'Could' change the face of gaming as we know it

[shortsite]

What I want to know is will our current setups of Graphics Cards and Cpus take this way of producing graphics ?

And will the artists take longer to help to develop games now with the possibility of unlimited detail at their disposal

Discuss



Just a thought

 

[CptStern]

Notch says it's a scam:

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8386977075/its-a-scam

 

[Omnomnick]

"'Could' change the face of gaming as we know it"


But it won't.

 

[StardogChampion]

What I want to know is will our current setups of Graphics Cards and Cpus take this way of producing graphics ?

And will the artists take longer to help to develop games now with the possibility of unlimited detail at their disposal

Discuss

Do you even know what you're talking about? This is nothing new. Discuss.

 

[Vegeta897]

Yeah this is really old, and from what I remember pretty useless as a technology for gaming.

 

[sixteenth]

They still don't explain anything about how animations will work.

See Stern's post about Notch's say in the matter about more of the problems these developers aren't discussing.

 

[Ennui]

Anyone with a brain / vague understanding of the technical side of gaming was completely underwhelmed by this when they first announced it years ago and are even more unimpressed now.

 

[unozero]

ennui please explain why.
I think this would be cool but honestly I have no idea how this shit works.

 

[Ennui]

Read notch's post. Everything that purports to be better than reality is a scam. You see how repetitive and algorithmic all the content is? It's not comparable to traditional polygonal rendering and animation because it's nothing alike. It's just a glorified voxel engine. Each individual atom is not modeled like they make it out to be, it's just part of an equation that determines the nature/rendering of the particular segment of the environment. It could make for some interesting procedural content games but nothing remotely comparable to your typical mainstream modern polygonal stuff. I'm not a programmer so I can't be specific - that video is just a bunch of hyped up bullshit though.

 

[MultiVaC]

I remain skeptical as well. I don't know the exact details of what they are doing here (and the fact that they insist on being so vague about it doesn't inspire any confidence), but if it's anything like voxel solutions that we've seen before (and I'm betting that it is) they are neglecting to mention the major obstacles. Mostly regarding animation and the huge amount of data that comes with using an approach like this. Really, much of what Notch is saying. I'm not much of a programmer, but if I were interested in using tech like this, the first thing I would absolutely NEED to know is how they approach these things. It's a well known and massive obstacle, but they haven't spoken a word about animation or data management, even those are bound to be questions on everyone's mind if this is going to seriously considered. Instead they just keep repeating the word "UNLIMITED!!!!!", which is a hyperbole that should raise a red flag for anyone with any common sense. Unless they've discovered magic-based computers, nothing is unlimited in technology.

 

[Paulaner]

It's the old debate of procedural vs. statically-designed. You could bring the matter on a different plane: what would you think about procedural music in videogames? Do you think that complex musical algorithms could be better than a talented composer? Sometimes yes, sometimes not.

 

[shortsite]

Do you even know what you're talking about? This is nothing new. Discuss.

Well if its old then so be it, but not to me, this was something I came across and wanted to share with you guys on this forum.

 

[ríomhaire]

Voxels could still be really cool for physics destruction/construction based games, right?

Also, is there anything that would prevent using polygon-animated characters in a voxel-based world?

 

[sixteenth]

Also, is there anything that would prevent using polygon-animated characters in a voxel-based world?

This seems to be the compelling argument I've been seeing. But I mean, at what cost? We would lose all of the dynamics of world-rendering that we currently have with polygons (atm).

 

[Bad^Hat]

Also, things like swaying trees which aren't pre-set animations but physical interactions.

Wait... they are, right? I kind of just took that for granted. :v

 

[StardogChampion]

Voxels could still be really cool for physics destruction/construction based games, right?

Also, is there anything that would prevent using polygon-animated characters in a voxel-based world?

 

[Gargantou]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/outcast

Best game running on a voxel-based engine ever.

 

[ríomhaire]

I've seen some of these videos before but I always assumed the truck/tank he uses to demonstrate was voxels too. I can't watch this one with sound right now so does he say it's polygon in this one?

Edit: Oh right it says in the description that the truck is polygons. Ok cool.

 

[kupocake]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/outcast

Best game running on a voxel-based engine ever.

Isn't Outcast the only commercially significant game with a voxel-based engine?

(Genuinely interested if there's another. I've never heard of one).

Edit: of course, I could just wiki it myself. The answer being 'maybe Minecraft', since everything else listed there isn't really 'voxel-based'.

 

[Gargantou]

Isn't Outcast the only commercially significant game with a voxel-based engine?

(Genuinely interested if there's another. I've never heard of one).

Edit: of course, I could just wiki it myself. The answer being 'maybe Minecraft', since everything else listed there isn't really 'voxel-based'.

I honestly have no idea! Sorry.

 

[MultiVaC]

Also, things like swaying trees which aren't pre-set animations but physical interactions.

