Could Kliener possibly be reverse-engineering something...???

[W4d5Y]

I saw the latest ep2 trailer, and from the first time I saw it...I had the impression, that that rocket of his wasn't something he has build himself, but rather maybe the project Mossman was looking for , as does the sentence 'I think we're getting somewhere' implies. I mean, if the rocket really was the rebellion's, and already was finished (judging to its looks:naughty: ), why should they 'be getting somewhere' if they hadn't already 'gotten somewhere', you know...I just don't think what he is working on was part of the rebellion's various 'projects'...I know the content of the rocket has already been discussed, but THIS theory has yet to be discussed...

 

[cojawfee]

It's possible that the roccket was damaged when the combine attacked.

 

[dal1978]

Chances are that the rocket wasn't built by the rebels. Most likely old Russian equipment left over from before the combine invasion. In which case they are getting somewhere in adapting it to deliver their newly designed payload, whatever that turns out to be.......

 

[Asknoone]

It isn't the Project, thats up North in the Arctic.

 

[Sub-Zero]

It isn't the Project, thats up North in the Arctic.

How do we know that for sure ?

 

[Reginald]

The map tileset is called "arctic" or somelike. And you can see Mossman dressed up all snug like. :E

 

[ríomhaire]

The comenetary states the game is in the artic. He also seems to be using Combine consoles...

 

[Asknoone]

How do we know that for sure ?

Named 'Arctic Base' in the commentary, snow seen behind her, she's wearing a winter coat and it was a location used in one of the storyline drafts.

He also seems to be using Combine consoles...

Kleiner? No he isn't.

 

[hool10]

OH SHII! I just got a great idea thanks too dal1978! What if Kleiner really is in Russia trying to send off a missile? Russia does have many nukes that have not been disarmed yet so what if it's a nuclear warhead!!? Half-Life after all is about radioactive material and Kleiner dealt with atomic energy a lot to power up the teleporter. So he would be the last few men in the rebellion to get a nuclear warhead going. I can't imagine the graphics will be like if a nuke goes off in Source though. Can anybody say super bright HDR? :naughty:

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Can anybody say super bright HDR? :naughty:

Maybe, but can you also say violent eye rape?

 

[Asknoone]

I firmly believe it isn't a nuke. They weren't much use in the 7-hour war, they aren't going to be much use now.

 

[Polaris]

He also seems to be using Combine consoles...

He using same consoles like in his laboratory (orange LCD with some material structure) maybe it's only placeholder texture but it could be related to vats with orange liquid in Kleiners lab.

 

[hool10]

I firmly believe it isn't a nuke. They weren't much use in the 7-hour war, they aren't going to be much use now.

I bet a nuke can do something with the combine's sensitive electronic equipment.

 

[Darkside55]

I firmly believe it isn't a nuke. They weren't much use in the 7-hour war, they aren't going to be much use now.

We're not sure of that. We don't know that a nuclear weapon was ever used against the Combine. In fact, in seven hours, I think most of the opposition to the Combine would've been infantry, and land/sea/air vehicles, an a whole contingent of other mobile weaponry, but not nukes. You have to imagine: the citadels bunked down in CITIES. We wouldn't have released nukes in cities unless it was an absolute necessity.

I imagine the nations of the world were mulling over the decision, ready to put their fingers to the button if need be, but before that could occur Dr. Breen stepped in and surrendered.

A nuclear warhead WOULD take out a citadel. Citadels aren't that tough and they don't seem to have any external defense systems to block incoming objects. No forcefield around them, you see. One good 50-megaton strike would turn a citadel to cinders.

That being said, a nuclear strike at this point in time would be useless. It's much, much, much more likely that satellite is carrying some payload that will shield Earth or otherwise protect the humans from the Combine's teleportation technology. If nothing else it will increase the worldwide damper on Combine communications, so even when they arrive they're out of contact with each other.

 

[Cuthbert]

We're not sure of that. We don't know that a nuclear weapon was ever used against the Combine.

Yes, we do. They didn't even scratch the citadels. Please don't make me search for its source

We wouldn't have released nukes in cities unless it was an absolute necessity.

What is an absolute necessity, if an alien invasion isn't?

A nuclear warhead WOULD take out a citadel.

Again, it's been stated that they didn't take out a citadel in 7 Hour War.

That being said, a nuclear strike at this point in time would be useless.

It won't be useless, if rebellion target something else. Air Exchange maybe? Ocean-Draining-Facilites, wherever that may be? Still, I don't think it's a nuclear weapon. I vote for something to stop portal storms.

 

[bigburpco]

I seriously can't remember where that was from.

