Cut HL2 Content

RustyValve

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This is my first post so be nice;)

Anyway am playing HL2 for the million'th time and have just noticed that on "A Red Letter Day" just after you put on the Hazard suit. The music changes and Kliner says "Oh Dear" with Barney saying "We Don't Have Time For This". They then rush to the teleport with no real reason for it to be so rushed.

Anybody else noticed this???

I remember old videos with a strider busting through the wall and can't help think that this was a scene that has seen the sissors!

Not really that important but am bored waiting for EP2.
 
...You play through HL2 for the millionth time and you just noticed this?

Yes, that really, really, really old video had content no longer in the game.
 
quite a lot of the content from the early videos was cut or heavily reworked.
 
Indeed. Although it was awesome to see at the time, that particular scene really wouldn't work any more.
 
Wish there was a "Half-life 2: Director's Cut" of some sort, basically an official version of the Missing Information mod.
 
Half-life 2: Here's what we cut because it totally sucked.

Oh yeah, I'd want to play that allright.
 
the reason it is "rushed" is because you can hear the citadel's alarm going off, metro cops and scanners are looking for Gordon
 
You saw them not discuss the Hazard Suit in the room and just run out of there, what is the interesting thing about this room you are discussing
 
That video is quite amusing in retrospect. Gordon shooting at a strider with an SMG. Hee.
 
it is all in the missing info mod. for a moment, i thought this thread was of illegal beta content..hehe
 
the reason it is "rushed" is because you can hear the citadel's alarm going off, metro cops and scanners are looking for Gordon

Only he successfully got this point of question of this thread.

If you turn the sound louder, you can hear the alarm from citadel goes off, which is the reason Kleiner drops his paper note.
 
Yeah I was wondering why everyone ws talking about that, guess they didn't understand the question.
 
Half-life 2: Here's what we cut because it totally sucked.

Oh yeah, I'd want to play that allright.

A lot of that content had potential. It's very assinine to say that because it was cut, it sucked.
Too much content was cut in my opinion; some deserved to be cut, some should've been given a chance, and some could only work in very specific conditions.

Crossbow and sniper rifle, now there's a valid reason at least; one makes the other redundant, therefore only one should really be included.

But what about, say the Hydra? Cut? Zero-fun to play against?
Would it really have been that difficult to make Hydra impalment attempts survivable for Gordon (considering he has the HEV suit) albeit highly damaging? Or maybe give the Hydra some different attacks, a whip-like motion that slams the player from the side etc.
Rather than just go "oh, that's no fun, it kills you when it impales you, *snip snip* it's cut."
I would've liked to have spent a small portion of that (I must admit, somewhat tedious) sewer level(s) running away from a chasing hydra tentacle.

Several of the weapons cut could've worked if they were confined to certain chapters of the game. Of course, it would have been stupid if say the crowbar and the Ice Axe could have been obtained by the player at the same time - but in that case, some kind of weapon-confiscation crescendo (like the Citadel weapon stripper, or Half-Life 1's marine ambush) placed halfway in the game would've solved problems like these.

There were just so many weapons cut that the diversity could've very evenly been cut in two for each half of the game.
Maybe at one point the player gets captured after Borealis, so he loses the Ice Axe, Extinguisher (should not have been removed, would've been the best puzzle weapon 2nd to the gravity gun) Mp5K, Flaregun, Molotov, Tau cannon, crossbow, SLAM... then the player proceeds to continue the second 'half' of the story encountering new locations with new weapons... OICW, Sniper rifle, hopwire grenades, MP7, Incendiary Rifle, crowbar or stun baton, strider gun etc.

Given the overwhelming complexity of the original storyline intended for Half-Life 2, it's not impossible that some kind of scenario like this could have been worked into the game.

Like someone once so eloquently summarised, it feels like there's a whole other game out there to be played.
And what sucks is that all that lost stuff may never be officially released or sanctioned.
 
I have to admit I was dissapointed with the Hydra getting cut but they must have been having big problems getting it to work and keep the quality standard Valve are known for.

I am sure EP2 will make us forget any memories of the Hydra!!!
 
