Death sentence

[The Monkey]

*cough*

 

[burner69]

Sorry monkey!!

 

[Razor]

Why the death sentance? We can send all our most hardened criminals to Australia.

Or the moon maybe.

"Escape From Australia"

See Kurt Russel reprise his role as Snake Pliskin as he is dropped deep inside the maximum security prison, known only as Australia, or to the inmates "Oz Land", looking for an American secret agent who was captured by their criminal leader; an evil wench codenamed Bliink by the Western governments.

 

[The Monkey]

Sorry monkey!!

If you would have dragged it up people would have complained like hell anyways (including me ) Besides, I spelt "peace" wrong in that thread. :|

 

[burner69]

If you would have dragged it up people would have complained like hell anyways (including me ) Besides, I spelt "peace" wrong in that thread. :|

Yeah, you see, made a FOOL of urself now....

Now electricity shall be passed through your body until you are dead.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

My opinion is that the death sentence should only be reserved for very serious serial killers where the evidence against them is 100% concrete.

I agree. Not necessarily a serial killer only but anyone with an overwhelming proof it's them.

Like I've said before, the man who stands in the K-Mart parking lot, stabs people getting out of their car killing them, and is taken down by police IN the act needs to be executed.

 

[Raziaar]

Did I say bend their will? If so sorry, I meant remove the urge for them to commit crime. They still have the ability to commit the crime, but they wouldn't feel inclined to do so.
So overall you'd get less crime.
Just like you have anti-depressants to stop people being depressed, you could have anti-criminality pills to stop people feeling like killing or thieving perhaps.

And crime has been linked to mental health problems in a lot of cases.

Anyway it's nothing more than handwavy speculation of the future on my part, I'm not suggesting the world should have a Yuri off Red Alert 2 or anything. I'm just saying maybe the criminal mind could be treated as a mental illness in certain instances.

Thats just fine. But pills are not going to fix a chemical imbalance for 90% of the hardened, cold blooded killers out there, because there likely isn't going to be a chemical imbalance for many of them.

 

[KoreBolteR]

I agree. Not necessarily a serial killer only but anyone with an overwhelming proof it's them.

Like I've said before, the man who stands in the K-Mart parking lot, stabs people getting out of their car killing them, and is taken down by police IN the act needs to be executed.

he should be marched to the police station and shot imo.

"when an individual murders a person/s, he had instantly lost his own life when caught by police, and the evidence against him is overwhelming."

 

[burner69]

Thats just fine. But pills are not going to fix a chemical imbalance for 90% of the hardened, cold blooded killers out there, because there likely isn't going to be a chemical imbalance for many of them.

The problem would be, once the drug was invented, in getting them to keep taking it. Drugs CAN and DO alter a person's personality while under the influence, they could work, but it'd be tough to work in practise.

 

[Raziaar]

The problem would be, once the drug was invented, in getting them to keep taking it. Drugs CAN and DO alter a person's personality while under the influence, they could work, but it'd be tough to work in practise.

If they do anything other than fix a person's chemical imbalances, its a form of mind control <chuckles>

You'd think you liberals would be more afraid of that than me! Unless you care to explain how it would alter a persons personality other than fixing a chemical inbalance in their body like today's medicine can do.

 

[burner69]

If they do anything other than fix a person's chemical imbalances, its a form of mind control <chuckles>

You'd think you liberals would be more afraid of that than me! Unless you care to explain how it would alter a persons personality other than fixing a chemical inbalance in their body like today's medicine can do.

Well, pretty much all drugs muck about with chemicals. I think a nice liberal stance could be: "Right, this is your fifth offense (thieving, not like, murder) you can either go to jail for 5 years, or start taking these drugs. Choose."

 

[Cole]

Ok i hate the death sentence.
It is totally not good enough!
We need to like put them in chains, come in every once in a while with a knife and cut a square inch of skin off them, and just leave. We need to poke there eyes with things and a light them on figure and have a bunch of people laughin at them.

