Conservative pundits wrong then and wrong now

[No Limit]

This is a great article posted on media matters that clearly describes how ****ing insane american media is.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607270007

Summary: Numerous conservative pundits offered highly optimistic predictions about the U.S. invasion of Iraq regarding the conflict's duration, difficulty, and human and financial costs -- nearly all of which have proven to be wrong. But rather than hold these "Pollyanna pundits" accountable for their past misjudgments, the media have again provided a platform for their views about the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. And echoing their rhetoric on Iraq, these conservative pundits have advocated further military action by the United States and its allies.

Their statements before Iraq:

"The political, strategic and moral rewards would also be even greater. A friendly, free, and oil-producing Iraq would leave Iran isolated and Syria cowed; the Palestinians more willing to negotiate seriously with Israel; and Saudi Arabia with less leverage over policymakers here and in Europe. Removing Saddam Hussein and his henchmen from power presents a genuine opportunity -- one President Bush sees clearly -- to transform the political landscape of the Middle East." [Testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 2/2/02]

Their statements now:

"The deaths are worth it if it leads to Hezbollah being expelled from Lebanon, disarmed, the Lebanese government able to observe sovereignty, and then we will have a peaceful and democratic Lebanon that is perfectly happy to live in peace with Israel and its other neighbors. That's why this is a great opportunity. It's unfortunate that Lebanese get killed in the cross fire, but at the end of the day, this is really much better for Lebanon than them being forced to tolerate Hezbollah, as they were forced to tolerate Syria for all those years, occupying their territory." [Fox News' Big Story with John Gibson, 7/18/06]

Read the entire mediamatters post and let me know if you guys see the similarities. And I promise you, history will once again prove them wrong yet our media will allow these same people to spew more bullshit about whatever conflict we are involved in 10 years from now.

 

[Nemesis6]

Dude, you can't say that Conservative pundits/blogs/whatever are wrong just because you're not on the same spectrum of politics as they are.

 

[$kelet0r]

[Deleted]

 

[Raziaar]

If you're hoping to change peoples minds, you've taken a very bad approach to doing so.

Generally this style will only get your point across to people who share your same point of view... so ultimately it accomplishes nothing but a circle jerk.

 

[Slacker]

If you're hoping to change peoples minds, you've taken a very bad approach to doing so.

Generally this style will only get your point across to people who share your same point of view... so ultimately it accomplishes nothing but a circle jerk.

...Or big piles of shit-heaping arguments that get nowhere.

 

[No Limit]

If you're hoping to change peoples minds, you've taken a very bad approach to doing so.

Generally this style will only get your point across to people who share your same point of view... so ultimately it accomplishes nothing but a circle jerk.

How so? I made a point and I backed it up, I completely fail to see anything extremist in this post. Do you think people that were so wrong back then have earned the right be be spewing more of this bullshit now?

 

[Slacker]

How so? I made a point and I backed it up, I completely fail to see anything extremist in this post. Do you think people that were so wrong back then have earned the right be be spewing more of this bullshit now?

You're extremist in the point that every post you seem to make dehuamnizes Republicans to an outrageous extent. Heck, you even compared mentally insane people to them. Kinda breaks your track record of sensible credibility, ya know.

 

[No Limit]

You're extremist in the point that every post you seem to make dehuamnizes Republicans to an outrageous extent. Heck, you even compared mentally insane people to them. Kinda breaks your track record of sensible credibility, ya know.

We're back to this bullshit already and I've only been here a week. Nice. :dozey:

 

[Tr0n]

Meh.

 

[Sainku]

Your topics just bring out the best in everyone.

 

[Glirk Dient]

We're back to this bullshit already and I've only been here a week. Nice. :dozey:

Well apparently it still applies. This thread does nothing to make us think otherwise. You still take jabs at republicans/conservatives for any minor event and attempt to blow it up making people with different views than you the reincarnation of hitler.

 

[Tr0n]

Your topics just bring out the best in everyone.

I like your avatar.

 

[No Limit]

You guys realize not a singe one of you has actually addressed the post?

Or am correct in assuming that all of you who chose to attack me instead of replying to the post support the fact that our media allows these people to continue to sway public opinion and the fact they were wrong and outright lied in many cases doesn't concern you at all?

You're all right, this is just a bunch of liberal bullshit. Use your heads, please.

 

[15357]

Thats what the media does. The media is free. Freedom of the press, as you people call it.

 

[Slacker]

You guys realize not a singe one of you has actually addressed the post?

Or am correct in assuming that all of you who chose to attack me instead of replying to the post support the fact that our media allows these people to continue to sway public opinion and the fact they were wrong and outright lied in many cases doesn't concern you at all?

