Creationist: Dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark

[Gunner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&q=kent+hovind+fraud&btnG=Recherche+Google&meta=

This guy is an ass, tax fraud, and an uneducated bible freak.

And I can't believe what I'm hearing right now, he's saying dragons did exist... WTF. This is possibly the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.

 

[el Chi]

I must confess in advance that I have not watched the video, because a) it's very long and I have work to start; b) by the sounds of things, it's the same thinly-stretched, fatuous "explanations" I've heard a hundred times before; c) there's every chance it will make me extremely agitated.

Creationist excuses for the discoveries of modern science, more often than not, beggar belief - they come off as contrived, unconvincing and the age-old task of grasping at straws with illusions of bricks. Selective readings of the Bible try and extract some sort of allusion to a creature that resembles a dinosaur, yet when there are thousands of species of dinosaurs that have been discovered all over the world, most of which are extremely distinctive (that is to say, a Biblical "description" of a brachiosaurus cannot be said to also represent a Velociraptor - they are quite patently two different animals) this endeavour seems desperate in the extreme, not to mention wilfully ignorant.
The lack of understanding most creationists show for the scientific discoveries they aim to debunk is astounding - how can one expected to be taken seriously when, at almost every turn, they put their proverbial foot in their mouth? Ironically, they simply debunk themselves.

 

[Mr Stabby]

If David Attenborough says creationism is rubbish, then it's ruibbish...

 

[Voodoo_Chile]

If David Attenborough says creationism is rubbish, then it's ruibbish...

Has he actually said that? Cause if he has then thats final. No one argues with that man.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I've seen him say it on 2 seperate occasions on TV, once on 'tonight with Jonathon Ross' and on the programme Richard Dawkins made about religion called 'the root of all evil'

 

[el Chi]

I've seen him say it on 2 seperate occasions on TV, once on 'tonight with Jonathon Ross' and on the programme Richard Dawkins made about religion called 'the root of all evil'

A few points:
1. Sir David Attenborough is a national treasure.
2. Him rubbishing creationism makes me feel happy and warm inside.
3. That Dawkins program was, in equal parts, hilarious and shameful. As an atheist, I felt mildly embarassed by his technique of arguing against religion. For the most part, I agreed, but sometimes he was just painfully partisan, displaying the same arrogance he was criticising in the religious.
On the other hand, his vehemence and some of the interviews were utterly hysterical (albeit mildly cringeworthy). It was jaw-slackeningly good viewing.
Especially with Channel 4's "These do not necessarily represent the views of Channel 4" disclaimer. No, of course they don't
4. I share my birthday with Sir David Attenborough, bringing me that extra step closer to being a demi-god.

 

[CptStern]

take the dinosaur quiz!

http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/dinoquiz.html

Q: Where did most of the dinosaur fossils come from?

Answers:
a. A worldwide flood
b. Millions of years of dinosaur deaths
c. Africa
d. Nobody knows

okay, I pick b. millions of years of dinosaur deaths ...a pop up immediately informs me that I'm wrong and that my score is 0 (I got number 1 wrong too but that was more of a guess) ...they actually said the answer was wrong ..they say the real answer is a. .... :O

in fact I got almost all of them wrong ..this is the worst I've ever done on a quiz ...ever




did you know there were actually 3 arks?

http://www.2think.org/images/noah.jpg



here's an article about how noah stuffed all those animals on the ark

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/arksize13.asp

in it they talk about how noah didnt have to bring all species of animals ..for example: Noah didnt bring wolves, coyotes and jackals ..just a pair of dogs because from those 2 dogs wolves, coyotes and jackals evolved .....in 4000 years ..same goes for horses, donkeys and zebras ...all represented by a pair of horses

oh and the insects survived by floating of pieces of vegetation during the storm ...I shit you not

Noah did not need to take sea creatures4 because they would not necessarily be threatened with extinction by a flood.

what happened to the fresh water animal life? I guess they somehow magically adapted to fresh water after the flood receded?


so the grand total of how many animals were onboard noah's ark is:16,000


16,000 animals that in 4000 years becomes billions ..... :O


http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/arksize13.asp




Laivasse: you'll appreciate this one :thumbs:

I don't get the problem; they were on the ark.

nah you're lying right? ...you cant possibly be serious can you?

 

[short recoil]

OMFG
It's a damn joke and it's still clutched onto.

 

[Sulkdodds]

It's "the sleep of reason" and I firmly believe that it is the single most terrible force in the world today.

Agreed! That was ****ing impressive.

