mad max 6 said:
ok, so what parts should i get for the ultimate pc, what parts will go together best. do you mean amd for nvidia and intel for ati or what?

lol, u asking me? Id go for a Intel P4EE @ 5Ghz w/ liquid nitrogen cooling, 2GB of DDR2 RAM, Dual SLI Nvidia 6800 Ultras w/ vapochill cooling, 2 80GB 15,000RPM SCSI Hardrives w/ Raid0 (5 sec bootup lol). Id say that pull a good 12,500 in 3DMark05. Now all I need is 6 grand. Can u hook me up?
 
Again, there are no guarantees that things, recommended, tested, reviewed, or not, will play nice with each other. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to try them. You may end up returning them. Every system is as unique as a person is, there are no two exactly alike in performance or personality.

Sam316: Of course you are somewhat correct in what you say, there really is no reason for arguement. On the AMD/intel thing I am speaking from years of experience. How many years has Macintosh claimed they are "faster"? Sure, in about 2 operations, and thats it, otherwise they are dogs. I have a lot of computer experience, and yes, generally speaking you are correct, but not always and not 100%. Now one other thing, as an end user your intel 3.2 Ghz will yeild higher and prettier "benchmarks", but in actual use you will detect no difference in performing day to day tasks between my 2.4 and your 3.2. In a high demand game like HL2, you may, but most people just want to play the dang game decently without crashing or jerking, and really dont care about "image quality", frame rates, etc.

One other thing I did not mention before, and that is keep your processor, memory, video card COOL, use extra fans if you need to, even if its just for the game, open the case and let more air in...this will increase performance a lot, and in many cases prevent crashing.

Fido
 
I experience many overheat crashes, and can say that opening up my case and sticking a household fan in tehre really helps. Even so, HL2 still overheats it.... time to upgrade the heatsink :)
 
fido139 said:
Again, there are no guarantees that things, recommended, tested, reviewed, or not, will play nice with each other. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to try them. You may end up returning them. Every system is as unique as a person is, there are no two exactly alike in performance or personality.

Sam316: Of course you are somewhat correct in what you say, there really is no reason for arguement. On the AMD/intel thing I am speaking from years of experience. How many years has Macintosh claimed they are "faster"? Sure, in about 2 operations, and thats it, otherwise they are dogs. I have a lot of computer experience, and yes, generally speaking you are correct, but not always and not 100%. Now one other thing, as an end user your intel 3.2 Ghz will yeild higher and prettier "benchmarks", but in actual use you will detect no difference in performing day to day tasks between my 2.4 and your 3.2. In a high demand game like HL2, you may, but most people just want to play the dang game decently without crashing or jerking, and really dont care about "image quality", frame rates, etc.

One other thing I did not mention before, and that is keep your processor, memory, video card COOL, use extra fans if you need to, even if its just for the game, open the case and let more air in...this will increase performance a lot, and in many cases prevent crashing.

Fido

Cooling matters? Wow I didnt know that...

We're basically in an argument about common sense computer stuff; it’s just a waste of time. I’m done.
 
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