You're all right, this is just a bunch of liberal bullshit. Use your heads, please.

A big back to you as well, my friend. First of all, I doubt conservative pundits are really "changing us for the worst!" considering that Bush's approval rating is down in the shitter. Those of us who agree with what you say don't need anymore proof, and those who don't agree are going to just get needlessly angry.

 

[No Limit]

and those who don't agree are going to just get needlessly angry.

Why? Please, explain that to me. If you don't agree with a given point it is somehow bad to give your opinion on why you don't agree? Is discussion of these matters, matters that affect millions each day, not important enough to look at seriously? I could careless who here attacks me, but when you do it because you are too angry to try and dispute what I am saying that tells me a lot about your willingness to actually care about what is going on around you.

And you honestly don't think those pundits had anything to do with us being in Iraq in the first place? You don't think a guy lying his ass off on national tv without being challanged with actual facts infront of millions of people has absolutely no effect on what those millions of people think? Sir, you have way more faith in the average american than I do.

 

[esplin]

Those who watch Shawn Hanity(sp?) and his ilk deserve what they get.

 

[No Limit]

Those who watch Shawn Hanity(sp?) and his ilk deserve what they get.

That's the point, this has nothing to do with those extreme shows. These people continually get put on the air on regular NEWS shows like Today Show, Good Morning America, etc. Shows that millions watch daily.

 

[Glirk Dient]

You guys realize not a singe one of you has actually addressed the post?

Or am correct in assuming that all of you who chose to attack me instead of replying to the post support the fact that our media allows these people to continue to sway public opinion and the fact they were wrong and outright lied in many cases doesn't concern you at all?

You're all right, this is just a bunch of liberal bullshit. Use your heads, please.

Nobody has answered the OP because its completely ridiculous and ignorant. You act as if republicans are the worst scum on earth and democrats are heaven sent. Both sides are lying scumbags and wrong on many different occasions. Don't act like this is one sided. Its almost as ignorant as saying the media is conservative or liberal biased. There are plenty of new sources that are biased to both sides.

 

[Slacker]

Nobody has answered the OP because its completely ridiculous and ignorant. You act as if republicans are the worst scum on earth and democrats are heaven sent. Both sides are lying scumbags and wrong on many different occasions. Don't act like this is one sided. Its almost as ignorant as saying the media is conservative or liberal biased. There are plenty of new sources that are biased to both sides.

QFT.

Thank you, good sir.

 

[No Limit]

Nobody has answered the OP because its completely ridiculous and ignorant. You act as if republicans are the worst scum on earth and democrats are heaven sent. Both sides are lying scumbags and wrong on many different occasions. Don't act like this is one sided. Its almost as ignorant as saying the media is conservative or liberal biased. There are plenty of new sources that are biased to both sides.

Give me some examples of democrats doing the same. I'll give you some time.

Backing up your post with facts is a bitch isn't it.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I didn't feel the need for facts as your post was logically invalid. Anyways here is a google search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q="democrat+lying"&btnG=Search

Honestly, for you to say no democrat has ever lied is pretty funny. For you to think Democrats and Republicans not only share different views but are always morally different people is pretty ignorant. Belonging to one party does not make you of higher moral standing.

P.S. Remember Clinton?

 

[Slacker]

Give me some examples of democrats doing the same. I'll give you some time.

Backing up your post with facts is a bitch isn't it.

Ever watched the News?

I rest my case.

 

[No Limit]

I didn't feel the need for facts as your post was logically invalid. Anyways here is a google search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q="democrat+lying"&btnG=Search

Honestly, for you to say no democrat has ever lied is pretty funny. For you to think Democrats and Republicans not only share different views but are always morally different people is pretty ignorant. Belonging to one party does not make you of higher moral standing.

P.S. Remember Clinton?

I never said democrats don't lie. I posted examples in the original post, you replied and said that democrats lie just as much as republicans. I call bullshit and I am still waiting for real examples of democrats lying, and being unchallanged, in main stream media.

Its odd the google search you pointed to shows an example of a lying republican in the first result. I could not find any example of a democrat lying in the meda, and I went through 4 pages.

And yes, I remember Clinton. You are right, lying about a personal relationship with a woman is the same as lying to get thousands of people killed.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I would search more but honestly your point is so worthless that no one really cares. To point out that politicians lie is nothing new. To point out that one side lies more than the other is silly and really your stereotyping. Do you realize that?

What is it you want to get out of this thread? For people to realize that politicians were wrong. Honestly what I read it sounded like the politicians didn't lie so much as were simply wrong/incorrect. They didn't know what they were saying was wrong and went ahead and told everyone that was the answer.