A lot of that content had potential. It's very assinine to say that because it was cut, it sucked.
Too much content was cut in my opinion
The thing is - it's only Valve's opinion that counts. Their game, their decisions. None of us have any idea of the thought processes behind the parts that were cut. If it hadn't been for the "leak", you wouldn't even know about most of the cut content. During development of any game, lots of stuff gets cut/changed. The developers decide to do it because they feel it's for the greater good of the game. In 99.9% of cases, I'm willing to trust their opinion over Random Internet Person.

But what about, say the Hydra? Cut? Zero-fun to play against?
Would it really have been that difficult to make Hydra impalment attempts survivable for Gordon (considering he has the HEV suit) albeit highly damaging? Or maybe give the Hydra some different attacks, a whip-like motion that slams the player from the side etc.
Rather than just go "oh, that's no fun, it kills you when it impales you, *snip snip* it's cut."
I would've liked to have spent a small portion of that (I must admit, somewhat tedious) sewer level(s) running away from a chasing hydra tentacle.
The hydra was removed because they couldn't get it to work to their satisfaction. When the amount of work required to develop something overtakes the return of completing it, it's time for the cut.

Several of the weapons cut could've worked if they were confined to certain chapters of the game. Of course, it would have been stupid if say the crowbar and the Ice Axe could have been obtained by the player at the same time - but in that case, some kind of weapon-confiscation crescendo (like the Citadel weapon stripper, or Half-Life 1's marine ambush) placed halfway in the game would've solved problems like these.

There were just so many weapons cut that the diversity could've very evenly been cut in two for each half of the game.
Maybe at one point the player gets captured after Borealis, so he loses the Ice Axe, Extinguisher (should not have been removed, would've been the best puzzle weapon 2nd to the gravity gun) Mp5K, Flaregun, Molotov, Tau cannon, crossbow, SLAM... then the player proceeds to continue the second 'half' of the story encountering new locations with new weapons... OICW, Sniper rifle, hopwire grenades, MP7, Incendiary Rifle, crowbar or stun baton, strider gun etc.

Given the overwhelming complexity of the original storyline intended for Half-Life 2, it's not impossible that some kind of scenario like this could have been worked into the game.

Like someone once so eloquently summarised, it feels like there's a whole other game out there to be played.
And what sucks is that all that lost stuff may never be officially released or sanctioned.

As is the case with pretty much every game ever made. Like I said - in most cases, you never get to find out what was cut.
 
Content that had potential? Had it had potential it'd still be here, right now, for us to play. You have only seen snippets of what was there, what there was going to be; you have never experienced what was cut and you are therefore in no position to say that too much was cut. The main problem with what was cut, aside from far too many weapons and enemies is the original storyline. The original storyline was far too long, far too generic (post-apocalyptic wastelands...yawn), and spent little or no time developing the characters they had. In short, the original plans for Half-life were absolutely ridiculous I would never even consider attempting such a game.

The shorter something is, the more you can tune and adjust the quality. You can control and streamline the gameplay. This was not possible in something so massive. You have to consider the fact that Valve did not cut these things to laugh at you, the player. They were cut because they didn't work, or they hampered the pace of the game. Quality>Quantity. The only reason you know about it, as Pi said, is because it was leaked (bearing in mind at the time of the leak all this had been scrapped anyway).

Whilst what you are suggesting with weapons (limiting) could infact work, it still stands that there'd be far, far too many. The game as it is now is so much better. It's got a better storyline (superior pacing, characters and content), the weapons and enemies are sufficient and the gameplay, given the restricted nature of the game, is probably alot better for it.
 
I have to disagree. Cut content has extreme potential and style, but as pointed out, doesn't really fit within Half-Life 2.

However, it makes excellent material for any addon packs or expansions showing it from a different angle.

Plus, beta stuff is usually awesome to marvel at :)
 
Yeah, we usually do not get to see what was cut. But we did in this case, and so a lot of people got the chance to see just how much is cut from a game, and just how much was cut from this one.
And seeing as that is so, would it not have made sense for Valve to heed some of the unanimous cries, opinions and wants regarding the content seen after/from the leak?

