Creationists harrass Museums over Evolution exhibits

[CptStern]

from the "get a life you freakin wackos" file comes this story of creationists harrassing museums who have displays on evolution:


"Lenore Durkee, a retired biology professor, was volunteering as a docent at the Museum of the Earth here when she was confronted by a group of seven or eight people, creationists eager to challenge the museum exhibitions on evolution. "


"Similar efforts are under way or planned around the country as science museums and other institutions struggle to contend with challenges to the theory of evolution that they say are growing common and sometimes aggressive.

One company, called B.C. Tours "because we are biblically correct," even offers escorted visits to the Denver Museum of Science and Nature. Participants hear creationists' explanations for the exhibitions."

"It is no wonder that many biologists will simply refuse to debate creationists or I.D.ers," she said, using the abbreviation for intelligent design, a cousin of creationism. "It is as if they aren't listening."


source

 

[Murray_H]

Christ on a bike, they'll take it as truth from a book that has been rigourously edited over 2000 years yet if someone presents them with evidence that they can touch/see, it's not true.

 

[diluted]

You've forced me to pull out this pic, Stern.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9616/creationists4fy.jpg

 

[CptStern]

You've forced me to pull out this pic, Stern.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/9616/creationists4fy.jpg

lol! brilliant

 

[Ikerous]

"It is no wonder that many biologists will simply refuse to debate creationists or I.D.ers," she said, using the abbreviation for intelligent design, a cousin of creationism. "It is as if they aren't listening."

I've seen a video where an ID guy debated with a college professor and won
AFAIK (Which isnt much) he hasn't lost a debate yet on the subject
I think he's a former bio professor

 

[CptStern]

"Participants hear creationists' explanations for the exhibitions"


and here we have a fossil ..isnt it pretty? god made this lovely rock to look like an animal that had died a long long long time ago (during the time of Noah) ...we thank ye oh lord for making this wonderous rock ...and here we have a display about Darwin ..the church excommunicated him when he admitted he was in league with satan ...moving right along here's what to untrained eye looks like a dinosaur ..it's actually the remains of a sea serpent that died during the great flood and somehow grew legs and walked up to the badlands of alberta and lay there for hundreds of years ...this concludes our tour, please come back next week when we tour the planetarium, where we'll discuss more of god's wonderous miracles like the sun ..which is the center of the universe ...please exit to the left and leave the blinders with my assistant ..thanks for coming"

 

[CptStern]

I've seen a video where an ID guy debated with a college professor and won
AFAIK (Which isnt much) he hasn't lost a debate yet on the subject
I think he's a former bio professor

link? I find that hard to believe since ID isnt really based on anything concrete like facts


"Adherents of ID claim it stands on equal footing with the current scientific theories regarding the origin of life and the origin of the universe [1]. This claim has not been accepted by the scientific community and intelligent design does not constitute a research program within the science of biology. Despite ID sometimes being refered to popularly and in the media as "Intelligent Design Theory", it is not recognized as a scientific theory and has been categorized by the mainstream scientific community as creationist pseudoscience. The National Academy of Sciences has said that Intelligent Design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because their claims cannot be tested by experiment and propose no new hypotheses of their own "

 

[Ikerous]

link? I find that hard to believe since ID isnt really based on anything concrete like facts

I watched a sixteen hour long video seminar jam packed with the science behind Creationism.. theres definitely a lot of science behind it (Albeit misguided science I'm sure)

The debate video i watched was on VHS so i can't link to that

It was all by Kent Hovind though (http://www.drdino.com/)
And yes, I realize the fact that its him alone may make my entire post mute XD
(If you google his name you'll find like a million sites bashing him)

You can watch the seminars for free on his site though if you're at all interested in the science behind the ideas

(Oh yea, and I dont believe in ID or creationism... i'm just saying)

Most of the science used is just manipulation of the facts to propagate their ideas though

 

[DeusExMachina]

"Participants hear creationists' explanations for the exhibitions"


and here we have a fossil ..isnt it pretty? god made this lovely rock to look like an animal that had died a long long long time ago (during the time of Noah) ...we thank ye oh lord for making this wonderous rock ...and here we have a display about Darwin ..the church excommunicated him when he admitted he was in league with satan ...moving right along here's what to untrained eye looks like a dinosaur ..it's actually the remains of a sea serpent that died during the great flood and somehow grew legs and walked up to the badlands of alberta and lay there for hundreds of years ...this concludes our tour, please come back next week when we tour the planetarium, where we'll discuss more of god's wonderous miracles like the sun ..which is the center of the universe ...please exit to the left and leave the blinders with my assistant ..thanks for coming"

I love when you ask a Creationist or IDer about fossils, their usual reply is "The Devil put them there to trick us" or "God put them there to test us."