That quiz incenses me. Defiantly, I click 'the dinosaurs were not on the ark' and it has the gall to flash in my face: Wrong! lol! Look here, you living shit! How dare you have the arrogance to tell me this? I know my f*cking dinosaurs from my Acrocanthosaurus to my Yangchuanosaurus! I bet you don't even know what a Yangchuanosaurus was! It was a medium-sized late Jurassic Saurischian, a small Allosaurid, in fact, a biped and a carnivore discovered relatively recently in China! You c*nt!

Edits say I lie? On the contrary! I merely spelled Saurischian wrong!

 

[ComradeBadger]

Religion in the entire world is big. Not just the US.

I think Religion and Science are completely seperate entities. One deals with faith and the afterlife, the other deals with the past, present, and future of our corporeal world... how it works.

Seperate beasts, in my eyes.

Agreed.

 

[15357]

Liberals are great at getting us to argue the wrong subject

The only statement in the whole entire video that I did not go MURDER DEATH KILL mode.

 

[CptStern]

is there such a thing as "liberal" in your neck of the woods? I thought neo fascism was the norm there?



:E

 

[Mr Stabby]

The only statement in the whole entire video that I did not go MURDER DEATH KILL mode.

Sir David Attenborough seem quite Liberal though, and he is always right

 

[Warbie]

I had to give up after 20 minutes or so - frustrating stuff.

 

[el Chi]

did you know there were actually 3 arks?

http://www.2think.org/images/noah.jpg

There are marsupials only in Australia because an ark blew off course and crashed there? That's the best they could come up with? How about: "Uh, they all went on vacation there and liked it so much they stayed, because God told them to."

Oh, and according to that quiz, dinosaurs originally all ate plants. But if they all died in the flood and had to chance to evolve, then why did some eat meat? I mean, presumably if the dinosaurs originally all ate plants, there must have been an event to change that, so what was it? And if they originally ate plants, how can one explain the many dinosaurs with all the characteristics of carniovres (large serrated teeth, etc)?
The mind boggles.

Liberals are great at getting us to argue the wrong subject

Like what? Facts?

There it is - creationists making me agitated.

 

[CptStern]

There are marsupials only in Australia because an ark blew off course and crashed there? That's the best they could come up with? How about: "Uh, they all went on vacation there and liked it so much they stayed, because God told them to."

that's actually more plausible ..god told the mother****ing marsupials to take a vacation in australia .....but if that were true ..how did the non-marsupials get there? and if they migrated there why didnt the marsupials become expats and emmigrate to other countries? overbearing nationalism? cultural shock was too much for them?


oh and if the dinosaurs all sank in one of the doomed arks why are there fossils throught out the globe? wouldnt they be concentrated in a small area at the bottom of the ocean? ...next to a rotting behemoth of a boat

Oh, and according to that quiz, dinosaurs originally all ate plants. But if they all died in the flood and had to chance to evolve, then why did some eat meat? I mean, presumably if the dinosaurs originally all ate plants, there must have been an event to change that, so what was it? And if they originally ate plants, how can one explain the many dinosaurs with all the characteristics of carniovres (large serrated teeth, etc)?
The mind boggles.

and if they only ate plants wouldnt the methane in the ark get to the point where lighting a cigarette was a lot like playing with a nuke? "oh noes dino farts killed us all"

 

[Mr Stabby]

So everbody died, except Moses, so we are all decended from Moses...

 

[ríomhaire]

Both groups do it to each other. They assault each other and live together like oil and water... why can't it be like oil and oil, or water and water?

Because science is based on fact and religion on faith.

 

[CptStern]

well moses and his family ..8 in total .....from 8 people to 6 billion people in 4000 years

 

[Mr Stabby]

XFD at "humans hunted dinosaurs, they called them dragons"

 

[Warbie]

well moses and his family ..8 in total .....from 8 people to 6 billion people in 4000 years

That's alot of ****ing.

 

[Mr Stabby]

"If nobody has ever seen one why are their drawings" (talking about dragons)


OMG aliens must be real, run for the hills!!

 

[Warbie]

// edit

 

[ríomhaire]

ríomhaire says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#The_Hovind_Theory
ríomhaire says:
Can you explain to me how a metior can break up and the chunks hit both the north AND south poles?
Phil says:
...h4x?
ríomhaire says:
haha

Made me lol Phil ^_^

 

[CptStern]

That's alot of ****ing.

ya ..but what I'm really interested in finding out is ....where do the chinese come from? and japanese, mongolian, african, aboriginal etc ...if there was a gene pool of just 8 people (presumably all of the same ethnic background) ..where did all these other groups come from? and different languages, culture art etc? did that all develop in less than 4000 years? ok language I understand cuz according to the bible, Nimrod built the tower of babel and pissed off God. God punished them by smiting them ...after the dust settled the inhabitants of babel learned they spoke different languages and couldnt understand each other ....what happened to them immediately after the tower incident? did they migrate to the 4 corners of the world? for example if one of the people standing near the tower of babel, and they're zapped by the mighty finger of god and all of a sudden their language switches over to say chinese ...did he then migrate to what is now china so that he could plant the seeds that will later lead to over 1 billion chinese the world round ...what if the guy who spoke english had an unfortunate accident on the way to england ...maybe that's why english wasnt in the mainstream till much later on...



so many stupid questions with even stupider answers

 

[JNightshade]

Bill Bryson's book, A Short History of Nearly Everything, really ought to be mandated in schools. It's obviously not the FINAL source for any of these debates, but it's extremely informative and very entertaining.