I'm not saying, let's give to the people addressing Gabe directly saying "Giev us hydra kthx!1"
I'm saying, the leak happened, so why not have Valve make the best of it? And that would be hearing whatever unanimous praises/criticisms came from the audience, therefore helping to shape the final game appropriately to mass opinions. The same opinions that come from those who like Half-Life and who would eventually buy the complete game of HL2.

For example if everyone completely liked content X, Valve could/would make a concerted effort to ensure content X was included in the final version.
 
Yeah, we usually do not get to see what was cut. But we did in this case, and so a lot of people got the chance to see just how much is cut from a game.

Most people have seen very little of what was cut from HL2.
 
And seeing as that is so, would it not have made sense for Valve to heed some of the unanimous cries, opinions and wants regarding the content seen after/from the leak?

Absolutely not. The unanimous (which, isn't unanimous in any way) cries, opinions and wants regarding the content seen after/from the leak are nothing but pure want of something that mystifies you because you have never seen it, never played it or experienced it. It's curiosity. Valve cut one of their designs because it did suck, because it didn't work and it simply wasn't a good game. There's no more to that. That's literally "the end of it."

I'm saying, the leak happened, so why not have Valve make the best of it?

The best of it would be people actually seeing it and saying hey, you know what, I'm glad they cut that. People were never behind the scenes, never there during development. To think that it would have been "better" is a truly ridiculous opinion.

The same opinions that come from those who like Half-Life and who would eventually buy the complete game of HL2.

Half-life 2 is complete, what are you talking about? Understand, the leak didn't change anything. That was cut long ago.
 
I really trust VALVe on this one. Personally, I think they cut certain pieces of the game out (eg. "Traptown" - Combine soldiers and zombies? That would take a lot of work, I believe. Sure, there's combine/zombie combat at the end of Ravenholm, but they're all snipers, who just shoot at any damn thing that moves.) because they couldn't make it work within the time frame that they had. Sure, if the wanted to fit all the cut content in, it would be cooler. Unfortunately, the HL2 release date would've been delayed longer and longer. I think that VALVe knows feature creep when they see it, and they had a deadline to meet.

Other things you guys mentioned, such as the hydra, for example: the problem was simple. Sure, it would be really awesome to have your enemies get impaled by it, But it would be no fun to fight. And it would be completely stupid to have combine soldiers wearing super-armor to get killed, but Gordon in his HEV suit without a helmet totally pwn it.
Other cut stuff, such as the stun baton and the ice axe (more useful for borealis, which was cut from the game), are just worthless to the game. You already have the crowbar, what more do you need?
As for other weapons mentioned: the MP5K, Molotov cocktail, the tau cannon, etc - I, personally, really hate it when I have about 20 firearms to flip through when I'm just trying to find the shotgun. Half-Life 2 uses the essential weapons (melee (crowbar), pistol, SMG, shotgun, grenade), plus a couple of other awesome ideas such as the gravity gun and the crossbow. The MP5K, in real life, is a sub-machine gun. Why have two submachine guns in the game when you only need one? *snip snip*. It's just common sense. Same with the Molotov. It's basically just a crude grenade. Sure, it would be cool to leave patches of fire wherever you go, but why use crude grenades when you have the real thing?
 
So your playing it the millionth time, but you thought something else happened in that scene?
 
"There is a lot of value in refinement. There's an aggressive statement of this princople, which isn't entirely true but it's still interesting: It doesn't matter what we cut, so long as we cut it and it gives us time to focus on other things, because any of the options will be bad unless they're finished, and any of them will be good if they are finished. The key thing is not which things we decide to focus on, but that we focus on them, and we've seen it over and over with weapons and monsters and levels. One of our worst enemies is trying to do too much, rather than narrowing our focus, and whenever we narrow it, that set of interesting problems gets figured out and interesting ways of using that creation become obvious. Doing things halfway is the greatest enemy of creativity, both on the team and for the player."
- Gabe Newell, Half-Life 2: Raising the Bar, page 177.
 
Content that had potential? Had it had potential it'd still be here, right now, for us to play. You have only seen snippets of what was there, what there was going to be; you have never experienced what was cut and you are therefore in no position to say that too much was cut.

