concealed weapons permit - discussion

[Kase]

I'd like to see how your fist measures up against a bullet coming from 100 feet away and traveling at ~7,000 feet per second.

Thats the point thow if people didnt feel the need to carry guns it would just be settled with fists

 

[SIGbastard]

one has to question why exactly you feel you need that level of protection ..you've had a recent "encounter" which explains the pepper spray, you carry a gun so I'm assuming that was in reaction to another "encounter" ..all in all wouldnt it most prudent to move to an area that isnt likely to produce enounter after encounter after encounter? you're in dental school, you can afford not to live in the projects/means streets of baghdad ..but that doesnt explain the other military firearms you have. I mean you couldnt possibly justify an AR-15 for home defense (outside of bagdhad) so it begs the question as to how much of it is hobby and how much of it is legitimate/paranoid delusional desire for self defense. All in all I dont see what gives you and people like you (and by extension criminals) the right to pose a threat to ordinary people simply out of a desire to protect yourself and because it entertains you (hobby)..seems completely selfish imho

I'm not going to go into details but I had two rednecks that were about to break through my driverside window to try and kick my ass. Luckily I was not blocked in place and I just drove away. If they had broken my window I would have felt like I was about to be seriously harmed and likely would have shot them. For all I know they were unarmed so I can't tell you how that would have played out as far as me being charged. I just prefer to have a second option.

I live in the country but I frequently commute to the city. There are good parts of town and bad. Just because you live on the good side doesn't mean you can avoid going to the bad side for many many reasons. Furthermore crime happens every day regardless of where you are.

Oh and I keep an ar15 ready to go at home (it is not accessible to children) . It is more effective than a pistol for home defense. The goal of such an encounter is to put someone down. I want to put them down fast. I am not worried about being over gunned when defending my family. In my state there is a "make my day" law that gives me the right to shoot intruders armed or not.

It is not about paranoid delusions like you imply it's just about being ready to defend oneself if needed. I feel it is my responsibility as a parent and husband to be able to protect my family to the fullest extent. I hope I never have to shoot anyone. You really like to insult people you disagree with and imply things that simply aren't true. You have proven this over and over and over.

Here's my AR15 I keep ready at night. It is 6ft off the ground. I always put my keys on the hook so I can't leave without putting it back in the safe, but this is simply for a pic so the keys weren't there.

 

[Druckles]

I have not got a gun. I have not been shot.

By your theory, if it were legal for me to own a gun, I would be able to defend myself.

Sure, I could shoot the guy who was shooting me.

That makes two dead people.

As far as my COMP10020 course seems to think and my other modules agree, 2>0.

 

[Omnomnick]

MESSAGE TO ALL PATRIOTIC AMERICANS!!

'God gave us the right to bare arms...'

What the ****, how could God have given you the rights if they were invented by a human. Do you not realise guns is pointless, because if you have a gun for self-defence the guy attacking you or robbing your house will almost likely have one too, meaning one of you is propablly going to die or be seriously injured. It also makes assassinations easier. You mourn your presidents such as Abraham Lincoln when he was shot a few hundred years ago. And yet you don't see how he was actually killed, he was shot. Which means he probablly bought the gun from somewhere and was able to shoot him which is obviously easier than stabbing etc.

Basically, guns are a bad idea, all they do is create more crime.

 

[CptStern]

all those who felt threatened to a point that they needed an AR15 at the ready at all times raise your hand


look you're not helping the notion that you're not paranoid delusional with your posts/photos of killsticks ..you have several firearms and assault weapons, they cant all be for home defence ..so some of it is for pleasure/hobby right?...anyways besides stating that you live in the country and have been "accosted" by rednecks (who hasnt?) you havent really explained what lead you to this constant state of armed to the teeth readiness ..surely a few rednecks havent scared you silly ..oh and you still havent answered the main points of my post ..why should you own something that could potentially take my or anyone elses rights/life away? your very existence (gun advocacy) perpetuates violence wether directly or indirectly. your rights indirectly and directly infringe my rights: the right to life ..why do you believe that your rights supercede mine?

 

[Druckles]

'God gave us the right to bare arms...'

 

[Tyguy]

 

[Omnomnick]

I lol'd

 

[nurizeko]

Sig, I'de be more inclined to not be so critical of your gun fetish if it wasn't for the fact that you have freely admitted elsewhere to enjoying what is basically dark age idea of dental surgery, of torture, of mutilating another human being.



Meh, I aint some anti gun screeching tosser, theres good arguments for and against, and its irresponsible/criminals who commit crime, not people, but frankly, I am happy I live in a country where carrying/owning a gun without being in her majesty's service or heavily licensed, makes you a criminal and a danger to society and liable to be arrested and thrown away for a lnog time.