My ideas upon the death sentence...just not good enough...
Torture..now thats good enough.
To bad here in america we can't do that...

 

[Raziaar]

Well, pretty much all drugs muck about with chemicals. I think a nice liberal stance could be: "Right, this is your fifth offense (thieving, not like, murder) you can either go to jail for 5 years, or start taking these drugs. Choose."

So, you'd force them to bend their mind into someone they are not(if they don't have a brain chemical imbalance), or else toss them in jail?

 

[KoreBolteR]

Ok i hate the death sentence.
It is totally not good enough!
We need to like put them in chains, come in every once in a while with a knife and cut a square inch of skin off them, and just leave. We need to poke there eyes with things and a light them on figure and have a bunch of people laughin at them.

My ideas upon the death sentence...just not good enough...
Torture..now thats good enough.
To bad here in america we can't do that...

i see your point, or we could kill them the same way they killed they're victim(s).

assuming its more than one, they should do the worst case scenario.

that wud stop criminals killing to get in the prison hotel complex.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Well, pretty much all drugs muck about with chemicals. I think a nice liberal stance could be: "Right, this is your fifth offense (thieving, not like, murder) you can either go to jail for 5 years, or start taking these drugs. Choose."

Er, by the fifth offense they sure as hell best be doing more than 5 years. By third or fourth it should be life w/ generous parole options for thieves and the like.

 

[burner69]

So, you'd force them to bend their mind into someone they are not(if they don't have a brain chemical imbalance), or else toss them in jail?

yeah basically.
It's no different to what theropy, or a spell in jail is hoping to achieve. And you could throw in some MDMA-type drug, then they'd be uncriminal, and quite happy about the fact.

Ok i hate the death sentence.
It is totally not good enough!
We need to like put them in chains, come in every once in a while with a knife and cut a square inch of skin off them, and just leave. We need to poke there eyes with things and a light them on figure and have a bunch of people laughin at them.

My ideas upon the death sentence...just not good enough...
Torture..now thats good enough.
To bad here in america we can't do that...

Good god.

i see your point, or we could kill them the same way they killed they're victim(s).

assuming its more than one, they should do the worst case scenario.

that wud stop criminals killing to get in the prison hotel complex.

What what what? We're endorsing torture, endorsing literally bringing the justice system to their level, and calling prisons hotels? Woooah.

Er, by the fifth offense they sure as hell best be doing more than 5 years. By third or fourth it should be life w/ generous parole options for thieves and the like.

So what if a poor kid, who dosen't have a job, his parents have split and his Dad's a full time alcoholic is busted nicking a TV from a posher side of town? Say he got busted trying something similar earlier in the year, and he's got a conviction for poessesion of cannabis - is a life time jail senetence going to help him, and make him respect soceity?

Or perhaps we should just torture him or something

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

So what if a poor kid, who dosen't have a job, his parents have split and his Dad's a full time alcoholic is busted nicking a TV from a posher side of town? Say he got busted trying something similar earlier in the year, and he's got a conviction for poessesion of cannabis - is a life time jail senetence going to help him, and make him respect soceity?

Or perhaps we should just torture him or something

Juvenile punishment is different, but yes he should get maybe 5-15 years for that. I don't see how the dad thing came in.. unless you were using a specific real life example of someone you know or something. But yeah, I'd like to be protected from scum like him.

 

[Pericolos0]

i think its better to help those kids, than put them into prison. What is he gonna do when he comes back after 5-15 years? He has no feeling with society, never had a real job etc. He's just gonna get back into stealing and drugs

 

[burner69]

i think its better to help those kids, than put them into prison. What is he gonna do when he comes back after 5-15 years? He has no feeling with society, never had a real job etc. He's just gonna get back into stealing and drugs

Yeah, that was my point.
Surely they need rehabilitation programs, his father was teaching him nothing about being a good citizen, the law was just locking him up, and he would just keep on being a crim.