We've all seen enough to say that a lot was cut. The leaked game, the leaked mappack and raising bar certainly proove this, as well as Gabe stating he would've liked to spend another year on the game.
Valve didn't have all the time in the world, content also had to be cut due to time management, not because it lacked potential or because it seemingly sucked.
For example, I find it stupid to attribute my desires and wants for the assassin (to have been in the game) as part of the mystification process that surrounds cut content. That's flawed logic; "You only like it because it was cut."
A lot of us actually liked this stuff because it looked good, sounded good and even played good (to the best of it's extent as a beta at least).
Not because "OMG missing content!!!"

The main problem with what was cut, aside from far too many weapons and enemies is the original storyline. The original storyline was far too long, far too generic (post-apocalyptic wastelands...yawn), and spent little or no time developing the characters they had. In short, the original plans for Half-life were absolutely ridiculous I would never even consider attempting such a game.


I agree that the original storyline was a little generic - then again, some elements in the original felt better than the current.
Such as the darker theme the game had - gave the Combine a more tyrannical and ominous appeal.
Gordon action's seem more tremendous in accomplishment in the original. AirEx for example, that seems a lot more satisfying than teleporting away from Nova Prospekt and blowing it up without any direct intervention on your part - hopping in a teleporter with Alyx and NP being subsequently destroyed was more circumstancial if anything.
Fighting your way through a weather-control complex, assisting kraken base etc.
HL2 right now seemed more like a long-tale of leading a rebellion - that's nice, but having directly destroyed some installation directly to supplement it would've been nice too (besides the citadel, which happens in both storylines).

Whilst what you are suggesting with weapons (limiting) could infact work, it still stands that there'd be far, far too many. The game as it is now is so much better. It's got a better storyline (superior pacing, characters and content), the weapons and enemies are sufficient and the gameplay, given the restricted nature of the game, is probably alot better for it.

Okay, then cut some weapons, just don't cut them to the point where you have the limited arsenal we have now in the official HL2 - sure the game was a good experience and worked without needing more weapons. But that doesn't change the fact that many people denounced or ranted about the lack of more weapons needed.
Now people would argue, 'but if we added weapon X, then it would've been ruined/wierd/unbalanced bla bla', which I rebuttle with; that if weapon X had been added, then the game would have been different (depending on the current arsenal) to the point where it would have accomodated the new weapon.

The best of it would be people actually seeing it and saying hey, you know what, I'm glad they cut that.

It's ridiculous for people to dispose of their own opinions and to confide in someone's opinion to just being glad that that stuff was cut.

People were never behind the scenes, never there during development. To think that it would have been "better" is a truly ridiculous opinion.

Nothing is ever certain, and to say that all the content cut from the final game was for the best is presumptious beyond belief. Who's to say what would have made Half-Life 2 perfect/even better?
Who's to say what would've detracted from the game or not?

Valve? No, not fully, unless they had world opinion on hand, it can never be said that all content cut from the final game sucked/was for the best/deserved to be cut.

Half-life 2 is complete, what are you talking about? Understand, the leak didn't change anything. That was cut long ago.
You misunderstand, I was speaking hypothetically, posing the question, if whatever unanimous opinions regarding some missing content was heeded - the opinions that come from the people who would eventually come to buy Half-Life 2 (who eventually did buy Half-Life 2).

I, personally, really hate it when I have about 20 firearms to flip through when I'm just trying to find the shotgun.

If having a funner wider variety of weapons meant the inconvinience of a few more mouse scrolls, so be it.

Half-Life 2 uses the essential weapons (melee (crowbar), pistol, SMG, shotgun, grenade), plus a couple of other awesome ideas such as the gravity gun and the crossbow.

That's just it, HL2 uses only the bare 'essential' weapons... leaving no room for much fun in the weapons category. Geez, you could've gone through Half-Life 1 with the 'bare essentials' and cut out the gluon gun, the satchels, the tripmines, the snarks - but that doesn't make it anymore fun.

It's just common sense. Same with the Molotov. It's basically just a crude grenade. Sure, it would be cool to leave patches of fire wherever you go, but why use crude grenades when you have the real thing?