Call it irrational but I feel as safe under that system then you do with your make my family die in my heroic last stand firefight law.

 

[VirusType2]

MESSAGE TO ALL PATRIOTIC AMERICANS!!

'God gave us the right to bare arms...'

What the ****, how could God have given you the rights if they were invented by a human.

sorry, that's not even close.

read:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Do you not realise guns is pointless, because if you have a gun for self-defence the guy attacking you or robbing your house will almost likely have one too, meaning one of you is propablly going to die or be seriously injured.

Just because I want to break in and steal your xbox doesn't mean I want to kill anyone, or even hurt anyone, hell I don't even want anyone to be there. I thought nobody was home.

It also makes assassinations easier. You mourn your presidents such as Abraham Lincoln when he was shot a few hundred years ago. And yet you don't see how he was actually killed, he was shot. Which means he probablly bought the gun from somewhere and was able to shoot him which is obviously easier than stabbing etc.

It has become necessary that the president has much higher security over the years. And this is a world stage now.

Whether citizens have guns or not, remember, the bad guys that want to kill the president are going to get guns, whether they are legal or not.

Basically, guns are a bad idea, all they do is create more crime.

Ok there are hundreds of millions of guns owned by citizens in America.

if they were banned, most people would give them up...

So guns are illegal...

This makes guns multitudes more effective for criminals since they would be the only ones with them.

They would only become more valuable on the black market, making it tempting for 'honest' people to sell them on the streets, further empowering the ones we don't want to have them.


Even in a fantasy world were all the current guns in America just disappeared, a gun is a relatively crude device. It would be entirely feasible that people with some know-how and some machinery could manufacture hand cannons and bullets underground, in fact I'm sure that is already the case.

nonsense

Druckels lol, I think you should get some sleep.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Toaster's post gets ignored.

SIGbastard, I see you double-posted again in this thread, and as per my warning I have proceeded to merge a great number of your posts. They are readable here.

 

[MJ12]

whats wrong with good old fashioned Fist's the world is to full of pussys that feel the need to carry Guns/Knifes

I seriously think all women should carry some sort of knife with them, along with pepper spray as a first defense... knife hopefully being last.

 

[CptStern]

Your main argument appears to be that if it were more common for people to carry guns, homicides wouldn't happen simply because people could act out of self-defence. However, studies have repeatedly shown that high gun ownership levels in fact increase homicide rates. (Source.)



Yes. Let's.
According to the WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, there were 18,124 deaths by homicide in the US in 2005. Even so, over half of deaths by firearms are in fact suicides, not homicides. (Source.)
The WISQARS Injury and Mortality Reports lists 32,637 deaths by suicide in the US in 2005.

It has been proven that states with stricter gun control and thereby where guns are less prevalent have significantly lower suicide rates. (Source.)
I'd like to point out this quote from the previous source: "There were no parallel increases in suicide from non-firearm methods." This implies that those individuals who potentially would have committed suicide with the use of a firearm did not seek other methods that would potentially take more effort and planning, as opposed to a snap decision with a firearm.

Logically, if more people die from suicide, firearms are used more commonly in suicide, and stricter gun control decreases suicide rates, the issue that should be discussed in correlation to gun control should verily be suicide.
It's not difficult to figure out why this isn't the case. Homicides (notably school shootings) have a dramatic nature about them, and the media is not shy about exploiting this. In addition, suicide carries certain stigmas and generally doesn't command one's attention like a homicide would.

Ladies and gentlemen, I do not think that we need more guns. Thank you and good night.

I'll be honest; I didnt even see your post ...good points all around


as an aside ..coincidentily my brother in law at a scene of a suicide this afternoon ..guy used a shotgun (legal for hunting) to splatter his brains all over his back yard ..unfortunately a lot of brain matter ended up all over the neighbours fence, porch, walls, windows ..clean up of brain matter/remains of head will easily cost $10,000-$20,000

 

[VirusType2]

I saw it, I'm just tired.

Except under extreme circumstances, currently, it's my belief that anyone who would kill them self is mentally unstable If that's the correct way of putting it. 'Crazy.'

Mentally unstable people should never own a gun. In fact, I believe there are laws that prevent it, but our government doesn't do mandatory brain scans and psychological evaluations yet. Though I wouldn't put it past them in the not so distant future.


Finally, this thread is about a small group people with a clean criminal and mental record getting a special permit due to circumstances, it's not about everyone having a gun.


It doesn't necessarily translate to ' a gun in the classroom ' instead of an apple.


Don't forget about planes and hijackers....

 

[unozero]

I think Store Owners should Cwp's and normal Civilians should have an extensive background check.