Your blitzkrieg to prove to the world republicans are scum is less enlightening and more so an annoyance. Get a life and debate real issues.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

No, I pretty much agree with what he's saying. If you have a problem with what he's saying you are probably one of them.

 

[Stigmata]

I would search more but honestly your point is so worthless that no one really cares. To point out that politicians lie is nothing new. To point out that one side lies more than the other is silly and really your stereotyping. Do you realize that?

What is it you want to get out of this thread? For people to realize that politicians were wrong. Honestly what I read it sounded like the politicians didn't lie so much as were simply wrong/incorrect. They didn't know what they were saying was wrong and went ahead and told everyone that was the answer.

Your blitzkrieg to prove to the world republicans are scum is less enlightening and more so an annoyance. Get a life and debate real issues.

I find it a little frightening that you think the perpetration of lies by the mainstream media and high-ranking politicians is a non-issue.

The problem here is that the media and the government are controlled by publicly right-wing people, who have clearly lied to the american public a very high number of times, some of which are different lies about the same event.

And I'd really hold off on personal attacks when you're talking about politics, and at least make more than one or two efforts to back up your claims. I really don't want to have to point you in the direction of the logical fallacy thread.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I find it a little frightening that you think the perpetration of lies by the mainstream media and high-ranking politicians is a non-issue.

The problem here is that the media and the government are controlled by publicly right-wing people, who have clearly lied to the american public a very high number of times, some of which are different lies about the same event.

And I'd really hold off on personal attacks when you're talking about politics, and at least make more than one or two efforts to back up your claims. I really don't want to have to point you in the direction of the logical fallacy thread.

I find it interesting you jump to the word lies...or this thread in general. Most "lies" fall more into the category of misinformed/just plain wrong. In my book a lie is when someone knows the correct answer yet still gives the false answer.
Lies are definately an issue and should ruin a politicians career. There aren't an awful lot of cases where it was a clear cut case, one of the largest incidents being Clinton. I believe a larger issue is misinformation and bias. So why don't we figure out a way to magically fix that as well as lying. This issue is along the lines of trying to figure out how to make rain clouds stop from raining because we don't like to get wet. Its bound to happen so bring your rain gear and keep clear of the storm clouds.

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

2 Audio pronunciation of "lie" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.

1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.


Notice, you don't neccesarilly have to know the correct answer to decieve someone. For example, if I didnt know the correct answer about wheter saddam had weapons of mass destruction, be going on the media and saying that he did counts as lying.

Misinformation is almost a synonym of lying, hence, when No Limit brings up this issue (as you deem misinformation an issue) you should be agreeing with him and stating that republicans also misinform the public.

I see no reason for you to personally attack him.

On another note, I watched quite a convincing documentary that explained that Bill Clinton actually did not have an affair with monica lewinsky.

 

[No Limit]

I would search more but honestly your point is so worthless that no one really cares. To point out that politicians lie is nothing new. To point out that one side lies more than the other is silly and really your stereotyping. Do you realize that?

What is it you want to get out of this thread? For people to realize that politicians were wrong. Honestly what I read it sounded like the politicians didn't lie so much as were simply wrong/incorrect. They didn't know what they were saying was wrong and went ahead and told everyone that was the answer.

Your blitzkrieg to prove to the world republicans are scum is less enlightening and more so an annoyance. Get a life and debate real issues.

Politicians and commentators in the media are totally seperate. Yes, politicians lie, sure. But when people in the media lie those lies influance millions of people. And it has nothing to do with misinformation on their part, they are outright lies as my original article proves (you wouldn't know that as I don't think you even read the original post).

 

[Glirk Dient]

2 Audio pronunciation of "lie" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.

1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.


Notice, you don't neccesarilly have to know the correct answer to decieve someone. For example, if I didnt know the correct answer about wheter saddam had weapons of mass destruction, be going on the media and saying that he did counts as lying.

Misinformation is almost a synonym of lying, hence, when No Limit brings up this issue (as you deem misinformation an issue) you should be agreeing with him and stating that republicans also misinform the public.

I see no reason for you to personally attack him.

On another note, I watched quite a convincing documentary that explained that Bill Clinton actually did not have an affair with monica lewinsky.

My problem isn't so much whether or not lying is an issue. Lying i never good. The issue is that he only thinks republicans lie when in fact both sides lie.

Politicians and commentators in the media are totally seperate. Yes, politicians lie, sure. But when people in the media lie those lies influance millions of people. And it has nothing to do with misinformation on their part, they are outright lies as my original article proves (you wouldn't know that as I don't think you even read the original post).

From what I understand the article is talking about politicians who gave out information that turned out to be incorrect in Iraq and the problem you have with it is that they gave out false information and the news channels reported on it so now that we have hindsite and see it's wrong it was clearly wrong for them to have been mislead.