Um, because it's the resistance, they wouldn't always have access to 'the real thing'. Secondly, a molotov would be different in function - it would provide a short-lasting impasse for enemy forces and all those who are caught within it's blast-fire radius are doomed to death as opposed to the standard grenade.
And thirdly, by your logic, why would you have a buggy anyway? It's basically just a crude armed transport. Sure, it would be cool to fire the gauss gun wherever you drive, but why use crude armed transports when you can have a <*insert some identical but better-looking and better-functioning vehicle here*>.
 
A lot of us actually liked this stuff because it looked good, sounded good and even played good (to the best of it's extent as a beta at least).

Anything can look good or sound good; that is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Not because "OMG missing content!!!"

One in the same.

Such as the darker theme the game had - gave the Combine a more tyrannical and ominous appeal.

The games 'darker theme' is purely subjective. The current game is far darker than what it was. Sure, the original game had "bleak streets" and a darker colour scheme, however this was really quite heavy handed. In the current game the world is abandoned - a lifeless entity that feels far more natural than the old storyline. You say the Combine had a more tyrannical and ominous appeal. I disagree. Sure, there was more evidence of them draining the oceans and changing the weather, but this is again slightly heavy handed in it's approach, and what we have now is far more menacing: the Combine are absorbing and assimilating the species into mindless abominations. This has, arguably, more of an ominous and tyrannical appeal than the usual ho-hum change the Earth crap.

Gordon action's seem more tremendous in accomplishment in the original. AirEx for example, that seems a lot more satisfying than teleporting away from Nova Prospekt and blowing it up without any direct intervention on your part - hopping in a teleporter with Alyx and NP being subsequently destroyed was more circumstancial if anything.

However, that is not the way Valve portray Gordon. He is given a slightly clumsy feel. He is supposed to 'trigger' these things by accident, rather than purpose. This is a continued theme throughout. On the subject of Nova Prospekt/Air Exchange, the Air ex was simply another Combine factory. Hardly as unique and interesting as going through an assimilated gulag.

Fighting your way through a weather-control complex, assisting kraken base etc.
HL2 right now seemed more like a long-tale of leading a rebellion - that's nice, but having directly destroyed some installation directly to supplement it would've been nice too (besides the citadel, which happens in both storylines).

The Citadel was also by accident, rather than purpose. Again, not the theme Valve is trying to put forward.

Okay, then cut some weapons, just don't cut them to the point where you have the limited arsenal we have now in the official HL2 - sure the game was a good experience and worked without needing more weapons. But that doesn't change the fact that many people denounced or ranted about the lack of more weapons needed.
Now people would argue, 'but if we added weapon X, then it would've been ruined/wierd/unbalanced bla bla', which I rebuttle with; that if weapon X had been added, then the game would have been different (depending on the current arsenal) to the point where it would have accomodated the new weapon.

I'm of the argument that more weapons do not make a game better. I don't feel the game needed more weapons and I was quite content with the arsenal. I've always been one of the people who have praised gameplay from a FP perspective that doesn't actually involve simply shooting the bad guys, which I think Half-life 2/ep1 does a good job of pushing for. So again, subjective. Even so though, I personally felt the limited arsenal worked in the games favour.

Nothing is ever certain, and to say that all the content cut from the final game was for the best is presumptious beyond belief. Who's to say what would have made Half-Life 2 perfect/even better?
Who's to say what would've detracted from the game or not?

Doesn't that work on your end as well?

If having a funner wider variety of weapons meant the inconvinience of a few more mouse scrolls, so be it.

I find the idea of "more weapons more fun" slightly mundane. /Opinion

Essentially, what I've seen and played of the old storyline does not interest me. It's approach of more = better is utterly mundane, and the old storyline hasn't a patch on the current. The streamlined and packaged Half-life 2 is one that I'm quite happy with, and I don't see a need to ever really want the old one back, especially when you never really "had it" in the first place.
 
