Cubix - New HL2DM Map Release

[Pi Mu Rho]

seriously...just caus some bozo called pie-mud-rope whos proud of knowing his ABC's needs to feel confident by insulting, id like to point out that this map is far more creative than any of the maps Ive seen on this site. You people apparently feel the need to stick exactly to the standard recipe for a generic map. If that happened everywhere, we'd still be under the British flag and the pope would still be the most powerful idiot on earth. Not to mention, no lightbulb, no TV... and definately no HL2.

This map actually has interactivity, and its not a remake of some other thing, its original. I'm sure you get really proud when you make a health charger, but wed rather not stick to nothing but static, pointless objects sitting in the map.

Dr. Simons

oh and no disagreeing with me....caus if you do, youll be wrong

Wow, your attempt at an insult based on my name was just.....well, juvenile, stupid and puerile.

Anyway, for as much as you claim innovation with that map, how about making one that works at a reasonable framerate, uses more than a few textures, and doesn't play like a long-dead sloth in a tar pit?

PS - TV was invented by a Scot...

 

[.syL]

u are all a bunch of panty liners.... quit bitching and moaning and just keep the crap in ur own hole unless it smells like roses....comprende?

Does that refer to the map or to all the comments, cause it sure fits both.


Anyhow, maybe I'm missing something and that whole doc web site and the maps are one giant spoof. That would at least make sense.

 

[simons_dc]

culture in a box. now mr alphabet, i know your a moderator and all but i dont beleive youve set an apropriate tone here, and im sure that if you consideired the purpose of games, youd realize that maybe half life here just doesnt cut the mustard. if we wanted a little map with little hallways that go right where they want you to go, as linear as a CO2 molecule, we'd go right ahead and take a dump on the keyboard. heck we could even get a newspaper to read. but what gaming needs is freedom. if your gonna bother to code in an exact replica of physics, giving a darn good level of creative freedom to the player, why not comprehend the thought of a large, open ended map that isnt separated solely for the purpose of accomidating the weaker comps. I mean, they didnt put brail on the decals so blind people could play.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Again, missing the point. You didn't make a map that sets out to stretch the capabilities of people's computers. It's entirely possible to have that map be a reasonable file size, and run at a reasonable frame rate. Someone lacks either the skills or desire to do that.

Once again, I shall point out that if you advertise your maps as being something special, then they'd better be. You post your map publicly, and you get feedback. If you don't like it, don't post it.

 

[simons_dc]

well ok
but assuming you people ( not just superman here ) would be gracious enough to honor us with your sacred knowlege of mapping, what makes a good map? what is your favorite style? what styles are there? I'm not talking about map appearance, im talking about map structure, layout, and interactivity ( which is as lacking from any of the maps ive seen as any good analogy could describe )

 

[Jackathan]

Just wondering... did a mod change his sig or something? If so thats pretty lame :\

 

[ShinRa]

simmons apparently hasnt played dm_watergate, dm_powersurge, or the other 10 maps that are immense amounts of fun to play. i am a very open minded person when it comes to maps. i pretty much have fun on anything u throw at me. this, was just complete garbage. i had no fun at all on this piece of crap. i think id have more fun learning how to make a box and putting a pistol in it. so stop commending your "amazing work" because it sucks.

 

[simons_dc]

no fun at all? you must be one of those people who sits at home watching the tele, and requires massive external influence to get those neurons firing, eh? I supose your one of those chappys who thinks "crossfire" is really amazing. Wow, they made a white flash happen when you press a button. Original only because others were too stupid to think of it themselves, and instead of going on to make other maps that actually do more than determine where you can and cant go, they just remade it. How clever, reminds me of the president.

 

[ComradeBadger]

You wanted it, you got it.


Style: style is very much up to the mapper's discretion, there are almost infinate variations. 3 or 4 textures per map is not a style

Map structure: there should always be distinguishing features, so you always have a sense of place. As far I'm concerned, a map can be structured as the mapper pleases: however, in order to be considered good by me, a map must include vertical action, areas of medium range combat, areas where you have no choice but to fight up close, and areas where you're at an advantage, areas where in order to be at an avantage you have to have knowledge of your surroundings.