Honestly that is what I am getting from it. I am not here to debate whether or not it was a lie but to me it doesn't seem to be clinton style lie where it is very clear he was in the wrong. Instead I am here asking why you think it is only republicans that lie.

 

[No Limit]

My problem isn't so much whether or not lying is an issue. Lying i never good. The issue is that he only thinks republicans lie when in fact both sides lie.

I hate repeating myself.

I never said democrats don't lie. I posted examples in the original post, you replied and said that democrats lie just as much as republicans. I call bullshit and I am still waiting for real examples of democrats lying, and being unchallanged, in main stream media.

Its odd the google search you pointed to shows an example of a lying republican in the first result. I could not find any example of a democrat lying in the meda, and I went through 4 pages.

And yes, I remember Clinton. You are right, lying about a personal relationship with a woman is the same as lying to get thousands of people killed.

From what I understand the article is talking about politicians who gave out information that turned out to be incorrect in Iraq and the problem you have with it is that they gave out false information and the news channels reported on it so now that we have hindsite and see it's wrong it was clearly wrong for them to have been mislead.

You are telling me these people with the world's largest media resources had no way to fact check? You are really going to try and argue that these people should be excused for simply taking what the administration gave them, putting their name on it, and releasing it without doing any research what so ever? See I believe they did their research and they knew they were lying, but wether they lied are just too stupid to spend 5 minutes fact checking something they should not be allowed to yell their opinions to millions of people unchallanged.

 

[Absinthe]

Oh. That's nice.

I think we need more lying in the media. To win the war on terror. Liberals and Democrats are undermining America's resolve with seeds of doubt.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I hate repeating myself.

Same...when I said democrats lie too you said bullshit. That right there means you disagree with democrats lying or think they don't lie as much which brings me back to the original point that you are creating stereotypes.

You are telling me these people with the world's largest media resources had no way to fact check? You are really going to try and argue that these people should be excused for simply taking what the administration gave them, putting their name on it, and releasing it without doing any research what so ever? See I believe they did their research and they knew they were lying, but wether they lied are just too stupid to spend 5 minutes fact checking something they should not be allowed to yell their opinions to millions of people unchallanged.

They got it from a credible source. IMO we should go down the line to find the fault not the people who report the information they were handed. Someone screwed up with the Iraq information thing and it would be nice to find out who but blaming the people who reported the information and saying all republicans are lying scumbag doesn't do anything but throw mud around. When something like this happens you can't start mudslinging and saying we have to stop the lies! It won't work, instead something like this is best used when the person who "lied" tries to report something else and you can reference to this event. That is why most politicians choose not to lie, as it can and should ruin their career.

 

[Tr0n]

Grlirk YOU are wrong. You're just god damn wrong and that's it.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Grlirk YOU are wrong. You're just god damn wrong and that's it.

Sorry I didn't realize republicans always lie and democrats rarely ever do.

 

[Tr0n]

Sarcasm nub.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Sarcasm nub.

:bonce:

 

[>>FrEnZy<<]

My problem isn't so much whether or not lying is an issue. Lying i never good. The issue is that he only thinks republicans lie when in fact both sides lie.

Considering that it is the republicans in power, considering that republican lies and misinformation have led to a seiries of catastrophic world events, I think it is inconcequential whether democrats lie or not. Also, when you compare the lies of the clinton adminstration to the lies of the Bush administration, I think you will see that the lies of the republican administration lead to much more devestation.

and by the way no limit, I don't think you should identify yourself as a democrat, it only throws you into a group for harrasment...which makes it painfully hard to communicate with people.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Considering that it is the republicans in power, considering that republican lies and misinformation have led to a seiries of catastrophic world events, I think it is inconcequential whether democrats lie or not. Also, when you compare the lies of the clinton adminstration to the lies of the Bush administration, I think you will see that the lies of the republican administration lead to much more devestation.

and by the way no limit, I don't think you should identify yourself as a democrat, it only throws you into a group for harrasment...which makes it painfully hard to communicate with people.

I am not gonna get into this again. Saying Republicans lie more because they are Republicans is ignorant. It is stereotyping. Not to mention the definition of a lie is thus from dictionary.com

A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.

Pay close attention to that word. Granted the Bush administration may have been very ignorant but there is a difference of what Bush did and what Clinton did. Bush followed faulty information that was presented to him as fact. Someone screwed up big. Clinton willingly lied.

Oh wait...I think you guys are right. Republicans do lie more. Oh and even better I think it must be white republicans that lie the most since white people are knwon to lie more than all the other races. Am I correct? I am following your guys logic here.