V-Man's correction on why Kleiner rushed teleportation

Back on topic...

the reason it is "rushed" is because you can hear the citadel's alarm going off, metro cops and scanners are looking for Gordon

It's not completely correct actually, because they're not looking for Gordon Freeman in particular. At the time they just know that there's a citizen somewhere where it shouldn't be. You would know this because in the very first chapter when your walking up the second flight of stairs you'll hear the british City-17 PA say something like "Attention! There has been a miscount in your sector" then something about complying with the Metro cops.
 
It's not completely correct actually, because they're not looking for Gordon Freeman in particular. At the time they just know that there's a citizen somewhere where it shouldn't be. You would know this because in the very first chapter when your walking up the second flight of stairs you'll hear the british City-17 PA say something like "Attention! There has been a miscount in your sector" then something about complying with the Metro cops.
Except for when Breen see's you in his office, then they are looking for you!
 
But what about, say the Hydra? Cut? Zero-fun to play against?
Would it really have been that difficult to make Hydra impalment attempts survivable for Gordon (considering he has the HEV suit) albeit highly damaging? Or maybe give the Hydra some different attacks, a whip-like motion that slams the player from the side etc.
Rather than just go "oh, that's no fun, it kills you when it impales you, *snip snip* it's cut."
Maybe they did try those things. However, maybe in the end after playtesting Valve found that there are other funner things that they could put in place of the Hydra.

Now people would argue, 'but if we added weapon X, then it would've been ruined/wierd/unbalanced bla bla', which I rebuttle with; that if weapon X had been added, then the game would have been different (depending on the current arsenal) to the point where it would have accomodated the new weapon.
Sure the came could have worked and it could have made sense if we did X and Y. However, Valve does playtest there games, and for a reason. Valve could playtest it with X and Y, then they could playtest it with Z. They find Z Funner! So they try and implement X, Y, and even Z in different ways to see what that does. Z turns out to even be much funner than X and Y.

Hmm... I wonder whats gonna get added? Probably Z. If you did throw X and Y in there it would just be a gimmic..it's just there to say "hey look what we have".

I am postive Valve tried many different things with the game, different weapons, but in the end they found the majority of people found there current game funner than it did with the things they took out.


edit: my bad DP.
 
I'm still correct on my theory

Except for when Breen see's you in his office, then they are looking for you!

Yeah but that was after he said "Oh dear." and they all rushed to the teleporter, which is the main part we're all refering to.
 
Yeah but that was after he said "Oh dear." and they all rushed to the teleporter, which is the main part we're all refering to.

That whole rushing bit is before that, I think. Barney says things like "Man Gordon, you've stirred up the hive" and "We can't keep him here Doc, he'll jeopardize everything we've worked for".
 
I thought VALVe lefft a lot of stuff out because it was there, but when those guys stole the coding which delayed the erlease they had to reproduce a lot of the game.
 
Yeah but that was after he said "Oh dear." and they all rushed to the teleporter, which is the main part we're all refering to.

So they're looking for someone. But obviously the Combine throws all its metrocops ever at miscounts.

And it throws progressively more difficult enemies at Gordon Freeman.

Odd.
 
I thought VALVe lefft a lot of stuff out because it was there, but when those guys stole the coding which delayed the erlease they had to reproduce a lot of the game.

Nope, that's wrong. They didn't have scrap much at all.
 
So they're looking for someone. But obviously the Combine throws all its metrocops ever at miscounts.

And it throws progressively more difficult enemies at Gordon Freeman.

Odd.
I'm willing to admit they send way to many cops at one miscount, but Dr. Breen only knows Gordon is there once the teleportation goes awry.
You'll go through a multitude of of areas until finally your at one in which Breen is sitting at his desk and asks you "Who are you? How did you get in here?" he then reaches towards his little secuirty caller on his desk but you get teleported away again.
A couple of teleports later you arrive back in his office and you see him talking to a monitor with a picture of the Combine Advisor on it and Breen is saying "Yes, and I'm all but certain it was" he notices you and the monitor aims in your direction "Gordon Freenman.".
Therefore after all that I'm positive we can all be pretty sure he didn't know of Gordon's arrival until now, but he might have known of the miscount in the sector Gordon was rescued by Alyx in.
 
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