So a varied enviroment? Indeed, but you shouldn't have to think 'Ahh this bit's the close combat stuff' it should all have a sense of place

Interactivity: If by interactivity you mean random traps n stuff. No, gtfo. Takes a degree of skill out of the game. I don't want to be BHing along with 100/100 and suddenly be spinning out of the world due to the fact I didn't spot a slightly misaligned texture that donated a trap's exsistance. Take crossfire for an example of traps done right. Everyone knows that you'd need to get to the bunker. Make it obvious what's going on if you must do traps. I wasn't a fan of crossfire except as an Arena map, but that's just me.



I have no objections fundamentally with the map itself, it's a nice enough idea: cubes in the clouds.. it's different, I'll give it that. However:

It's not playable at an acceptable framerate You can say it's designed for those of us with higher-end machines, but what you've accomplished could have been done in HL1, so I wouldn't say that it's the level design itself.

Anyway, I think I've rambled enough, a lot of my points have been better made by others.

Goodnight.

 

[simons_dc]

Ok.....but by interactivity i mean even simple things like lifts that you can activate, or having a bridge slide out. The most 'interactive' part of this map is the rotating laser, which can be controlled. Although valve may have done a bad job programming for this kind of thing, hence the lag and terrible res of the monitor, its the kind of creativity i'd like to see more of in maps

and also this isnt even my map, its gordons, so dont expect any of my work to be too similar to it

 

[Pro[pH]et]

I can't believe he released a 33mb map.

Can you imagine how log it would take to download that thing in game?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

well ok
but assuming you people ( not just superman here ) would be gracious enough to honor us with your sacred knowlege of mapping, what makes a good map?

How about one with:
-More than three textures
-Good Lighting
-More than 30 FPS
-Layout
-A sense of scale
...and that's just for starters.

Compare your map: (sorry 'bout big files, but the point needs to be made)

With this one: (dm_facility by Jonny Phive)

Or this one: (dm_drift by Dux)

Notice how they use many different textures, a variety of geometry, more than one light source and details to make their maps look good, and almost real?
And both those maps aren't even finished yet.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I might not get on with dux but he's a bloody good mapper. I can't wait to see what else he comes up with.

DoctorGordon, you should be ashamed when you see the work of Dux, Pi and the others. Really, take the advice of everyone and quit making your maps out to be the greatest thing ever, cause they most certainly are not.

 

[simons_dc]

yeah i do think valve should lose the crossbow. it sucks for sniping, and does rediculous amounts of damage. if they had made the shotgun as powerful, then that could be considered a valuable weapon too.

anyhow, (further defense of this even though you are determined to hate it) all those other lovely maps are designed to replicate the HL2 atmosphere, which is why you can put all the models, textures, and structure styles to perfect use. What we do is make utterly different maps, maps that would have all custom textures if it was worth the trouble of installing them just for one map, but that we compromise as best as we can with the resources provided by valve.

 

[Pro[pH]et]

maps that would have all custom textures if it was worth the trouble of installing them

This is what sets other maps apart.

 

[blinking halo]

How can you possibly be blaming valve for your shortcomings? the Source engine is one of the best, most efficient, easiest to use engines ever made. The half life 2 deathmatch gameplay was tested over and over and the crossbow works fine. I dont want to seem mean, but this map is terrible. Its basically a MASSIVE chunk of geometry hanging in a skybox with weapons and traps spread around. I think especially for beginning mappers (like myself i will gladly admit) it is far better to start on small dm maps designed for just a few players. I wouldnt be nearly this critical if the guy who posted this didnt have an insanely big ego. "this is a must have hl2 dm map" wtf? you simply cannot say this. Allow the community to decide how good the map is. And i think its apparent that this map is NOT 'the next big thing' let alone "a must have".

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Trust me simons, it's not the crossbow's fault that your map has no cover.
And the shotgun doesn't suck. It's excellent in close quarters. However, your map is utterly devoid of close quarters.