 

[bvasgm]

Despite what everyone else may think, a person being mentally challenged should not serve as an excuse. Just because someone is that slow doesn't mean that they can be above the laws of society. Oh by the way, Death Penalty = a good idea: Costs money to keep people in jail. Eventually the jails are filled and more are required. That costs money. Guards, food, electricity, heat, clothing, etc etc. Additionally, in some cases, the accomodations given to convicts is more hospitable than their previous living conditions...I'm sorry, I just don't see sitting in a room with air conditioning and central heating, getting three good meals a day and having cable, is a punishment...even if it is for the rest of your life. There are people in this world who deserve a harsher punishment than society is willing to justify. I mean, honestly, how can you not feel that a serial rapist/kidnapper/child molesting murderer doesn't dererve some form of real punishment for what they did? Anyway, that's just my two cents.

 

[Steve]

Despite what everyone else may think, a person being mentally challenged should not serve as an excuse. Just because someone is that slow doesn't mean that they can be above the laws of society. Oh by the way, Death Penalty = a good idea: Costs money to keep people in jail. Eventually the jails are filled and more are required. That costs money. Guards, food, electricity, heat, clothing, etc etc. Additionally, in some cases, the accomodations given to convicts is more hospitable than their previous living conditions...I'm sorry, I just don't see sitting in a room with air conditioning and central heating, getting three good meals a day and having cable, is a punishment...even if it is for the rest of your life. There are people in this world who deserve a harsher punishment than society is willing to justify. I mean, honestly, how can you not feel that a serial rapist/kidnapper/child molesting murderer doesn't dererve some form of real punishment for what they did? Anyway, that's just my two cents.

You forgot to mention all the awful people they have to be in there WITH. Think everyone's all nice-nice in prison?

 

[RZAL]

Despite what everyone else may think, a person being mentally challenged should not serve as an excuse. Just because someone is that slow doesn't mean that they can be above the laws of society. Oh by the way, Death Penalty = a good idea: Costs money to keep people in jail. Eventually the jails are filled and more are required. That costs money. Guards, food, electricity, heat, clothing, etc etc. Additionally, in some cases, the accomodations given to convicts is more hospitable than their previous living conditions...I'm sorry, I just don't see sitting in a room with air conditioning and central heating, getting three good meals a day and having cable, is a punishment...even if it is for the rest of your life. There are people in this world who deserve a harsher punishment than society is willing to justify. I mean, honestly, how can you not feel that a serial rapist/kidnapper/child molesting murderer doesn't dererve some form of real punishment for what they did? Anyway, that's just my two cents.

So you don't think the standard should be "mens rea" based on mental capacity or competence. If thats the case I guess we could start charging farm animals with crimes. Your honor the goose is guilty.......sorry I just had to.

 

[bvasgm]

No, what I'm saying is that just because someone has the mental capacity of a goose, doesn't mean that they should be able to plead insanity..sorry, I just don't think it should work that way. Let the flaming begin!

 

[RZAL]

No, what I'm saying is that just because someone has the mental capacity of a goose, doesn't mean that they should be able to plead insanity..sorry, I just don't think it should work that way. Let the flaming begin!

Ok, you agree with "mens rea" but don't agree with the MNaughten Rule. I guess that makes sense.

 

[bvasgm]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. If someone knows that something's illegal, and they do it, they should be punished. If someone doesn't know something is aginst the law and they do it, they should still be punished. Weather or not the person knew what they did was wrong, the fact is..they still did it.

 

[RZAL]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. If someone knows that something's illegal, and they do it, they should be punished. If someone doesn't know something is aginst the law and they do it, they should still be punished. Weather or not the person knew what they did was wrong, the fact is..they still did it.

Sounds like you might be confusing mens rea with the ignorance or mistake defense or even possibly confusing crimes requiring proof of mental fault with strict liability crimes. I personally wouldn’t want to see all crimes fall under strict liability it would be a field day for prosecutors and an injustice to the accused. Think about it, if you accidentally picked up someone else’s schoolbook by mistake, you could legally be found guilty of larceny.

