David Suzuki article

[Revisedsoul]

i was reading this and figured it would be a good read for the rest of you

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/about_us/Dr_David_Suzuki/Article_Archives/weekly11120401.asp

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Wow, Suzuki took the word outta my mouth.
(Except for the american fundings part, which sadly hasn't happened for me yet. )

 

[Absinthe]

Good article. I'm sick and tired of being accused of anti-Americanism. I like my country and I like a lot of people in it. That's why I'm so distressed by what it's doing and what's taking place inside of it. It's like watching a good friend degenerate into scum. That's only my view, of course, and I know that many people would disagree with it. That won't, however, stop me from voicing my opinion and stating what I think is right for the United States.

There is no hidden liberal agenda aiming to undermine the US. There's just a large percentage of people deeply concerned about the road we're on.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Interesting article. It does indeed feel like the Bush's statement "you're with us or against us" has filtered down to his followers. You have to be wary of such tactless people. While Bush may not be evil at heart all the evidence would point to him being incapable of the kind of thought/intelligence you need to be in that position of power.

But it is precisely because I love America that I am so profoundly disturbed by what is going on there

Werd. America has done so many great things but from an outsiders point of view it looks like Bush is steering the country off on some bizarre tangent.

I'm not sure what point i'm trying to make....oh yeah. 4 more years for Bush, if he can keep the illegal invasions to a minimum, reduce breaches of the geneva convention and various....other things he just might redeem himself.

Until then...

 

[falconwind]

A very good article... interesting that there aren't more comments.

I agree completely with Dr. Suzuki.

Interesting that there are no American responses however... I'd like to hear their thoughts.

 

[Eg.]

meh? there u have it

 

[billy269]

agree!!

 

[Bait]

meh? there u have it

What is this "it" you refer to?

 

[Eg.]

an american response

i take any critizism of the us and ignore it

 

[Gray Fox]

Interseting, so you have the priviledge of living in the most scrutinized county in the world, and what do you do, you choose to ignore it, you dumb dipshit. Most of us don't have the privilege to live in a country that is important enough to be thoroughly scrutinized by outsiders like yours.

 

[Eg.]

see, u hate us because we are rich, y should he have to care about teh masses of rabble? not our problem

 

[Kangy]

an american response

i take any critizism of the us and ignore it

Then why are you even posting here?

People like you are why a lot of people have a negative stereotype of the US.

see, u hate us because we are rich, y should he have to care about teh masses of rabble? not our problem

Why do you suddenly think you're better than all those people that died? Because you have the privaledge of living in a rich country? Woo, sorry if I don't drop my red coat at your feet.

 

[Eg.]

no, im just saying the troubles of another nation should not be taken as an opening to attack the US

everytime we dont do exactly as the world wishes us to they bitch and insult us, then ask us to fix some mess in the world that they dont wan to dirty their hands in

 

[Raziaar]

How can you NOT mistake the criticism for contempt, when they aren't 'sort of calling over half the country idiots', they ARE calling over half the country idiots. Of course, thats just one aspect of the criticism. It's stupid comments like those from stupid people outside of the US that makes us offended. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just helpful criticism, but instead they resort to everything else but that.

 

[Eg.]

actually thats the thing, smart people are making these comments, and thats what worries me

 

[CptStern]

How can you NOT mistake the criticism for contempt, when they aren't 'sort of calling over half the country idiots', they ARE calling over half the country idiots. Of course, thats just one aspect of the criticism. It's stupid comments like those from stupid people outside of the US that makes us offended. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just helpful criticism, but instead they resort to everything else but that.

david suzuki can hardly be called "stupid" ..he's one of the worlds leading enviromentalists ..name one enviromentalist that doesnt think bush is an idiot and I'll give you a cookie

 

[Raziaar]

david suzuki can hardly be called "stupid" ..he's one of the worlds leading enviromentalists ..name one enviromentalist that doesnt think bush is an idiot and I'll give you a cookie

I wasn't calling him stupid. I was calling the rest of the world, the people who were saying comments that half of american's citizens and then some, are idiots just based on who they voted for.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^Pwn in the face.

 

[CptStern]

I wasn't calling him stupid. I was calling the rest of the world, the people who were saying comments that half of american's citizens and then some, are idiots just based on who they voted for.

ah that's just a generalization, just like saying "all insurgents are terrorists"

I'm not so sure they think they're stupid ..it's just that most of the world doesnt understand how a leader who's lied, put american lives on the line and invaded a whole damn country illegally could get re-elected ..I mean the whole WMD thing blew up in his face and he still gets elected ..damn you americans are a little strange the last president gets oral from a bimbo and you all scream for his head on a platter, yet the current prez is seen as a "hero" ..it really boggles the mind

 

[Raziaar]

ah that's just a generalization, just like saying "all insurgents are terrorists"

I'm not so sure they think they're stupid ..it's just that most of the world doesnt understand how a leader who's lied, put american lives on the line and invaded a whole damn country illegally could get re-elected ..I mean the whole WMD thing blew up in his face and he still gets elected ..damn you americans are a little strange the last president gets oral from a bimbo and you all scream for his head on a platter, yet the current prez is seen as a "hero" ..it really boggles the mind

You may have seen reason for him not to be renewed in office, but I didn't, and neither did the majority of the American populace.

And how the hell was that a generalization? I'm only talking about the people who actually SAID those things, which was a hell of a lot, even people on these boards! Not to mention all those american idiots who posted on the 'we'reallsorry' or whatever it was website. They're dumbasses, and would rather people be forced who to vote for like some kind of dictatorship regime.

