Considering a scooter

[DEATHMASTER]

get out of here r.a.p.s.t.a.r.

 

[Moto]

/me is waiting for praise for post, slightly irritated he hasn't received it already

That was an amazing post. I seriously chuckled.

 

[jverne]

Come back with some well ridden hours under your belt. It's pointless chatting with you otherwise.





MRG that is beautiful! Used to ride an old Kawa XJ650, one of the most balanced bikes i've ever ridden.

wait how does anything i said interfere with my "lack" of experience? please explain.

i never said that riding a 1000cc bike feels like a scooter or some stupid shit like that needs concrete experience.

if you are trying to say that lifting or backing up a 130kg bike is the same as a 70kg one...well i can't argue about your opinion, but my friend physics says there's a difference. anyway you don't really need that much experience to realize that. but since i'm honest, i'll tell you that i've sat alone on a 1000cc honda enduro (and also driven on it)...yes it is incredibly more stable (i never denied that), but it was obviously harder to move it around or make tight maneuvers with it. and if you loose balance (at stand still) on that thing there is little chance you'd easily get it back up, it is just too heavy.

and i repeat i never said a scooter is the same thing as a big bike or vice versa, if you might be thinking that.

Why would anyone who was into bikes give a damn about scooters - especially when you can buy a bike that annihilates expensive sportscars for less than the price of a scooter?

maybe some people are not interested in that.

You can't possibly say that because you don't have the experience of riding a proper bike to compare it to.

wait so you're trying to say that i don't have experience at how a scooter performs?

it doesn't matter if i've driven a proper bike, all i've said that all those problems you described didn't really bother me or didn't really saw them as problems. of course a proper bike performs better at a particular set of tasks, i never denied that. but that's really not the point.

example: if you like to often overtake cars at higher speeds, then obviously having a poor scooter will be a problem for you. but that is your style of driving.
or that a scooter has poor grip when doing a 90 degree curve at 100kph, well no shit. they aren't really meant for that.

I don't know where you live, but I don't know of any city where the speed never exceeds 30mph. In London, the traffic is either stationary, crawling along or travelling at 35-40mph. Consequently, scooters get ****ed over. On top of all this, it's usually safest to be travelling slighty faster than the rest of the traffic on a bike because that puts you in control of the situation, rather than leaving you at the mercy of everyone else on the road. You do not have this option on a scooter.

actually the speed limit in residential areas here is from 30 to 50kph. but if the traffic is stationary then a nimble scooter (without gears) obviously has an upper hand.
and i can prove that, because i've often skipped trough easier than other bigger bikes. or i could lift the bike on a high sidewalk, or turn the bike almost 360degrees so i can go trough an opening.

but ok...i've got to agree, that kind of driving isn't the most legal or admirable. but that's not the point i'm making.

It's also true that the level of riding displayed by scooterists is far, far below that displayed by both car drivers and motorcyclists, whereas the standard of riding demonstrated by motorcyclists is usually far higher than the standard of car drivers. I'm certainly concerned by your talking about riding on the "sidewalk"! You shouldn't need to reverse if you're riding properly anyway. For what it's worth, the ease of filtering on a bike is more about your slow control skills and how balanced the bike is then the actual weight of the machine.

I find my bike to be much easier to ride at 1-2mph in a straight line than a 125, and I've ridden bikes bigger than mine that I could actually balance at a standstill for 4 seconds feet up. I can't do that on mine.

of course it is, who ever said it isn't? heavier usually means more stable, but of course it depends on the weight distribution, but i'm talking in general.

that friend with the 1000 honda once parked (probably accidentally) in a hole in front of a wall, which meant he couldn't drive forward so he had to back it up...he couldn't back it up without the help of me and some other friend who was standing by.

and besides light bikes are usually less picky about their parking spot, they usually don't whine if the ground is to soft or angled. (but ok that's just a minor issue)

It's probably a combination of lack of training, the fact that scooter riders are just trying to get to work whereas motorcyclists are usually enthusiasts, some kind of feeling of invulnerability and the stupidity that asthmatic acceleration and a low top speed fosters in terms of never slowing down for anything.

I came across far more idiotic scooter riders commuting across London than I ever did car drivers or bikers. Being taught to ride a proper bike is therefore likely to make you a far better and safer rider than if you just jump on a scooter.

well...can't really comment on that. it's mostly true. but i'm not really arguing about that point.








the thing is...a 125cc is not really that dramatically different than a 50cc in terms of maneuverability an agility (actually the 125cc can be better at times, but the differences are not that huge) . i've also never said a 50cc is the ideal bike. personally i think a 125 if the best when it comes to amateur biking which offers best of both worlds.

remember i'm not saying 50cc scooters are awesome or that they can beat the shit out of big bikes. i'm just saying that they have their advantages and that they don't kill you the second you sit on it.

actually i really hope someday i'll buy a 125, riding bikes is awesome, that's why cars don't really mean much to me.