You can't just make a map and hope that the weapons will adjust themselves to conform to it. You need to base your map around the weapons. If the shotgun sucks, it's the maps' fault. If the crossbow is too good, same deal.

And HL2 has plenty of different textures of metal and concrete.
If you're going to texture a featureless block, you could make it any material you'd like without a single new texture.
But it'll still be a featureless block.

 

[DoctorGordon]

Understand that the map is an "arena" style map (wide-open), not a matrix of halls and rooms. There’s not a bunch of cover and misc objects scattered around, because what use would those be on a factory…realistically?

Early on I created a large set of custom textures to use for this map, but sadly; I found out you couldn’t imbed them in the bsp. It was much more elegant and lively at that time….with brushed steel and glistering trim.

I would have eventually used variation in textures, but there was only 1 acceptable metal panel texture. Plus, say this was real, who would build a factory and use a bunch of different-looking panels?

And, much detail had to be cut so the game wouldn’t lock up during load with the incredible amount of brushes.

For the record, the ratings at our site are how happy we are with the map at the time of completion…they are not a public rating, they are not what we want the community to think, they are simple what we personally thought of the map. Its like “oh wow, these guys think this map is their best, interesting, maybe I’ll agree with them”

“The most fun and creative maps ever created” is our flag which we ‘ride’ under. We will continue trying to fulfill that principle as best we can…it’s not a promise, it’s our motto. It’s up to you to decide if it’s true or not with each map.

Lets move onto the description. Like any typical endorsement, the description is written with sugar coating…outlining only the positive (you don’t exactly tell the truth during a promotion, but you don’t exactly lie…as it has potential to be perfectly valid). “Hey you’re gonna love our selection” is an example. Well, what if you don’t love ‘their’ selection? Did they lie? Not exactly. Its relative, its possible someone could like it.

People may get angry when the product doesn’t live up to the promotion….which has apparently happened in my case here. But…hey, you win a couple, you lose a couple. I’ve gotten 9-10 ratings from people in-game (atleast 30 people) and at a few various sites. In fact, this, amazingly, is the first negative feedback we’ve gotten. Either you guys have different tastes, or something said modified your perception of the map before you had a chance to play.

“this mammoth deathmatch map is essential to have for any serious HL2dm player.”

I figured this, hey, you’re either gonna like the map or your not gonna like it. If you don’t like it, you’re out of the picture…unimportant since you wont be playing the map, thereby not bestowing us with any significance. If you do like it, well…the description was correct. I tried to keep the arrogance in the description where it belongs, rather than have it exist as “shameless self-promotion”…unfortunately; no one recognized the description as monotonous text, hence, this place turned into satan’s fiery burrow, rather a place of constructive criticism and respects.

Also, aside from my flawed post, Pi Mu Rho is in-part responsible for triggering these proceedings. I have watched him step into many threads and massacre the mapper younglings [including myself with past maps, although I am no newbie to mapping]. He comes across as extremely arrogant, aggressive, and intentionally conflicting. I’m sure he will undoubtedly deny, but….I suggest varying your writing style slightly to avoid this perception. Regardless…we’re both mappers, we enjoy construction and depicting visualizations….no need to be hostile.

As my colleague stated, its really easy to create maps that fit into the hl2 atmosphere, but going one step out of that realm (in all aspects)…takes skillfulness.

Dr. Simons and myself will continue making maps…we will try to be creative as possible while remaining within the limits of the engine and game design. Each map will be essentially better than the last, as we become more knowledgeable and versatile.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I honestly would not have guessed this map was supposed to be a factory if you hadn't just said that it was.

What obstacles could exist in a factory?
Some machinery, perhaps? A computer console? A container?
Whatever materials the factory is producing? A wall?

Hell, how about including a factory in your factory?

I'm trying to be nice here, but I'm positive that it is possible to make a "factory in the sky" map that looks and plays well with multiple textures, curved lines and a reasonable size.
But you can't say you're stepping into a higher plane of level design with a map that looks worse than most of those in HL1.

