Creating guns for game usage.

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Sorze

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I've just recently started modeling weapons for future hl2 modding, and I'm wondering what parts of models do you have to do seperately.
I mean It can't be a whole continuous mesh right?

A handgun for example:
I guess the top part (slide.. ?) has to be one, since that moves when you fire it. The trigger can be part of the .. well biggest model (with the grip), since the finger always covers the trigger anyways.. Right?

And what about the ... cock...? lol.. when you cock the gun, that small thin thing... Does that have to be a separate model or what? Because that moves too when you fire, does it have to be separate then?

Also, the separate models, do i just attach them (in max) when im done or what?

Please help me out, and feel free to give some general tips about modeling and skinning. I know how to skin too but since the model isn't done, that can wait..

I'm thinking 3rd person, so the guns dont have to be superdetailed, but still.. A moving slide is a must, I believe..

Ps. I'm swedish so I don't know the name of all this stuff in english, so shoot me! :P
I'm quite new to both skinning and modeling, but it's going great and I'll show you some stuff later.
 
You can model them however you feel comfortable, but I think many find it easier to do a good job by modeling in separate sections then welding parts together when their done. That way you can concentrate on smaller sections and make them as optimised as you possibly can without worrying about the whole object at once.

From there you can start to worry about what will and wont be seen in game.. In the case you mention then you'll likely need to model all of it without removing sections that wont be seen, since most of it will be visible.

Also depending how close you get to it depends how much work you need to put into it, if its never more than a small distant object then you'll be spending more time on quality textures rather than polygons. or vise versa

Parts that you plan to have animated in the game you need to keep as separate objects though, or on different layers. It depends really on the program you use and how the Source handles the newer .mdl format. There will probably be plenty of info about that once the SDK is released and once software starts to appear that can view the new formats natively.

And don't worry, your Engrish is just fine :)
 
Thanks for the help Fenric, appreciate it..

About things not being visible and all.. About the trigger, iwas just saying that it's not really needed to animate that right? because the finger should cover it all the time, and if it's going to be 3rd person, just a tad bit overkill imo.

I've never worked with layers in max, but I guess that'll all get sorted when the sdk comes out. I have the feeling that the sdk won't be released anytime soon, but we can hope.

For now I'll just model some stuff separately (in the same .max file, just different meshes), like the slide atleast, and leave it at that at the moment..

Doesn't seem like a bad idea, right?



Edit: Fenric, aren't you part of a mod team (or something even more serious)? I seem to remember something vague about some kind of games development..
 
Sorze said:
Thanks for the help Fenric, appreciate it..

About things not being visible and all.. About the trigger, iwas just saying that it's not really needed to animate that right? because the finger should cover it all the time, and if it's going to be 3rd person, just a tad bit overkill imo.

I've never worked with layers in max, but I guess that'll all get sorted when the sdk comes out. I have the feeling that the sdk won't be released anytime soon, but we can hope.

For now I'll just model some stuff separately (in the same .max file, just different meshes), like the slide atleast, and leave it at that at the moment..

Doesn't seem like a bad idea, right?



Edit: Fenric, aren't you part of a mod team (or something even more serious)? I seem to remember something vague about some kind of games development..
Click to expand...

Yeah don't bother animating the trigger finger like that if its barely noticable, it would be a nice touch if you did. But leave it as one of those things to do right at the end if you've time and feel like it.

and yeah i work in the industry
 
On another note, should I always try to keep my polygons foursided (quads..?)?
I'm pretty sure that's what I heard anyways.
I'm quite new to modeling, so I was under the impression that bigger polygons = better than many small ones..

But foursided is best because they can be split into triangles or what?



On yet another note, what is causing this weird smoothing error.?

The handle used to be worse, but the slide looks bad man.. Look at the unrendered pic, you clearly see I've modeled it nice and obvious, but the render looks weird. You also clearly see that I don't know how to do those pimpin grey renders other people do...

Anyways, my second gunmodel, and I think it looks pretty great actually. Did it in two sittings.
 
Your quads will be turned into tri's when they go into the engine (most engines) so whatever your quad count, double it and thats the real poly count.. I personally prefer modeling with quads, you just need to keep an eye on the poly count and always remember its twice as much

-

there's an area at the bottom of the handle pic that could do with cleaning up, fixing the polys there

-

As for those fancy renders people do... Thats just mostly them being lazy and using straight global illumination... Stick around cause Sidewinder has a tutorial/article that should be up any day now which covers good lighting methods for weapon renders. Should be a good read...... once its up ;)
 
Thanks for your help Fenric (even though you seem to be the only one caring for my threads... :frown: ).

But what about the barrel? There's some kind of smoothing problem there as well.

I think I might create a thread at the modeling forums, I could use some regular c&c. Hope you don't think I'm spamming threads... :o
 
Yeah, great!

I'm not sure anyone's going to see it... but anyways...

This is a model of a Colt 1911 which I've modeled in two (and a half...) sittings, a few hours. It's my second gunmodel ever, and I'm quite new to modeling/skinning.

I guess it's a work in progress, eventhough I'm quite happy with it. And I also really feel like skinning it... (so hurry up with the critique so I know what I'm supposed to change)

I've tried to model it like a real gun would be built up, so it will look realistically during reload (check out pic no 3), and it's slightly above 1000 triangles (gun, slide, mag, all of it combined).

I'm thinking about using it for a 3rd person mod, so the whole gun would be visible, so no cheating by deleting unseen faces (not many atleast). And I'm thinking akimbo 1911 so the total tri-count is about 2000 then.. Too much ?

Is it too detailed/detailed enough? What's good and what's not so good about it?