As for the MNaughten Rule, how can you be held responsible if you don’t know an act is right or wrong because your laboring under such a defect of reason, from diseases of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act you were doing, or if you did know it, that you did know that what you were doing was wrong.

The MNaughten Rule established the burden of proof that, every man is presumed to be sane and to possess a sufficient degree of reason to be responsible for his crimes, until the contrary be proved to the (jury’s) satisfaction; and that to establish a defense on the grounds of insanity, it must be clearly proved.

In reality, very few offenders use the Insanity plea and even fewer are successful in using it.

 

[bvasgm]

Sounds like you might be confusing mens rea with the ignorance or mistake defense or even possibly confusing crimes requiring proof of mental fault with strict liability crimes. I personally wouldn’t want to see all crimes fall under strict liability it would be a field day for prosecutors and an injustice to the accused. Think about it, if you accidentally picked up someone else’s schoolbook by mistake, you could legally be found guilty of larceny.

Ok, first of all..what are you a ******* lawyer?? :rolling: Second, with regards to the whole schoolbook thing...come on..you know what I mean. A person shouldn't be able to say (no matter how rarely this actually happens) that they didn't know killing someone was wrong...Serious crimes..serious. I'm not talking about petty theft or...I don't know, J-walking...serious crimes....serious.

 

[Kebean PFC]

I support capital punishment. I for one do not want my taxes to go support some asshole who killed someone. You know that we have to pay for thier food and other sh*t. Me, it really pisses me off. You can quote whoever, and if your a lawyer, just shut up cause i hate you (not you personally but people like defense lawyers for Peterson). He (peterson) is one who realy deserves the death penalty. Anybody who kills a woman and her unborn child (or any child for that matter) deserves to die, no matter what race, gender, etc.

My $0.02
<Puts on flame retardent vest>

 

[burner69]

I'm against the death penalty. If you guys have a problem with paying for people to be imprisoned for years, you should start advocating the legalisation of drugs, or perhaps just cannabis - because half of US jails are filled with people down for purely drug offenses.

So clear them out, you can slap some more real crims in. Sorted.

Secondly, I'm guessing nobody here has a clue about what it's like to be so mentally disabled that they have no idea about good and evil. Killing somebody who is in that kind of state is just idiotic, noone learns a lesson, no-one is brought back from the grave, and we take another human life.

 

[Kebean PFC]

Hell, one less person to populate the world. If you really are that messed up, then i dont belielve that you should be left alive with the chance of spreading your obviously faulty genes. BTW I don't think people should be thrown in jail for drug abuse. I think that you should be able to go to your local drug store, sit down in a CLOSED ROOM and shoot up. More money for the govt, and if you die, oh well. Other less serious drug (Marujana sp?) should be allowed in certain "zones" and drug use otside these zones should be illegal, and you should get thrown in jail. I have never smoked or used drugs before in my relitivly short life, so don't use that argument.

My $0.02

 

[RZAL]

Ok, first of all..what are you a ******* lawyer??

Could be…… I know my criminal law.

Second, with regards to the whole schoolbook thing...come on..you know what I mean. A person shouldn't be able to say (no matter how rarely this actually happens) that they didn't know killing someone was wrong...Serious crimes.. seriousI'm not talking about petty theft or...I don't know, J-walking... serious crimes.... serious

No it’s based on the same principles, criminal law and even civil law have elements called states of mind. Example of criminal laws are; Intentionally, knowingly, willfully, maliciously, with malice and forethought, wantonly, negligently, strict liability, and specific intent. The difference in states of mind could make the difference between 1st deg Murder, 2nd deg murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, felony death by vehicle, misd. Death by vehicle. I could also name off an endless list of crimes based on these same principles.

Look I’m pro death penalty to an extent, however I would never support doing away with the insanity plea or states of mind. Why? Because all of these principles serve a particular purpose and came about because of over zealous prosecutors, laws, and circumstances based on individual cases.