 

[Glirk Dient]

Funny how the Bible was written by man...

 

[Axyon]

I watched a sixteen hour long video seminar jam packed with the science behind Creationism.. theres definitely a lot of science behind it (Albeit misguided science I'm sure)

The debate video i watched was on VHS so i can't link to that

It was all by Kent Hovind though (http://www.drdino.com/)
And yes, I realize the fact that its him alone may make my entire post mute XD
(If you google his name you'll find like a million sites bashing him)

You can watch the seminars for free on his site though if you're at all interested in the science behind the ideas

(Oh yea, and I dont believe in ID or creationism... i'm just saying)

You pretty much nailed it with the 'mute post'-'Kent Hovind' thing. The man will argue black is ****ing white.

Oh, and link.

 

[The Monkey]

Only in America.

/me runs.

 

[Ikerous]

I love when you ask a Creationist or IDer about fossils, their usual reply is "The Devil put them there to trick us" or "God put them there to test us."

I've never heard a creationist say that...
Most creationists i know believe the same things about fossils as evolutionists
They just believe they originate later in history

Funny how the Bible was written by man...

Actually it was written by God, He just used man
(Or so a creationist would say..)

You pretty much nailed it with the 'mute post'-'Kent Hovind' thing. The man will argue black is ****ing white.

Oh, and link.

Haha, yea, i know this
But he still wins in debates with serious college bio professors
Which just amuses the hell of me

 

[CptStern]

I watched a sixteen hour long video seminar jam packed with the science behind Creationism.. theres definitely a lot of science behind it (Albeit misguided science I'm sure)

The debate video i watched was on VHS so i can't link to that

It was all by Kent Hovind though (http://www.drdino.com/)
And yes, I realize the fact that its him alone may make my entire post mute XD
(If you google his name you'll find like a million sites bashing him)

You can watch the seminars for free on his site though if you're at all interested in the science behind the ideas

(Oh yea, and I dont believe in ID or creationism... i'm just saying)

Most of the science used is just manipulation of the facts to propagate their ideas though

sorry but I just cant bring myself to read much further than this:



"Straight from the Institute for Creation Science Evangelism – would you like to learn the importance of Creation, the impossibility of the Big Bang, how to prove the Earth is not billions of years old, the truth about Cave Men and Dinosaurs, why Evolution is dangerous, lies in the Public School Textbooks, where Oil, Coal, and Natural Gas comes from, how we can see light from Stars billions of light years away, and much, much more?"

"You will also learn how to better be equipped to witness to an evolutionist. This course will better prepare you to “be ready always to give an answer”, and even earn a college credit in doing so."



utter hogwash

 

[DeusExMachina]

I've never heard a creationist say that...
Most creationists i know believe the same things about fossils as evolutionists
They just believe they originate later in history

But how does that work? The Bible never talks about dinosaurs and for a earth that's only been around for 6000 years, those fossils say at least 65 million years.

 

[CptStern]

""look" like they're 65 million years old ...how do you know god didnt intend for it to look that way?"


"for what purpose?"




"....................god works in mysterious ways"

 

[Ikerous]

But how does that work? The Bible never talks about dinosaurs and for a earth that's only been around for 6000 years, those fossils say at least 65 million years.

We think things are so old cuz of Carbon dating (Or other radioactive dating methods)

If the earth is actually 6 thousand years old, then most radioactive isotopes havent reached equilibrium yet, thus making radioactive dating useless
So the method only works if the earth is really old, and we only know its old cuz of that method (See the bad logic?)

Disclaimer: I realize why this is a bad arguement, i was just trying to explain how they think that way

And just personally, i have more respect for the ID guys going to a museum trying to learn than i do for some athiest who has never pondered religion in his life and sits at home watching south park content with not knowing anything, or someone who just assumes evolution is true w/o ever questioning it

 

[Llama]

Think of it this way...if their are so many morons on Earth, at least you get the satisfaction of being above the crowds of idiots :E

 

[Solaris]

And just personally, i have more respect for the ID guys going to a museum trying to learn than i do for some athiest who has never pondered religion in his life and sits at home watching south park content with not knowing anything, or someone who just assumes evolution is true w/o ever questioning it

I dont. Theres no evidence for religion, so for not even pondering something that has no evidence, earns my respect.