 

[Azner]

Mods

 

[repiV]

if you are trying to say that lifting or backing up a 130kg bike is the same as a 70kg one...well i can't argue about your opinion, but my friend physics says there's a difference. anyway you don't really need that much experience to realize that. but since i'm honest, i'll tell you that i've sat alone on a 1000cc honda enduro (and also driven on it)...yes it is incredibly more stable (i never denied that), but it was obviously harder to move it around or make tight maneuvers with it. and if you loose balance (at stand still) on that thing there is little chance you'd easily get it back up, it is just too heavy.

These things are only advantages to new riders or people who shouldn't get within six feet of any kind of bike. I haven't had to pick up my (210kg) bike since I had only a month or two's worth of riding experience - and it was quite possible to do so even then, there's a knack to it. Do you have a habit of dropping your scooter? If so I'd say that's more of a concern than how easy it is to pick it up again.

You shouldn't ever need to back it up unless you've parked facing a wall or a kerb. Certainly not while riding. And you shouldn't be losing your balance either! Again, not something I've done since I had less than a month's experience.

Basically all you're saying is that a scooter offers more concessions to crap riding, and that's true but I don't really see that as a good thing.

maybe some people are not interested in that.

Why would anyone get excited about hairdriers on wheels and not high performance bikes?

wait so you're trying to say that i don't have experience at how a scooter performs?

No, I said you don't have experience of how a decent bike performs.

it doesn't matter if i've driven a proper bike, all i've said that all those problems you described didn't really bother me or didn't really saw them as problems. of course a proper bike performs better at a particular set of tasks, i never denied that. but that's really not the point.

Many of the poorest people on the planet don't have a problem with their lives, because they don't know any different. People didn't see their cars as deathtraps before the advent of crumple zones, airbags, traction control and ABS. The bikers of yesteryear happily rode around on machines far more lethal and unforgiving than anything you can buy today wearing little or no protective or weatherproof clothing because it didn't exist back then. Like your experiences, these things are utterly irrelevant when drawing comparisons.

actually the speed limit in residential areas here is from 30 to 50kph. but if the traffic is stationary then a nimble scooter (without gears) obviously has an upper hand.
and i can prove that, because i've often skipped trough easier than other bigger bikes. or i could lift the bike on a high sidewalk, or turn the bike almost 360degrees so i can go trough an opening.

It doesn't matter what the speed limit is, what matters is the speed of the traffic. Most of our urban speed limits are around 50kph too, but the traffic generally moves a fair bit faster than that. If you can't keep up with the traffic flow, you're acting as a rolling roadblock and are in a very vulnerable position.

"Bigger bikes" could mean anything from a 125 to a Goldwing...most middleweight streetbikes will not be significantly slower than a scooter through traffic if ridden by someone competent. Hell, I used to filter through London traffic faster than a restricted scooter is even capable of travelling.

that friend with the 1000 honda once parked (probably accidentally) in a hole in front of a wall, which meant he couldn't drive forward so he had to back it up...he couldn't back it up without the help of me and some other friend who was standing by.

Well, he shouldn't have parked it in a silly place then.

and besides light bikes are usually less picky about their parking spot, they usually don't whine if the ground is to soft or angled. (but ok that's just a minor issue)

A more major issue is that your scooter is far more likely to be stolen than a big bike.

well...can't really comment on that. it's mostly true. but i'm not really arguing about that point.

It's a very important point when someone who is new to two wheels is asking for advice - riding a motorbike is one of the most dangerous things you can do, especially in the first couple of years. If you go into the side of a Range Rover at 30mph you will die, no matter what fancy gear you're wearing or how slow your scooter is. And on a scooter which encourages flat-out-everywhere riding, poor road sense and skills and which has comparitively shite brakes - you're much more likely to hit that Range Rover and be travelling at higher speed when you do so.

Just FYI, over 50% of bike accidents in the UK involve bikes/scooters under 125cc - and they are far more likely to be involved in accidents involving other vehicles than riders of big bikes.

remember i'm not saying 50cc scooters are awesome or that they can beat the shit out of big bikes. i'm just saying that they have their advantages and that they don't kill you the second you sit on it.

I never questioned that. It doesn't mean that a proper bike isn't the better choice.

actually i really hope someday i'll buy a 125, riding bikes is awesome, that's why cars don't really mean much to me.

Setting your sights low, aren't you?

 

[jverne]

These things are only advantages to new riders or people who shouldn't get within six feet of any kind of bike. I haven't had to pick up my (210kg) bike since I had only a month or two's worth of riding experience - and it was quite possible to do so even then, there's a knack to it. Do you have a habit of dropping your scooter? If so I'd say that's more of a concern than how easy it is to pick it up again.

You shouldn't ever need to back it up unless you've parked facing a wall or a kerb. Certainly not while riding. And you shouldn't be losing your balance either! Again, not something I've done since I had less than a month's experience.

Basically all you're saying is that a scooter offers more concessions to crap riding, and that's true but I don't really see that as a good thing.

first of all that's your personal experience, which i'm not saying that it's untrue.

but the point still stands, that light bikes have the upper hand when it comes to these issues.
if it is a good or bad thing, well it's not up to me to decide.

Why would anyone get excited about hairdriers on wheels and not high performance bikes?

probably somebody who doesn't want to be a bike enthusiast.