Wait... they are, right? I kind of just took that for granted. :v

I'm pretty sure it can be done either way. Most games use pre-set animations, but there are a few like Far Cry 2 that do it all through physical interactions, I think. Either way, it would be one of countless, really valuable things that would be lost if a game went with the "completely static voxel environment with polygon characters" approach.

 

[ríomhaire]

Isn't Outcast the only commercially significant game with a voxel-based engine?

(Genuinely interested if there's another. I've never heard of one).

Edit: of course, I could just wiki it myself. The answer being 'maybe Minecraft', since everything else listed there isn't really 'voxel-based'.

C&C Tib Sun and Red Alert 2 had voxel vehicle models, though everything else was 2D. I think Bladerunner had voxels on 2D backgrounds as well. I guess Westwood just liked it.

 

[Tagaziel]

Isn't Outcast the only commercially significant game with a voxel-based engine?

Comanche series come to mind, as does the Delta Force series (until Land Warrior I believe). Blade Runner also used voxels, though only for character models - everything else was pre-rendered.

 

[Remus]

Blood 1 also used voxels. Some of the items and props were made out of voxels.

 

[CR0M]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/outcast

Best game running on a voxel-based engine ever.

...and indeed one of the best pc GAMES ever. imo.

 

[Bad^Hat]

My grandfather had a Vauxhall.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Instead they just keep repeating the word "UNLIMITED!!!!!", which is a hyperbole that should raise a red flag for anyone with any common sense. Unless they've discovered magic-based computers, nothing is unlimited in technology.

My thoughts exactly. Even with no other experience or knowledge outside of playing games, this should have been the biggest warning sign.

 

[Remus]

If I remember correctly the way they explained it is that the PC is always limited to processing only what's visible, and the number of the voxels that are visible on screen at a time is limited by the resolution. So for example at any given time you would have 1920x1080 voxels on screen.

That being said it still can't do animation or physics, not to mention that the lighting is primitive.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

If I remember correctly the way they explained it is that the PC is always limited to processing only what's visible, and the number of the voxels that are visible on screen at a time is limited by the resolution. So for example at any given time you would have 1920x1080 voxels on screen.

I'm pretty sure that's raytracing.

 

[Vegeta897]

Yeah, that's not how voxels work.

 

[Remus]

Yeah, that's not how voxels work.

Then they are full of shit, since I clearly remember them explaining it that way...

 

[Vegeta897]

Who? The video in the OP is not voxel technology. IIRC.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

True, they don't actually say they're voxels per se, rather they call their building blocks "atoms." But it does seem to lead people who are familiar with voxels to make that connection (I thought, anyway).

 

[Remus]

Yeah, they call them virtual atoms, but in my opinion the idea is very similar to voxels.

 

[kupocake]

Comanche series come to mind, as does the Delta Force series (until Land Warrior I believe).

I like how wikipedia says 'Delta Force was praised for emphasizing "gameplay over graphics" in its time'. The engine equivalent of saying 'she has a wonderful personality'.

I'm actually surprised that Novalogic are still around, considering that they've traditionally relied on just about every failed PC mega-genre of yesteryear. Flight Sims, tactical shooters, a space sim... I guess being innovative and unusual enough to do something like using voxels has meant they've got a loyal niche?

 

[MJ12]

Are a lot of point and click adventure games made with voxels? Is that why their graphics usually look superior or at least very different, even in older games?

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Raytracing again

 

[Bob_Marley]

I like how wikipedia says 'Delta Force was praised for emphasizing "gameplay over graphics" in its time'. The engine equivalent of saying 'she has a wonderful personality'.

I'm actually surprised that Novalogic are still around, considering that they've traditionally relied on just about every failed PC mega-genre of yesteryear. Flight Sims, tactical shooters, a space sim... I guess being innovative and unusual enough to do something like using voxels has meant they've got a loyal niche?

Do remember that they made most of those games when the genres were rather popular. The voxels were always kind of meh, at least to me. Thier last big release, Joint Ops: Typhoon Rising, was firmly in the polygon camp and sold on its gameplay, like most of the rest of thier games. Its fondly remembered for its large scale MP and gamplay providing a nice middle ground between the Battlefield and Op Flashpoint/ArmA styles and had an active commuinty for quite a long time. Since then they've only put out the bargain basement Delta Force: Xtreme series (which is basically the original DF games with a new, polygon, engine). They're still chugging along, so we might see Angel Falls eventually. As I recall the only real advantage voxel based graphics offered at the time was massive maps a view distances compared to anything else out at the time, but that's not really an issue with modern computers/engines.

As for this stuff, well, I'm sure static environments will look very pretty, but I do wonder about physics/destruction/animation capabilities. But we will see. If it doesn't work, well, the Australian Government just got ripped off big style. And it'll be a couple years before we see a major release on this technology if it does work, so no point worrying about it now.