-Solaris out

 

[Murray_H]

"Genesis 7:2 states that Noah saved two of every representative "kind" of land animal on the ark. Noah would have taken young specimens, not huge, older creatures. Dinosaurs would have emerged from the ark to inhabit an entirely different world. Instead of a warm, mild climate worldwide, they would have found a harsh climate which soon settled into an ice age. If climatic hardships did not cause the dinosaur's extinction, man's tendency to destroy probably did."

So not only does the author of this article believe Noah actually did round up two of every animal, he got dinosaurs in there as well? Oh but wait, the author knows Noah's methods - he would have taken the young dinosaurs that don't need as much room (even though, at a guess, a baby Brachiosaurus would still be quite massive).

I suppose he used a dog he had handy to round up a couple of Allosaurus and coaxed some Iguanodons into the ark with a few beans.

And then the dinosaurs all died because of climatic hardship. Or man. So not only was man around at the time of the dinosaurs, he quite possibly killed them all.

 

[The Mullinator]

Think of it this way...if their are so many morons on Earth, at least you get the satisfaction of being above the crowds of idiots :E

You only get satisfaction though when you can prove someone wrong or convince them otherwise. Just knowing you are right doesn't give any satisfaction. Believe me, I know.

 

[DeusExMachina]

We think things are so old cuz of Carbon dating (Or other radioactive dating methods)

If the earth is actually 6 thousand years old, then most radioactive isotopes havent reached equilibrium yet, thus making radioactive dating useless
So the method only works if the earth is really old, and we only know its old cuz of that method (See the bad logic?)

Disclaimer: I realize why this is a bad arguement, i was just trying to explain how they think that way

Yeah I can see your point, the universe is an enigma.

And just personally, i have more respect for the ID guys going to a museum trying to learn than i do for some athiest who has never pondered religion in his life and sits at home watching south park content with not knowing anything, or someone who just assumes evolution is true w/o ever questioning it

I agree.

Though, if your an atheist/agnostic/freethinker who actually did ponder religion and did look into different theories, then you have my respect too <3.

 

[AzzMan]

Just saw a segment on the Daily Show, where creationists argue all animals were vegetarians before Adam ate the apple or w/e the hell god got pissed over. One guy was commenting on a Velocoraptor fossil, "what did they use those teeth and talons for? why to chase down and kill plants trying to run away of course" . in a sarcastic tone of course. Lewis Black ftw

 

[Ikerous]

stuff

It's not two of every animal, its two of every kind...
You also have to take into account that before the flood nothing was carniverous, so getting two baby dinosaurs on a boat wouldn't be all that challenging
Damn, azzman beat me to it

I dont. Theres no evidence for religion, so for not even pondering something that has no evidence, earns my respect.

Did you read any of my other posts....?

Though, if your an atheist/agnostic/freethinker who actually did ponder religion and did look into different theories, then you have my respect too <3.

I agrea whole heartedly.
I've always respected anyone that could defend their beliefs with good logic, even if i don't share their views

 

[CptStern]

We think things are so old cuz of Carbon dating (Or other radioactive dating methods)

If the earth is actually 6 thousand years old, then most radioactive isotopes havent reached equilibrium yet, thus making radioactive dating useless
So the method only works if the earth is really old, and we only know its old cuz of that method (See the bad logic?)

Disclaimer: I realize why this is a bad arguement, i was just trying to explain how they think that way

that's a horrible explanation

And just personally, i have more respect for the ID guys going to a museum trying to learn than i do for some athiest who has never pondered religion in his life and sits at home watching south park content with not knowing anything, or someone who just assumes evolution is true w/o ever questioning it

well this athiest grew up catholic but had an awakening when he was 11 ..I dont watch south park either

 

[Murray_H]

"There is a danger of becoming so indoctrinated by evolutionary thinking that we become closed to the creation alternative. As concerned parents, we need to be careful what our children are taught by making sure they are hearing all of the facts. By teaching them the evidence for creation and the fallacies of evolutionary explanations, they will be directed toward God instead of away from Him."

What a hypocritical nonce. He goes on about children not getting all the facts, which I was prepared to commend him for, as it seemed he wanted kids to get a balanced view to make up their own minds. That last sentence just shows how narrow-minded he is, even though he criticises turning away from a creation alternative.

 

[MrWhite]

Creationism, as much as I am a spiritual person, is utter crap. We all have the same "God", if you wish to call it that, just other's view it differen't ways, i mean hell, some don't even wish to view it at all. La la la, kitty meow.