 

[simons_dc]

hmm. aside from the simplicity and lack of optimisation, im sure this map would receive no BS from another, less narrow-scoped gaming community like unreal tournament (but no, we wont be switching to that as you may want to suggest, because the UT editors are built like all high-end software - to waste time with endless menus and 3d meshes, solids, and whatever, precicely that which is avoided in Hammer. Now i wont tell you to like this map, or even explain why i like it, but you guys ought to explore more types of maps. it doesnt have to be small, enclosed and occluded to be fun.

 

[Yak_Fighter]

No they don't, but usually entertaining maps run above 10 FPS

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Also, aside from my flawed post, Pi Mu Rho is in-part responsible for triggering these proceedings. I have watched him step into many threads and massacre the mapper younglings [including myself with past maps, although I am no newbie to mapping]. He comes across as extremely arrogant, aggressive, and intentionally conflicting. I’m sure he will undoubtedly deny, but….I suggest varying your writing style slightly to avoid this perception. Regardless…we’re both mappers, we enjoy construction and depicting visualizations….no need to be hostile.

Ha.
Please provide examples of where I "step into many threads and massacre the mapper younglings". In fact, I've given constructive criticism of your previous maps or said nothing at all. Please don't try to make "facts" up.
Indeed, if you look at my first comment in this very thread, I didn't make a single criticism of your map, just the way in which you presented it. My map critique followed your less than savoury reply.

Also, you can't complain about someone else being "arrogant", and if you don't like my writing style, don't read it.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

it doesnt have to be small, enclosed and occluded to be fun.

Apparently I'm living in some sort of backwards world, because yes, a map does need to be all those things.
Since 'small' in this case means 'not the size of Easter Island,'
'enclosed' means 'less than seven consecutive football fields of blank space'
and 'occluded' means 'playable'.

Well, I tried to talk you out of it, but I guess there'll continue to be maps where any angle other than 90 degrees is apparently shot on sight.
I just hope I don't download one.

 

[bi0_gauss]

i personally think shitty maps should be flamed...dont release a shitty one next time..

but tbh this map takes the cake as the worst map i've seen yet..
hell at least the killbox maps run >15 fps
the guns have certain advantages to them..learn these then make a map based around that..
stop making these 'arena' style crap maps..as thats all you have done so far..

 

[Jimbro727]

Okay.. the other day I came across this thread and I thought "hey a new map.. sounds cool.. let me take a look" I saw the screenies.. looked at one quickly.. seemed interesting.. then I went through the posts a bit, trying to figure out what was happening on 5 pages of posts.. and I saw everyone flaming your map and your "press releases." I thought to myself, "that's mean.. he's just trying to make a map" and I closed the browser and left.

.. I just went back to this thread today, and read the posts.. and I have to say man.. the map sucks.. i'm not gonna lie... there is one thing that I hate in this world, and it's people who know a little about something and think they are a guru and go around telling everyone how what they do is the best.. and then when people who actually are gurus, and really do know what they are talking about call them on it.. they respond with lame attempts at name calling and dumb excuses.. grasping at straws by trying to blame the trade instead of themselves...

this is what you have done.. you have created a map that stinks.. and said it was awesome.. so people think "hey.. awesome, a great map.." then they load it up and are greated by a horrible map.. that just dissapoints people...

There are two things that will make me DISPISE a map:
1. They are huge and take a long time to download.. especially when your friend tells you to join his server and you're all excited about playing HL2DM for hours on end, only to find that you have to download some map.. so you let half-life download.. and it takes forever.. then you get in the game only to find out the following two things: the map sucks, and your friend just realized this, so he's changing it to one that doesn't :/

2. Maps that only run well on people with sick graphics cards.. I have a decent card.. I can play fine at 1024x768.. and it looks far better than HL1, and I'm happy... but i mean.. from what I've heard, the fps on this map sucks.. and we all know what happens when you play a map that runs horribly right from the start, and throw a few people in a DM match.. it's unplayable.. there's NOTHING THAT I HATE MORE THAN LAG lol...