 

[Bait]

actually thats the thing, smart people are making these comments, and thats what worries me

What worries me more are all the idiots fighting against these seemingly correct opinions of the smart ones.

 

[Raziaar]

What worries me more are all the idiots fighting against these seemingly correct opinions of the smart ones.

Wait, you're telling me you support the idea that peoples votes are wrong because they didn't vote for the guy the other people voted for, and are stupid for who they voted for? You're telling me their votes, and my vote, was a waste all because they voted for bush? <rolls his eyes>

 

[CptStern]

look no offense but you'd have to be pretty naive to still believe going to iraq was the right thing to do

 

[Raziaar]

look no offense but you'd have to be pretty naive to still believe going to iraq was the right thing to do

So? And you would like to force my vote the other way simply because he acted upon critical information that the CIA gave him?

Look. Stern. I'm entitled to my vote. At least I wouldn't try to belittle you for yours if you were a voting citizen of the states.

 

[CptStern]

oh come on, the cia's sources were less than credible, no one outside of the US believed saddam had wmd

 

[KoreBolteR]

Stern, how would we know tho?
he might have had some then sent it to neighbouring countries syria or iran.
look hiding it in a massive country mostly in desert is easy...
anyway , the only way youll ever know if he had them is if you was the terrorists/scientists who make/sell them.
but there is no 100% answer in this.

 

[Raziaar]

oh come on, the cia's sources were less than credible, no one outside of the US believed saddam had wmd

Well... lets see here. Hmm. Who would you trust in the matters of national security. The thousands upon thousands of people who have OPINIONS on whether a country might have WMD's or not, without any actual factual knowledge, or an intelligence agency who's job is to find the right information regarding these sorts of things?

My money would go on the intelligence agency. Not only was it the CIA who said they had WMD's, but it was the intelligence agencies of other countries as well! Many of them!

What, would you have put your money on the average citizen of all these countries? I'm guessing you would, because you obviously only go on what people 'feel', rather than what they 'know'. Was there some sort of secret, civilian intelligence source in all these countries, that some how could bypass ALL the restrictions that were hindering the inspectors, and get the actual truth right out from saddam's mind or some other far fetched bullshit? I didn't think so.

While the CIA and all those other intelligence agencies may have been wrong, they were still the only correct choice.

 

[CptStern]

Well... lets see here. Hmm. Who would you trust in the matters of national security. The thousands upon thousands of people who have OPINIONS on whether a country might have WMD's or not, without any actual factual knowledge, or an intelligence agency who's job is to find the right information regarding these sorts of things?

is that why they took the word of a terrorist?

My money would go on the intelligence agency. Not only was it the CIA who said they had WMD's, but it was the intelligence agencies of other countries as well! Many of them!

such as? the UK? they used the same source as the US: Current iraqi prime minister Iyad Allawi (this fact alone should set off a red flag). He gave the US/UK bullshit information (which didnt really matter as Bush was going to invade anyway, 9/11 just gave him an excuse)

Allawi "Intelligence" Reports

Saddam "Connected" to Al Qaeda
Niger Uranium
WMD in "45 Minutes"
Saddam Stashed Billions


every last one of them a lie

What, would you have put your money on the average citizen of all these countries? I'm guessing you would, because you obviously only go on what people 'feel', rather than what they 'know'. Was there some sort of secret, civilian intelligence source in all these countries, that some how could bypass ALL the restrictions that were hindering the inspectors, and get the actual truth right out from saddam's mind or some other far fetched bullshit? I didn't think so.

look the average joe would tend to beleive the pile of crap bush fed anyone that one listen ..but if you just research the issue and dig a lot deeper, you'll find there is far more compelling evidence that saddam didnt have WMD than evidence that he did.

While the CIA and all those other intelligence agencies may have been wrong, they were still the only correct choice.

and 14,000+ innocent civilians paid the price

 

[CptStern]

Stern, how would we know tho?
he might have had some then sent it to neighbouring countries syria or iran.
look hiding it in a massive country mostly in desert is easy...
anyway , the only way youll ever know if he had them is if you was the terrorists/scientists who make/sell them.
but there is no 100% answer in this.

yes there is ..do you guys think so little of your own intelligence service?

do you remember this:

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.

Dick Cheney August 26, 2002


If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.

Ari Fleischer December 2, 2002


Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

George W. Bush January 28, 2003


We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George Bush February 8, 2003

We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad.

Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003



they seem so darn gone sure of themselves :upstare:

 

[Eg.]

umm, last i heard the nigerian yellow cake turned out ture, an dthose billions of dollars, oils of food program ring a bell?

 

[Absinthe]

Look. Stern. I'm entitled to my vote. At least I wouldn't try to belittle you for yours if you were a voting citizen of the states.

You're entitled to your vote.

I'm entitled to think you made one big mistake if it went to Bush.

And I don't know why you think the people at "Sorry Everybody" want to fix your votes.

 

[Kangy]

umm, last i heard the nigerian yellow cake turned out ture, an dthose billions of dollars, oils of food program ring a bell?

What? Would you mind putting that sentence into a form that makes sense?

 

[Eg.]

yellow cake connection=turned out to be true

saddam stashing away billions of dollars=oild for food program

 

[B_MAN]

this thread has turned into exactly what i knew it would
a flame war... US vs WORLD