Live and let live and rejoice because a winner is you!

 

[Ikerous]

that's a horrible explanation

well this athiest grew up catholic but had an awakening when he was 11 ..I dont watch south park either

Yea ^_^ I know, my explanations of stuff sucks, but you got the gist ;-)

And i know that you, if anyone, can defend their beliefs, thus earning my respect
(Not that its worth anything.. but still, i'm EXTREME, so you should be happy)

 

[Murray_H]

It's not two of every animal, its two of every kind...
You also have to take into account that before the flood nothing was carniverous, so getting two baby dinosaurs on a boat wouldn't be all that challenging

Please tell me you aren't being serious!

 

[ríomhaire]

I'm getting a good laugh from this site.

 

[Ikerous]

Please tell me you aren't being serious!

I was speaking from the point of view of a Christian...
They obviously believe in the Bible which says that
And theres no way to prove dinosaurs didn't eat meat...

I'm getting a good laugh from this site.

Isn't it awesome XD

 

[AzzMan]

Please tell me you aren't being serious!

supposedly before adam and eve everything was an herbivore. so by the time of the ark, they would have been predators. I mean it makes sense, when youre a large pit viper, you need those large fangs and venom to take down those quick moving tomato plants. /sarcasm

 

[Murray_H]

And anyway, if he took just two of every "kind", does that mean he took two insects, two reptiles, two plants?

How did Noah the taxonomist divide everything up? And after he took two of every kind, how do you presume we have such a diverse range of creatures today? Surely if only two of each kind was taken (e.g. birds), we would only have a sparrow and a robin today?

Perhaps they evolved into different......oh wait, evolution is rubbish!

 

[Ikerous]

How did Noah the taxonomist divide everything up? And after he took two of every kind, how do you presume we have such a diverse range of creatures today? Surely if only two of each kind was taken (e.g. birds), we would only have a sparrow and a robin today?

Perhaps they evolved into different......oh wait, evolution is rubbish!

Creationists believe in micro evolution...
They're missguided not retarded

 

[Murray_H]

I was speaking from the point of view of a Christian...
They obviously believe in the Bible which says that
And theres no way to prove dinosaurs didn't eat meat...

Isn't it awesome XD

Ah right fair enough.

Well I think if you can take the leap of faith that there a man was crucified and walked the Earth again 3 days later, you can take the leap of faith that if a tiger has sharp teeth and claws and eats meat today, a dinosaur with sharp teeth and claws would probably ate meat too

Whoops, sorry mis-read what you wrote, I still mean what I said but I realise it doesn't apply the text I put in bold

 

[Solaris]

^Incorrect, Try again.


/Solaris

 

[Ikerous]

Either that or God (Being omnipotent and all) knew they (Sharp teeth and claws) would come in handy pretty soon (eg after the flood when they became carniverous) and decided to start them off with it

 

[DeusExMachina]

Creationism, as much as I am a spiritual person, is utter crap. We all have the same "God", if you wish to call it that, just other's view it differen't ways, i mean hell, some don't even wish to view it at all. La la la, kitty meow.

Live and let live and rejoice because a winner is you!

You a pantheist or a universalist?

 

[Murray_H]

^Incorrect, Try again.


/Solaris

That was useful, care to expand on what was incorrect so I may become enlightened?

So this is the story (realise the last time I was educated religiously was about 4 years ago, and I didn't care/pay attention then )

Noah is told there is going to be a massive flood
Noah is told to build and ark and select two of every "kind" of animal (although what specifies as a kind?)
Noah builds said ark, world experiences said flood
Noah releases animals
Through micro-evolution, the diversity we experience today stemmed from the two of every creature Noah took on the ark

What sort of time frames do we have between Noah getting told about the flood and the flood occuring and the time between Noah releasing the animals and our time today?

 

[CptStern]

Either that or God (Being omnipotent and all) knew they (Sharp teeth and claws) would come in handy pretty soon (eg after the flood when they became carniverous) and decided to start them off with it

yet for some strange reason they only ate other dinasaurs, quickly died off became fossilised over night and for some strange reason appear to be millions of years old ..predating things like the flood (yes geological records prove their was a massive flood in what was the civilized world back then ...but then again with a limited knowledge of the world around them citizens of new orleans could rightfully claim that katarine was the "great flood")

not too mention that dust settled from asteroid strikes pre-date the flood, are also found in the geological strata

oh and lastly ..2 of the same species can NOT propagate an entire species.. birth defects would surely render the second generation sterile