 

[Rizzo]

Ladies and gentlemen, I do not think that we need more guns. Thank you and good night.

I applaud you.

Edit: I ****ed up.

But still, suicides can just as well come from a snap decision of jumping, cuting and hanging.
So saying that people with guns are more likely to kill them self is pretty farfetched. If anything, it just gives people who want to commit suicide means to do so. Which, they could come by with other means.

 

[unozero]

everyone is entitled to their opinion but you will never take away guns from law abiding citizens.

 

[SIGbastard]

all those who felt threatened to a point that they needed an AR15 at the ready at all times raise your hand


look you're not helping the notion that you're not paranoid delusional with your posts/photos of killsticks ..you have several firearms and assault weapons, they cant all be for home defence ..so some of it is for pleasure/hobby right?...anyways besides stating that you live in the country and have been "accosted" by rednecks (who hasnt?) you havent really explained what lead you to this constant state of armed to the teeth readiness ..surely a few rednecks havent scared you silly ..oh and you still havent answered the main points of my post ..why should you own something that could potentially take my or anyone elses rights/life away? your very existence (gun advocacy) perpetuates violence wether directly or indirectly. your rights indirectly and directly infringe my rights: the right to life ..why do you believe that your rights supercede mine?

Do I need to spell it out for you?? I have guns for self defense. I also enjoy shooting as a hobby. Therefore I have more than I need for self defense, but every one of them could legitimately be used for self defense. I in no way claim anywhere that I need a dozen guns to defend my family. Also where I live it could take a while for law enforcement to get to my house.

As far as the rednecks that is not why I carry. It was an example of why I started carrying pepper spray to have a second option. I've been "accosted" by rednecks before. These guys were seriously crazy and in a completely different league. If you were there you would understand. Sorry i don't feel it necessary to go into great detail. I was not scared really during the event because I was in no way blocked in. I did have to drive through a red light at an overpass but it was not a big deal. If there was somebody in front of me though it could have been different. Please don't act like they were just messing with me because you were not there. I am not going to go into the whole story of how/why it happened because it is not important.

I post pics of my guns because I am passionate about my hobby. I enjoy shooting. I enjoy reloading. I am a member at two very nice private member only gun clubs. Somehow I don't think I am a danger to anyone. Using guns in self defense does not perpetuate violence. I am not looking for a fight from anyone. I simply refuse to be a victim if I can prevent it. I do not live my life like there is danger around every corner. I just like to have options.


I'm pretty sure armed robberies/muggings etc have gone up in the UK/England/Australia etc since all the gun bans. I don't have sources at my tips at the moment but I know for a fact I could get them.

 

[Absinthe]

everyone is entitled to their opinion but you will never take away guns from law abiding citizens.

Well, that settles it.

Everybody, move along. Uno's won the argument.

 

[SIGbastard]

@SIGbastard

since you're an expert in guns...could you tell me what is the best in other words the most versatile handgun currently made?

I'm not an expert.

I like 1911's alot. They are the most forgiving design though when mass produced. They are almost a 100 year old design. Paying people to do metal work then was cheap. it was normal for a mass produced gun then to have some fitting done. Now parts are made that just drop in. If you want a good reliable gun out of the box I say get a Sig, HK, Glock, or many others.

As far as 1911's I would not trust a current mass produced one unless you have put a few hundred rounds through it without failure. With the trend in making the tolerances so tight it has to be done right or there will be problems. I am not saying they are bad but there is more of a chance there will be issues than with other guns. You may get a cheap 1911 that runs great.

Mine are semi-custom builds. They cost over $2k each but I love them and would never part with them. They are completely fitted by hand with only high quality steel parts. I think the trigger on one is 3.25lbs and the other is 3.75lbs and about as crisp as you can get. They also both are stone cold reliable.

 

[VirusType2]

How is "mentally unstable" defined in terms of prevention of owning a firearm? You pointed out that a psychological evaluation isn't mandatory.

you can be clinically diagnosed or if you were ever deemed to be in a court of law.

While preventing people who have a history of depression or general instability from owning guns is certainly important, it doesn't cover half of the issue.

Like I said, I believe that anyone who would kill themselves has something wrong with them mentally. Think about it. Do you know any normal people that would ever kill them self?

The only other case I could think of are misfortunes of the worst kind, like having your entire family killed in front of you, might make up some cases of suicidal people

Furthermore, you'll find that those with a clean criminal and mental record is far from a small group of people.

I believe that's true, but you would be surprised. I've read in the paper that 25% of Americans are IN JAIL.

As far as I can tell, the argument in the original article you posted was that if one person in any of those situations had been carrying a gun, then the situation could have been diffused with fewer victims. However, does this not call for a greater prevalence of firearms, which has been proven to increase both homicide and suicide rates in the sources I've posted previously?