Help me out! :cheers:

ps. Fenric, yeah please move the thread to the modeling forum.. I think the first posts might be interesting to others in there as well.
 
Well, the magazine looks a little bit thick to me.. rember, that's on .45 caliber (.45 inches) rounds in there.

You need to apply smooth groups to the barrel, handle, etc :). You should play around with those a bit until you get them to feel right.

Also, you cna always detach part of you model that, if you realize you need to animated it seperatly...
 
Well, the magazine looks a little bit thick to me.. rember, that's on .45 caliber (.45 inches) rounds in there.
Click to expand...

Haha, ohh yeah, that's right, I forgot!! :rolleyes:

Keep in mind I don't really know anything about weapons, so the magazine thickness was just really guesswork.

(Don't think I'm mocking you btw Sidewinder, it was just kind of funny since weapon specs don't tell me anything, I just know what I've seen in movies.. ie. not much :P )


Also, I don't really know what smoothing groups are (I'm a newbie). Are they like mesh smooth on just parts of a mesh ? And is that really a good idea for things that are supposed to be used ingame?

Thx for the help sidewinder :)
 
It's great how noone is able to find this thread, and I've already had a moderator move it insteand of me making a new one................

just changed the thickness of the mag, and cleaned some stuff up. Would be great if some more could give some advice on improving it.

It's still at about 1000 triangles, is that allright for a 3rd person mod? I'll probably want akimbo 1911 (two of 'em) aswell, is the polycount allright for that?





SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE: You want to check out the daily sketch thread in the art forum, and tell Sorze how great he is!
 
I don't remember a specific polycount being given for 3rd person weapon models...
 
Looks good mate :thumbs: However, people are getting used to seeing flawless models nowadays so nows the time to get better.
 
For 3th person MODs I think it's best to focus on the textures and the back of the main character instead of having 2500polys on the weapons so i'd say it's a pretty good model. With smoothing groups and a good texture it will look very good!
 
there isn't a hard number on the PC count for third person. Basically i'm using kinda the same formula for hl2 as for hl1 if in hl2 2500 is hte magic number then for third i'm doing a % of that, roughly 1000. this way you'll keep the mid end machines from comletely crapping out.
 
all u 3d modelers'. did u all buy 3dmax or is the like a free download? how much would it be?
 
Allright!! Feedback at last! :frog:

Thx for your comments, took a while for your to find this thread huh ? :P
I haven't started skinning yet (thank god) so what should I change in the model?

Since I'm going to use one colt in each hand (1 + 1 = 2 ) that leaves the polycount at 2000. Is that okay?

Someone said they weren't perfect, but didn't tell me what to change!
What's up with that, just hit me! Tell me what's wrong (if there is any).

And can someone please tell me what smoothing groups are? sounds like mesh smooth on a specific area . . ?

wbcheater, about 3dsmax... I don't have the money to buy it. I have obtained it "otherwise". Not proud of that, but it was the only way.
I think there is some kind of free-download-Max though, but I'm not sure.




Seems noone has noticed my subliminal message in a previous post yet.. ;(
 
Smoothing groups are really useful because they can give roundness to certain parts of a model without having to increase the poly count. Like when you create a sphere for example, all the faces are assign to smoothing groups (by default), that's why it looks round even if it has ... 14 polys for examples... To assign smoothing groups, go into sub object mode and select face. Now select the faces on your model that you want to be rounded, like on the handle. Now go way down in the right menu... you'll find alot of small buttons with numbers on them. Click on a number, let's say: 15. All the faces that have been assigned the number 15 will be smooth along each other. Repeat the procedure with other parts of your model. Assign different numbers.

And yea it works in game!! Isn't it cool ?! :)

Oh and the free version of 3dsmax is Gmax . You can do all your modeling in it but it has no render options and fancy 3dsmax stuff... but it's very good for game models.
 
Ti133700n thanks man!! that helped alot, even helped me find a part that was wrongly smooth, that had been bothering me..

Subliminal Message: You feel like going to the art forum, and checking out Sorzes stuff in the daily sketch thread!


........


Thanks, I really learned something new there, actually...

But I'm going to start skinning it soon.. Noone's told me of some kind of huge doodoo in the model yet though..

Please don't tell me the humongous fault with it when I've gotten half way into skinning...

okay!? :devil:


ps. Looks allright now right? no smoothgroups abusing even though it's my first time playing with them, me thinks...
 
Yea! It looks alot better now :) I have included a pic to show you where it needs to be rounded. It's the same on the other side of the model.
 
Thanks alot for the help!
Lucky I haven't started skinning yet...

I haven't used wireframe that much previously, and the second I used it I found a weird vertex welded to another through the handle.. must've happened when I was creating a polygon or something. (I fixed it ofcourse :P )

I tried not to overuse the smoothing groups before, because it looked like crap when I (just for fun) did it on the whole model..

I applied smoothing where you said I should, and well.. Tell me how I can improve it. I'm not too fond of some parts of it.


Edit: And maybe someone can tell me how to do those renders where you see the model but you see the wireframe too ?
 
Thx for the offer man, but I don't use messaging programs. If I want someone something, I'll just call his/her cellphone.
msn etc., I don't like... :dozey:

Anyways, thx for your help, it's been real useful. But I think this is the time to start skinning! :afro:

I just recently bought a wacom graphire 3, and I'm eager to try it out for skinning..
If anyone knows any good skinning tutorials, feel free to post a link..
I have a feeling that the handle is going to be quite the challenge.'

I'll see you later, when I have something new to show (off)..
 
Ok np :) If you want good tutos for skinning in photoshop try this: Photoshop Skinning Tutos

They are not deep step by step tutos but it has nice examples on how to do metal, plastic and wood textures.
 
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