 

[Llama]

Made me lol Phil ^_^

No problem :afro:

 

[el Chi]

That's alot of sinning.

Fixed.
Also, isn't incest forbidden in the Bible?

 

[jverne]

well moses and his family ..8 in total .....from 8 people to 6 billion people in 4000 years

being that much time traped on a boat can get you really horny! or maybe they developed cell like mitozis.

 

[Warbie]

ya ..but what I'm really interested in finding out is ....where do the chinese come from? and japanese, mongolian, african, aboriginal etc ...if there was a gene pool of just 8 people (presumably all of the same ethnic background) ..where did all these other groups come from? and different languages, culture art etc? did that all develop in less than 4000 years? ok language I understand cuz according to the bible, Nimrod built the tower of babel and pissed off God. God punished them by smiting them ...after the dust settled the inhabitants of babel learned they spoke different languages and couldnt understand each other ....what happened to them immediately after the tower incident? did they migrate to the 4 corners of the world? for example if one of the people standing near the tower of babel, and they're zapped by the mighty finger of god and all of a sudden their language switches over to say chinese ...did he then migrate to what is now china so that he could plant the seeds that will later lead to over 1 billion chinese the world round ...what if the guy who spoke english had an unfortunate accident on the way to england ...maybe that's why english wasnt in the mainstream till much later on...



so many stupid questions with even stupider answers

I'm more concerned about Moses flipping over all the females in his family and getting it on in order to repopulate the world.

//edit

Also, isn't incest forbidden in the Bible?

I thought so too. One might almost think some people have been very selective in their readings of the Bible, believing in what suits them and disregarding the rest. Who would have thunk it??

 

[Llama]

...h4x?
Moses must've used impulse 101 so he could refill himself constantly.
+ Used the "npc_create npc_womb_egg""

 

[CptStern]

it's not just incest ..it's a freakin whole colony of incestous people groping each other in an orgasmic orgy of biblical porportions that would make Sodom and gomorrah blush ......hey wait a minute, didnt god send the flood because people were too busy getting it on to worship him? if true then god is the ultimate hypocrite

god: "sex is a sin! ...unless I tell you to do it then it's ok ..you there! have sex with your sister, god commands thee"

 

[Warbie]

it's not just incest ..it's a freakin whole colony of incestous people groping each other in an orgasmic orgy of biblical porportions that would make Sodom and gomorrah blush

 

[Solaris]

Bill Bryson's book, A Short History of Nearly Everything, really ought to be mandated in schools. It's obviously not the FINAL source for any of these debates, but it's extremely informative and very entertaining.

I secound that! A fantastic book.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It was only supposed to be two of each animal! Moses, you idiot!

As for 6 billion people:

Here are the groundrules, as optimistic as I could imagine them being:

* The maximum human lifespan is over 120 years old
* All women who are between the ages of 13 and 55 have sex once every single week that they do not have their period or are currently pregnant, on average 90% of all potentially pregnant women are pregnant at any given time
* Their odds of successful fertilization per attempt are 1 in 3
* As soon as a girl turns 13, she begins producing children, no exceptions and she stays active producing children until the age of 55
* There is no infant mortality
* There are no deaths during childbirth
* Death rates in general are dramatically lower than in modern times

[...]

I've run this program a bunch of times and I know that it is relatively flawed, but wherever possible I have tried to err towards miraculous reproduction rates, not to simulate known population growth rates. After 180 years from the Flood, at approximately the time period of the Tower of Babel, the population of the Earth the app comes up with numbers in the following ballpark (these are from a specific run, random factors lead to slightly different numbers with each run through):

- Population of the Earth: 61,162

Hey, not bad, I thought when I ran it the first time. A decent seed population for Babel, and only about 500 years after the claimed Egyptian dates... Then, I decided to break it down and I found something fascinating... They're almost all children under the age of 12:

* Girls under 12: 25,989
* Boys under 12: 21,446
* Adults (over age 12 qualifies as an adult here): 13,727

Also, at the time I stopped my simulation at 180 years, there were 6,694 women over the age of 13 of whom 5,291 were currently pregnant. The rest were adult men.

http://talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may04.html

If we assume that Adam and Eve lived 4000 years ago and that the average population growth per year was 1/2 percent, how many people would we have had after, say, 2000 years? A quick calculation shows that we would have fewer than 1,000 people, worldwide, by the time the pyramids were built in 2,000 BC. That means that the entire population of the earth, under Morris' model, would have been required to quarry and move the stones used to build the pyramids. But if all these people were constructing the pyramids, then who was living in all the cities whose ruins we find scattered all over the world? Who was populating China, the Indus Valley and North America in 2,000 BC?