 

[Asknoone]

ou have to imagine: the citadels bunked down in CITIES. We wouldn't have released nukes in cities unless it was an absolute necessity.

Absolute necessity? There's an alien invasion force pouring like ants from a spire, unrelentless and unstoppable. I'd say we've reached the point of 'absolute necessity' within the first few hours. There are quite a few cities, at least 30 that contain Citadels, and I'm pretty sure they'd have sacrificed one of those to fire a nuke at it.

A nuclear warhead WOULD take out a citadel. Citadels aren't that tough and they don't seem to have any external defense systems to block incoming objects. No forcefield around them, you see. One good 50-megaton strike would turn a citadel to cinders.

We don't really know how tough the Citadel actually is, and I doubt a nuke would destroy it.

Also, I'm sure they did say they used Nukes.

 

[A Big Fat CoW]

nothing about nukes was ever said in-game, and I don't believe RtB made mention of it either. The only source I remember hearing about nukes vs. citadels from is Parabellum, which is fanfiction.

If there is an official, canon source for this, though, I'm very curious to hear of it.

 

[Cuthbert]

I remember original plans for HL2 were to include an opening scene that shows 7 hour war, nukes being used against citadels etc. I will try to find the source now. However it may really be fanfiction related. Or did I read it in RtB?

 

[Jintor]

I figure humanity would fire nukes first chance it gets. Which would also probabyl be the last chance, considering.

 

[586FAC75]

When things got desperate during the 7 hour war, nuclear weapons would have been used.

I reckon the rocket has something to do with the satellite which was launched from Black Mesa in HL1.

 

[A Big Fat CoW]

When things got desperate during the 7 hour war, nuclear weapons would have been used.

I reckon the rocket has something to do with the satellite which was launched from Black Mesa in HL1.

People seem to forget how ridiculously short 7 hours really are.

Most countries would have little time to bring their mobile assets to bear (such as infantry, armor, navy, etc), let alone have enough time to 1; analyze the situation, 2; make the decision to deploy nukes (which would take a WHILE, considering that the citadels were smack in the middle of highly populated civilian areas.), and 3; make the preperations to do so (including getting the proper authorization.) These kinds of things take time. 7 hours is less than a third of a day.

I'm skeptical as to wether nukes could have been used in that amount of time, let alone wether or not they would.

But all of that's completely irrelevant until we figure out if they were used, which I still can't find any canonical evidence to support such a claim.

 

[Asknoone]

You are forgetting about the Portal storms, which have ravaged the planet for at least a week or so. The military has already been mobilized, the Earth is already in a state and I'm sure they'd have everything prepared for whatever else may come through those portals. Basically, at the point of Combine arrival we've already been completely overrun by aliens.

Authority, control...all out of the window.

 

[99.vikram]

I think the rocket is going to finish the job the Lambda satellite was supposed to do - seal earth's dimensional barriers for good. :sniper: Although how the vortigaunts would agree to this, I can't see. Unless Xen is in Combine hands already.

It doesn't matter how many times we beat the Combine if they have the power to just send more troops; ditto with antlions and headcrabs coing from the residual portal storms. The game has to finish with either -

(a) The Combine being wiped out (yeah, right )
(b) Earth being cut off from the 'larger universe'.

I was hoping when HL2 first came out that the game would end on a hopeful note, with the humans gaining their first glimpse outside our own dimension, but as long as the Universal Union exists, I don't see how this could happen. It looks like we will be confined to our own tiny insignificant little dimension for all eternity...

(Maybe Breen had the right idea?? :naughty
Of course, there is possibility (c) that humans agree to a truce with the Combine, but what with the Combine being ultra-evil, and hating Freeman, I don't see how this will happen either.

 

[pomegranate]

I'd actually go with 1) - don't forget, the G-Man has been postulated to be part of some other power fighting against the Combine. Humanity isn't the only power fighting the Combine. The Vorts are clearly up to something as well... An empire as powerful as the Combine will often become over-confident and in centralising its power can leave its heart vulnerable to unexpected, crippling attacks... well in Star Wars at least...

Unless all the Vorts (and whoever the G-Man works for) are trying to do is make Earth safe as a refuge from the Combine, for their own purposes...

 

[586FAC75]

People seem to forget how ridiculously short 7 hours really are.

Um...7 hours long?

Seriously though, it's a roughly a quarter of a day...If things were going that bad after 6 hours into the enslavement of the human race, I'd be inclined to see if the big guns could even out the score.

Tis all speculation though, of course. Neither of us is right nor wrong.