Statistics:
"Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,346,000 permits in twenty years, has revoked only 165 for a "crime after licensure involving a firearm," and fewer than 4200 permits for any reason. [46]"




Let me make an example; a robbery of a convince store, say 7-11:

An off duty homeland security officer (like my brother) with a concealed weapons permit happened to be at a store while it was being robbed ... the robber would have no idea that he was carrying a weapon, and wouldn't see him as a threat, making the perpetrator incredibly vulnerable.



It's important to note that there are varying degrees of weapons carry permits and restrictions that go along with them. The details can be found here.

Surprising numbers of people have weapons carry permits, yet I've never heard of an incident where anyone with a permit has done anything wrong.

Michigan, for example, reported more than 40,000 applications in a one year period.[43] Florida has issued over 1.2 million permits since adopting the law, and has had more than 400,000 currently-licensed permit holders as of June 2007.[44]

 

[unozero]

Well, that settles it.

Everybody, move along. Uno's won the argument.

6char

 

[Rizzo]

Whats the difference between a handgun and firearm? Like a rifle?

My point was, that those people, could just as well taken their life without the use of guns. And if you are set to kill yourself, the loss of a firearmhandgun isn't going to stop you.

Snap decision and you take a bunch of pills mixed with vodka, or jump out the window, cut your wrists...
Im not really sure how the gun control works in Japan, but im pretty sure they have one of the highest suicide rates.

 

[SIGbastard]

I'm really just going to refrain from this thread now. It's a shame that people always make assumptions about others though because they are different from them. I think it's funny how people with liberal beliefs claim to embrace diversity but then insult and make assumptions about people that are different from themselves.

I can see where someone would think I am a nut if they have no experience around firearms. If I was not into shooting for a hobby I would probably have a pistol and then a rifle or shotgun. There is nothing illegal about it though, and where I am from it is not that rare of a thing. People just see the toothless rednecks with confederate flags touted in the media as a gun nut and think that must be what we are all like. That is fiction though and you'd be ignorant to buy into that line of thinking. If you frequent the midwest there is a good chance the doctor you see, lawyer you talk to, real estate agent, etc etc carry a gun. You'd never know it. It doesn't create any problems as much as people would like to believe, and there is a legitimate use. We don't live in Utopia.

 

[VirusType2]

My point was, that those people, could just as well taken their life without the use of guns. And if you are set to kill yourself, the loss of a firearmhandgun isn't going to stop you.

Snap decision and you take a bunch of pills mixed with vodka, or jump out the window, cut your wrists...
Im not really sure how the gun control works in Japan, but im pretty sure they have one of the highest suicide rates.

not really, a gun can be instant and dramatic method of suicide.

go out with a bang mother****er.


not sure about japan, but it takes guts to stick a sword through yourself IMO. more pain. Gun to the head is point and click.

In Japan it's honorable and respectable to kill yourself if your situation is dire?

 

[ríomhaire]

I seriously think all women should carry some sort of knife with them, along with pepper spray as a first defense... knife hopefully being last.

A weapon you don't know how to use belongs to your enemy.

 

[Rizzo]

All japanese suicides are done by harakiri.

I whould however like to go out with a splat, or a big bang. Like explosive bang.

I don't really like the whole let everyone(some) carry guns, becouse I whould be pretty uneasy with it.
Someone can shoot me, or anyone after a heated argument. Im not saying they will, but there are many manslaughters by guns.

Your 2nd amendment is a relic, and don't really serve any purpuse exept let you have guns. ****, do you really think you can overthrow an out of line goverment? Then why havent you already?

But anywayI don't really know all you yanks statistics and shit, so I don't want to get in any deep discussion here.

 

[Rizzo]

And I just thought that those people whould off themself in a different manner... But I see your point.

 

[Rizzo]

And that's why i agree with you? I guess I should have made it more clear.

 

[VirusType2]

maybe you should only be able to own a firearm if you have earned a license to carry one, because it seems that simple training and licensing brings out the best in people.

Citizens On Patrol C.O.P.s

 

[Jintor]

My sources state that people who are unarmed only do normal damage, not piercing, have smaller range, and in general do less damage than people with firearms, except for critical hits.

I'm really just going to refrain from this thread now. It's a shame that people always make assumptions about others though because they are different from them. I think it's funny how people with liberal beliefs claim to embrace diversity but then insult and make assumptions about people that are different from themselves.

Here's my 'liberal assumption' - everybody is an idiot until proven otherwise.

 

[Krynn72]

And heres everybody's assumption whether liberal or conservative: 'Everybody is an idiot except for me.'

 

[Druckles]

It's funny how true Grizzly is.

So true, oh so true.