Finally, let us apply Morris's logic to the population of another species, say, houseflies. Houseflies have a generation time of just a few weeks, and each female is capable of laying several hundred eggs per generation. At that rate, the current population of houseflies would be reached in less than a decade, if we assume that every female fly lived for one month and produced a clutch of 100 eggs, and that each resulting female also produced a clutch of 100 eggs. Thus, given the current population of houseflies, it is impossible for the earth to be more than ten years old. (Of course, we are assuming here that every housefly reaches maturity and reproduces before it dies--the same assumption that Morris makes regarding the human population.)

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/populate.htm

 

[el Chi]

I thought so too. One might almost think some people have been very selective in their readings of the Bible, believing in what suits them and disregarding the rest. Who would have thunk it??

Surely the religious wouldn't stoop so low!?

 

[CptStern]

comments and links

shit the first link was just disturbing ...the second was pretty funny with the overworked jews building the pyramids, then globe hoping to china then back to the middle east and then off to north america ...talk about prolific ..I'm convinced the people of the past lead far more exciting lives then we do ...despite things like airplanes that make travel easy it must have been far more eficient to use their perferred mode of transportation: horses, wooden boats and chariots ...how else would they have built all those great monuments?

 

[el Chi]

It was written thousands of years ago.

When we had no other explanations for the way the world worked. Now we have others, based on evidence from the world around us.

 

[ríomhaire]

Second, the earth is probably a lot older the 4,000 years. I don't even know where that crap came from; the Bible makes no mention of the Earth's age.

The bible traces Jesus' ancestry back to Adam. From that we can estamate.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Written by god thousands of years ago.
I would have expected a character who is an infinitely persuasive author to have written a book that didn't date itself so quickly.

Yeah, I know: the bible wasn't written directly by god. It was supposedly transcribed by people receiving visions and hearing god's voice and what have you.

But, I think it's fairly obvious that visions are not a sign of divine intervention. They are, after all, experienced by abductees, contactees, SRA victims, NDEs, etc.

Writing a book based on alien contact is not a rare event either. Many (if not most) experiencers, conspiracy theorists and such write books based on what they believe. Contactees tend to see their experience as a sign they must spread spiritual healing and so on.

All indications to me are that the bible is just one such book, combined with myth and pop culture just as abductees see their experiences through the lens of flying saucer mythology.


Also, it's not logical to believe in microevolution and not Speciation. If microevolution occurs and is, by all accounts, cumulative how can macroevolution not occur?

Macroevolution is, by definition, the long-term accumulation of microevolutions.

And then, there's the other problem: since macroevolution occurs, then (unless there was a god-force present, which hasn't been evidenced) life on earth would have to trace backwards to an initial unicellular origin.

But let's just assume god did show up and spontaneously generate all the initial "kinds" (whatever those are).

Why?

If god created evolution, why did he rush the process by skipping however many million years of it?
Why didn't he:
A) Make all the animals as we know them today, and not bother with evolution at all?
or
B) Just start evolution at one cell like everyone says? He's eternal. He could wait.

The only reason I can think of is that he wanted to reduce the number of animals needed to fit on the ark.
But that just opens a whole new can of worms: the ark existed because of the flood. The flood existed because god wanted to kill all the people.
So:
Why couldn't god find a way to kill all the people without killing all the animals?
Why would an omniscient god create the first batch of humans, knowing full well they were too flawed and he'd have to kill them all?

Then there's the other problem:
Two of each animal? Only? That would cause massive inbreeding in every "kind".
And if, conservatively, the ark did contain enough land animals. They would only number a few thousand to a few million.
Whatever the number, the important thing to note is that however many animals were on the boat they were vastly outnumbered by sea creatures occupying the entire ocean (which would have been well over doubled in volume), who must have been thriving.
So since the two of each "kind" on the boat managed to become a millions upon billions of individuals today, logically there should be several thousand times as many of sea creatures.
Whales should have inherited the earth, especially since their earth-bound compadres had their populations totally decimated and their ecosystems destroyed (trees don't survive underwater).

Now, you could argue that it was god's protection that kept the ark's menagerie from dying out - but then why would you need an ark in the first place if god is his own life support system?
Hell, why didn't he just spontaneously generate a whole new ecosystem and save Noah a ton of trouble?