so seriously.. i'm a newb when it comes to mapping.. i'm just starting.. but over 30mb for a map.. okay.. it's the best map ever.. so it's worth it.. even I'd buy that.. but then it's not.. and it's not unique.. there is NOTHING unique about a few textures slapped on some squares... and your "traps" sound rediculous..

and don't go blaming your sad mapping skills on the engine or on the fact that everyone else does the same thing.. HL2 is a game.. and it has a style.. that style is not something that would look good if it were on my GameBoy.. HL2 is supposed to create life-like worlds.. where you can interact, almost as if you are actually in the game.. your world doesn't accomplish any of this.. maybe your map is good.. but not for this game.. and not for the average computer.. so i take that back.. your map is not good.. i'm sorry.. i have to break it to u

and it's horrible how you say how good all of your maps are and how you rate them.. meanwhile they are crap.. so.. seriously.. i mean i think the community has spoken..we are not "picking" on you.. we are just criticizing your work.. but you keep defending it.. and from the get-go you were overly conceited about your work.. there's no need for that.. I know people have said this already, but I feel that I must say it again: if you had just said "here's my map, it's a work in progress.. I know it's different, but I'd like some suggestions" or something like that.. then you might have gotten good feedback that would point these things out in a nice way, but instead you start out saying how your map is the best... when it's not.. and it's not only bad for the community in general, but it's a slap in the face to people who actually do develope awesome maps..

so that's just my opinion on this whole thing.. now I'm going to go actually download your map and play it for myself..

.. I'll get back to you when it's done.. if I'm not playing HL3 by then

--jimbro

PS I happen to like crossfire.. and you're just sad that you didn't come up with that idea.. it's great because it's simple, and it keeps campers on their feet.. because if someone presses that button, everyone's gotta make it to the bunker.. or they die.. and then that creates battle.. people get to attempt to hold the bunker.. then there's fighting within the bunker.. those last minute kills.. sending the people spawning into the flash ahah.. i mean it just presents a whole new spin on that same great HL2 theme.. now that's unique.

 

[simons_dc]

well if you insist on flaming something, bring on the fire...but im not the witch. also, meco godzila or whatever id really like to know how games like farcry, GTA, and unreal are successful if you speak with any truth. oh this is a half life site? they are all games...they all use a mouse and keyboard, they arent from different realities or for different kinds of people. no doubt this map is a little too big and open and laggy, but every dang map ive seen is as open as a hollowed out spagheti noodle, and as sealed up as a bank vault. look at reality, it tends to be more real than tradition as far as games go.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

well im not gonna get into what a good map needs.. but damn.. 35MB for a map?!?!? NO THANKS!.

 

[NB.]

because the UT editors are built like all high-end software - to waste time with endless menus and 3d meshes, solids, and whatever, precicely that which is avoided in Hammer.

Wow, you think working with Unreal is like using 'high end software' ?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

well if you insist on flaming something, bring on the fire...but im not the witch. also, meco godzila or whatever id really like to know how games like farcry, GTA, and unreal are successful if you speak with any truth. oh this is a half life site? they are all games...they all use a mouse and keyboard, they arent from different realities or for different kinds of people. no doubt this map is a little too big and open and laggy, but every dang map ive seen is as open as a hollowed out spagheti noodle, and as sealed up as a bank vault. look at reality, it tends to be more real than tradition as far as games go.

First of all, that's the most original spelling of my name so far.

Second, just because you can play two games with a keyboard, it doesn't make their gameplay mechanics suddenly interchangeable without consequence.
I shouldn't have to tell you that different games have different gameplay mechanics. It's basic.
You might have made the best Farcry map ever, but it sucks in Half-life. You might have made the best GTA map ever, but it sucks in Half-life.
GTA is designed to have dozens of cars, and Farcry is designed to have foliage. Your map has neither.
GTA and Farcry look good. Your map does not.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

This is a map with Doom 1's visual sophistication, the wide open spaces of Madden NFL and the weapons of Half-Life 2 along with Pong's level of physics integration.
It's a horrible Frankenstien's monster of of a map where everything that makes HL2 DM work has been cut out in the name of some obtuse 'originality.'