 

[W4d5Y]

I'd say you can't just launch a rocket, maybe if infrastucture is still active, in case that the timespan BMinvasion-7h war wasn't to long...of course, RtB told us Laidlaw once took into concideration, that the people fled into the greater cities due to the Portalstorms, what wouldn't have to result in a destruction of all human organization, (although I wonder how you could take care of a view million people with limited supplies, such as vital food as the world had already been taken over by Xenaliens prior to the combine and left no fields you could raise grain on etc.) but still the military was there as well, if we take RtB into concideration, so no matter wether the invasion took place after a view years time, following the BMincident or only in a matter of weeks, there certainly wasn't some personal left to take care of any military, nuclear underground facilities and just shoot some big rocket if they were told so...of course there still could've been submarines, they certainly could have floated around in the oceans, regardless, the citadels could probably have standed some view kilotons of explosives, they could fall onto cities, spawning huge blastpits and still wouldn't be bothered^^
Nevertheless, this has been discussed now. And now: return to topic, or you will be shot! We started with the longly theorized Kleiner rocket, or rather it's content, no matter electrical device or not-.-

 

[Darkside55]

Yes, we do. They didn't even scratch the citadels. Please don't make me search for its source

Absolute necessity? There's an alien invasion force pouring like ants from a spire, unrelentless and unstoppable. I'd say we've reached the point of 'absolute necessity' within the first few hours. There are quite a few cities, at least 30 that contain Citadels, and I'm pretty sure they'd have sacrificed one of those to fire a nuke at it.

We don't really know how tough the Citadel actually is, and I doubt a nuke would destroy it.

You can't imagine the decision world leaders would have to make in that situation. The words "absolute necessity" really means, "We have NO other choice, whatsoever." And it's not as easy as just saying, "We can't stop these aliens with whatever we have, let's use nukes."

The cities are still POPULATED. Most of them haven't been, or cannot be evacuated. Can you imagine sitting in on a discussion with other world leaders and having to decide, "Do we stop the aliens by any means necessary, even if it means sacrificing the lives of millions of innocent people?" Can you imagine having to weigh the numbers, how many people would survive even IF the Combine were defeated? How many people would survive post-invasion if nuclear weapons were used? It's not a decision you can make lightly, and definately not within seven hours.

People seem to forget how ridiculously short 7 hours really are.

Most countries would have little time to bring their mobile assets to bear (such as infantry, armor, navy, etc), let alone have enough time to 1; analyze the situation, 2; make the decision to deploy nukes (which would take a WHILE, considering that the citadels were smack in the middle of highly populated civilian areas.), and 3; make the preperations to do so (including getting the proper authorization.) These kinds of things take time. 7 hours is less than a third of a day.

I'm skeptical as to wether nukes could have been used in that amount of time, let alone wether or not they would.

But all of that's completely irrelevant until we figure out if they were used, which I still can't find any canonical evidence to support such a claim.

Indeed. I was thinking the same thing. It takes time to deploy WMDs. And again, with the cities full of people, the deliberations would've taken so long...

You are forgetting about the Portal storms, which have ravaged the planet for at least a week or so. The military has already been mobilized, the Earth is already in a state and I'm sure they'd have everything prepared for whatever else may come through those portals. Basically, at the point of Combine arrival we've already been completely overrun by aliens.

Authority, control...all out of the window.

Ground infantry was mobilized, along with tanks and mortars and that sort of thing. They were in a state of defense, not in a state of war. It's different...they were defending the population against a bunch of wild animals. What they'd be doing at that point is evacuating people to more secure locations (the cities, out of suburbs and outlying "wild" areas), and exterminating all xenotheric life.

They were completely blindsided by the Combine. The governments of the world still had control during the portal storms, it was just a tense situation. After that...wham, full-scale invasion, right in the heart of the places where people were being evacuated to. Would you use a nuke if you just had to move a bunch of people into a city to protect them from what was a threat, but now you've got an even bigger threat on your hands?

Remember in Independence Day, they didn't even use the nukes until everyone in the cities were DEAD and humanity really was about to go extinct. And Bill Pullman STILL had reservations on using them. THAT is absolute necessity. When we are so fvcked we have our backs to the wall, and we can't do ANYTHING else.

Thank God for Dr. Breen.

 

[357]

I totaly agree with Darkside, even IF nukes were powerfull enough to take out the citadels, would you sacrifise so many inocent lifes ;(... Imagine destroying, lets say 30 biggest world cities :cheese: , wich at that time were even more heavily populated, even crowded i'd say. It' s not worth the risk

 

[Cuthbert]

Ok, end of discussion. Here's my mail to Mr.Laidlaw:

Hi Mr. Laidlaw,

We were discussing what's Kleiner planning to launch in Ep2, and I
remembered reading somewhere, or having a friend whose friend knows a
friend who read it somewhere, that during 7 Hour War, nukes were used
against the Citadels but they weren't even scratched. Is this accurate?