No, I said you don't have experience of how a decent bike performs.



Many of the poorest people on the planet don't have a problem with their lives, because they don't know any different. People didn't see their cars as deathtraps before the advent of crumple zones, airbags, traction control and ABS. The bikers of yesteryear happily rode around on machines far more lethal and unforgiving than anything you can buy today wearing little or no protective or weatherproof clothing because it didn't exist back then. Like your experiences, these things are utterly irrelevant when drawing comparisons.

the fact that i'm still alive after 8 years of driving proves that they aren't that lethal.

It doesn't matter what the speed limit is, what matters is the speed of the traffic. Most of our urban speed limits are around 50kph too, but the traffic generally moves a fair bit faster than that. If you can't keep up with the traffic flow, you're acting as a rolling roadblock and are in a very vulnerable position.

agree...but i'm arguing when the speeds are within the limit not over.

"Bigger bikes" could mean anything from a 125 to a Goldwing...most middleweight streetbikes will not be significantly slower than a scooter through traffic if ridden by someone competent. Hell, I used to filter through London traffic faster than a restricted scooter is even capable of travelling.

well without a competition or something we can't really know. it depends.
but you must admit that controlling a lighter bike is easier in really dense situations.

Well, he shouldn't have parked it in a silly place then.

agree...but the point still stands.

A more major issue is that your scooter is far more likely to be stolen than a big bike.

i still have mine, and never remember someone attempting to steal it...so....np for me

It's a very important point when someone who is new to two wheels is asking for advice - riding a motorbike is one of the most dangerous things you can do, especially in the first couple of years. If you go into the side of a Range Rover at 30mph you will die, no matter what fancy gear you're wearing or how slow your scooter is. And on a scooter which encourages flat-out-everywhere riding, poor road sense and skills and which has comparitively shite brakes - you're much more likely to hit that Range Rover and be travelling at higher speed when you do so.

sure, let the OP decide. i'm not arguing about this point. which is true BTW but still...not my concern.

Just FYI, over 50% of bike accidents in the UK involve bikes/scooters under 125cc - and they are far more likely to be involved in accidents involving other vehicles than riders of big bikes.

same as above...not really my concern.

I never questioned that. It doesn't mean that a proper bike isn't the better choice.

perhaps....but they probably are a matter of personal desire.

Setting your sights low, aren't you?

actually i'd go for a 500cc but out of my price range.

 

[repiV]

first of all that's your personal experience, which i'm not saying that it's untrue.

but the point still stands, that light bikes have the upper hand when it comes to these issues.
if it is a good or bad thing, well it's not up to me to decide.

A butter knife won't hurt you as much as a carving knife if you stab yourself with it, but you wouldn't use a butter knife in place of a carving knife because of it.

probably somebody who doesn't want to be a bike enthusiast.

Then they wouldn't be excited about the scooter either, would they?

the fact that i'm still alive after 8 years of driving proves that they aren't that lethal.

It proves nothing other than the fact that you're still alive. Complacency is lethal, and it only takes one accident to kill you. How many near misses have you had in the last year? How many times have you put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation? And how many times have you come off? For that matter, what's the betting you wear ordinary clothing because "it's only a scooter" making any accident that does occur that much worse?

"It can never happen to me", eh. Yeah, that's what I thought...

agree...but i'm arguing when the speeds are within the limit not over.

Why? It's of no relevance to anything.

well without a competition or something we can't really know. it depends.
but you must admit that controlling a lighter bike is easier in really dense situations.

Nope. Scooters are more forgiving of crap slow riding skills, that's all. If you're the kind of rider who wobbles about and drags his feet along the ground at low speed with tensed up arms on the bars, then you will find filtering on a big bike difficult. If you're riding relaxed with feet on the pegs as you should be and have good slow control skills, then it's a lot easier to ride a big bike at low speed than a small one. The only advantage a scooter has for a competent rider is that it's physically smaller and so it can fit through smaller gaps - but I've still been held up by scooters many times.
How quickly you can back it up or weave between lanes like a madman should be irrelevant, because it's bloody dangerous and doesn't really get you there any faster. Good filtering (and riding in general) is about planning and observation, not darting about like a bull in a china shop.

i still have mine, and never remember someone attempting to steal it...so....np for me

So? Scooters are much more likely to be stolen than big bikes.

sure, let the OP decide. i'm not arguing about this point. which is true BTW but still...not my concern.

same as above...not really my concern.

The OP is the whole reason we're having this discussion in the first place.

perhaps....but they probably are a matter of personal desire.

I'm not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with using a scooter to get around town, but it's not going to exhilirate like riding a real bike, nor is it going to engender skilled riding and a conscientious attitude like a bike does.

actually i'd go for a 500cc but out of my price range.

Are you sure? In the UK you can pick up a secondhand Honda CB500 that's not exactly pretty, but with bulletproof reliability for several hundred notes. 125s tend to be 1500 quid or more because the learner law increases demand massively.

I got my 100bhp 600 for ?1250 - 2002 plate, 13,000 miles, mint except for some minor cosmetic crash damage.