You've got HL2 without the physics. You've got weapons designed for close-quarters in a map where they cannot be used. You've got absolutely no detail whatsoever, and gameplay that is defined more by what you can't do than what you can.

I can be original too. I'll take lockdown and remove all the boxes, barrels, toilets, sinks, desks, cabinets, fences, stairs, carts, benches, crates, radiators, walls, hallways, ceilings, rooms, lighting, bars, windows, textures, sound effects and ladders.
Then make it twenty times larger, add random cubes and call it dm_cubix!

Oy.

 

[Dasparov]

Ahahahahahahahahahahah

 

[.syL]

People may get angry when the product doesn’t live up to the promotion….which has apparently happened in my case here. But…hey, you win a couple, you lose a couple. I’ve gotten 9-10 ratings from people in-game (atleast 30 people) and at a few various sites. In fact, this, amazingly, is the first negative feedback we’ve gotten. Either you guys have different tastes, or something said modified your perception of the map before you had a chance to play.

Please, provide a link to a review that gives your maps a good rating. I'm dying to read those.

I figured this, hey, you’re either gonna like the map or your not gonna like it. If you don’t like it, you’re out of the picture…unimportant since you wont be playing the map, thereby not bestowing us with any significance. If you do like it, well…the description was correct.

Wrong...the vast majority of all maps are mediocre. A small amount is really bad and an even smaller amount is excellent.

 

[keved]

I would have eventually used variation in textures, but there was only 1 acceptable metal panel texture. Plus, say this was real, who would build a factory and use a bunch of different-looking panels?

Before going into the games industry I used to work at an architectural practice. No local government authority would allow a new factory/warehouse/etc to be built unless an effort had been made to make it look moderately attractive. You're making excuses for the poor visuals in your level.

And you reckon there is only 1 acceptable industrial-looking texture in the entire HL2 texture set? Do you have a filter on in your texture browser or something?!?

And, much detail had to be cut so the game wouldn’t lock up during load with the incredible amount of brushes.

Well, why not reduce the size of the level?! There's no need for it to be so big - you've just repeated identical looking areas over and over again in which the type of gameplay does not change.

You're still giving us sugar-coated press releases too..."much detail had to be cut"..."It was much more elegant and lively at that time"..."with brushed steel and glistering trim". So, it actually looked amazing at one point, but rather than reducing the size of the level you decided to remove any trace whatsoever of visual quality?

Lets move onto the description. Like any typical endorsement, the description is written with sugar coating…outlining only the positive (you don’t exactly tell the truth during a promotion, but you don’t exactly lie…as it has potential to be perfectly valid). “Hey you’re gonna love our selection” is an example. Well, what if you don’t love ‘their’ selection? Did they lie? Not exactly. Its relative, its possible someone could like it.

People may get angry when the product doesn’t live up to the promotion….which has apparently happened in my case here. But…hey, you win a couple, you lose a couple. I’ve gotten 9-10 ratings from people in-game (atleast 30 people) and at a few various sites. In fact, this, amazingly, is the first negative feedback we’ve gotten. Either you guys have different tastes, or something said modified your perception of the map before you had a chance to play.

Giving a sugar-coated press release may fly when you're trying to promote your level to those new to the Halflife 'Universe', but you're posting to a forum filled with fellow level creators, many of whom have been around the block and have plenty of experience. So, as has transpired during the course of this thread, your press releases have fallen flat on their face.

As my colleague stated, its really easy to create maps that fit into the hl2 atmosphere, but going one step out of that realm (in all aspects)…takes skillfulness.

Total garbage. If it's so easy "to create maps that fit into the hl2 atmosphere", why don't you create a HL2 expansion pack...something like Opposing Force or Blueshift for HL1? I'm sure Valve would be interested in releasing it and you'd earn sacks of cash.

 

[Pro[pH]et]

well if you insist on flaming something

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a true flame war.

If I have time later today I will post a true flame. (I will use * to keep it clean enough)