Thanks

And here's his reply:

Hi...we've never said anything about that, so it's certainly not info
from the games. Thanks for your interest!

Marc Laidlaw

So, Darkside is *again* right. Note to self: Avoid reading too much singleplayer myhtology theories.

 

[Crimo]

they are going to teleport that nuke to combine's world, thats why they needed the message that was stolen, so they could see the coords that it was meant to be sent... heh just a comment

 

[586FAC75]

Remember in Independence Day, they didn't even use the nukes until everyone in the cities were DEAD and humanity really was about to go extinct. And Bill Pullman STILL had reservations on using them. THAT is absolute necessity. When we are so fvcked we have our backs to the wall, and we can't do ANYTHING else.

How many movies and programmes have you seen a decision was made to destroy something knowing that many people would die only to ensure the preservation of the greater good?

Edit: In light of Cuthbert's email, the above is codswollop now

 

[Cuthbert]

they are going to teleport that nuke to combine's world, thats why they needed the message that was stolen, so they could see the coords that it was meant to be sent... heh just a comment

No, they stole it because "it was bad news for resistance". Alyx wanted to learn what's so important for combine that they're detonating their precious Citadel to send that information.

 

[Asknoone]

You can't imagine the decision world leaders would have to make in that situation. The words "absolute necessity" really means, "We have NO other choice, whatsoever." And it's not as easy as just saying, "We can't stop these aliens with whatever we have, let's use nukes."

The cities are still POPULATED. Most of them haven't been, or cannot be evacuated. Can you imagine sitting in on a discussion with other world leaders and having to decide, "Do we stop the aliens by any means necessary, even if it means sacrificing the lives of millions of innocent people?" Can you imagine having to weigh the numbers, how many people would survive even IF the Combine were defeated? How many people would survive post-invasion if nuclear weapons were used? It's not a decision you can make lightly, and definately not within seven hours.

Yes, but were talking about an already stretched thin military force. They have already been out there, fighting for more than a week against relentless forms of aliens. There are at least 30 cities, ONE of them could easily be sacrificed in the face of this large threat. They'd be picking up Citadels across the planet, the Combine would be laying waste to the populace and the military and within 5-hours the agreement to fire, though not a decision any of them WANT to make, they'd go ahead and fire.

Of course, at this point Breen has significant influence over the Government, and could sway them against a nuclear strike.

Whether a nuke was fired or not, I doubt it would severely impact the Citadel. Saying it wouldn't for definate is merely speculating.

 

[Broso]

Fighting more than a week? It's called the 7 Hour war... because it took 7 hours. They were caught completely off guard and wrecked in 7 hours then Breen gave humanity up to the Combine 'cause he realised we were ****ed.

 

[Asknoone]

Fighting more than a week? It's called the 7 Hour war... because it took 7 hours. They were caught completely off guard and wrecked in 7 hours then Breen gave humanity up to the Combine 'cause he realised we were ****ed.

Nice one.
It's actually called Portal storms. Which happened at least a week before the Combine arrived.

 

[Crimo]

No, they stole it because "it was bad news for resistance". Alyx wanted to learn what's so important for combine that they're detonating their precious Citadel to send that information.

Yes, SHE DID STEAL IT because of that, but think, did alix knew about that nuke in episode 1? no she didnt, im thinking forward, im speculating i know, but i m not agree that your point makes mine look as wrong, damn my english is bad.

 

[ríomhaire]

You are forgetting about the Portal storms, which have ravaged the planet for at least a week or so. The military has already been mobilized, the Earth is already in a state and I'm sure they'd have everything prepared for whatever else may come through those portals. Basically, at the point of Combine arrival we've already been completely overrun by aliens.

Authority, control...all out of the window.

I'd say much more than a week Samon. In the cut scenes Elis says there was an illusion of safety for a time. I'm sure it would take more than a week to make people feel safe again when they've just been torn apart from alien attacks.

And the idea of a nuke not scratching the paint of the citadel seem very...I don't know...I'll go with crap on so many levels, story or otherwise.

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, I know it was longer than a week - hence the at least. I'm pretty sure if the nuke got into contact with the structure it'd do hefty damage, but I don't think it would get near it.

 

[hool10]

they are going to teleport that nuke to combine's world, thats why they needed the message that was stolen, so they could see the coords that it was meant to be sent... heh just a comment

Heh been watching the movie Stargate a little? Not a bad idea imo. :thumbs: