Diablo III Auction House

[Wanted Bob]

Awesome, my friends and I can make a buck while presumably wasting time! Party on, wayne.

(don't give a shit about 'mods' for an aRPG, and I always have a damn internet connection when I'm gaming)

This. In my opinion it's a pretty cool idea and I would probably give it a shot if I bought this game and found a rare item I didn't want. With that said, the market is going to be flooded with people devoted to finding rare items for cash, so there is very little chance for a casual D3 player to make a buck.

 

[Eejit]

I'm not entirely convinced that it's praiseworthy to encourage people to treat a game as a job.

 

[Kitfox]

I'm not entirely convinced that it's praiseworthy to encourage people to treat a game as a job.

Why are people jumping to all these conclusions?
Regardless whether this feature is implemented people would buy and sell items for real money. There are gold/item farms in games now (The chinese government even uses its prisoners to farm gold in mmos like wow). Any way you look at it it will happen. The difference here is that it can be done easily, its safe to do so, and will be regulated by blizzard. An average player can just stumble into some rare good and make a small profit. This will not change your game experience since you can simply ignore it entirely. Or you can maybe stumble on a good item that useless to you and make a small profit which you can then use to buy your self something useful.

If you sit and think about it for a few seconds this idea is a good one, if you don't think so then you are either purposefully trolling, bandwagoning, or you don't make any income and the second something is designed to involve money you feel like you've been "left out".

 

[ktimekiller]

Wasn't max players per game 4? I want my default 8 from d2

 

[Ennui]

Too bad about no mod support, didn't expect much else though.

Don't care about permanent Internet connection or virtual marketplace.

 

[B_MAN]

Wasn't max players per game 4? I want my default 8 from d2

5 would've been nice... you know, one for every class

 

[Bad^Hat]

You know, I've thought about this some more and I don't ****ing like it.

Why are people jumping to all these conclusions?
Regardless whether this feature is implemented people would buy and sell items for real money. There are gold/item farms in games now (The chinese government even uses its prisoners to farm gold in mmos like wow). Any way you look at it it will happen.

You're acting like it'll be no different either way, and you're wrong. Blizzard directly endorsing this and providing an easy way to do it in-game is the problem, not that it "happens anyway." Your WoW comparison doesn't really work, either. Most (if not all?) Diablo loot is unbound and can be traded easily from player to player. In WoW, the vast majority of worthwhile loot is bind on pickup and can't be bought at auction. Unless they changed the way loot behaves in D3, this means they've just made it easier to buy your way through the game instead of playing legitimately. Whether or not people did that regardless doesn't make it okay for Blizzard to encourage it, and it's hardly going to help the situation if they have no interest in clamping down on it, as they did in WoW.

The difference here is that it can be done easily, its safe to do so, and will be regulated by blizzard. An average player can just stumble into some rare good and make a small profit. This will not change your game experience since you can simply ignore it entirely. Or you can maybe stumble on a good item that useless to you and make a small profit which you can then use to buy your self something useful.

My problem with it is that it trivializes the importance of loot, whether I actually use it or not. This is a problem because loot is kind of a big deal in Diablo.

If you sit and think about it for a few seconds this idea is a good one, if you don't think so then you are either purposefully trolling, bandwagoning, or you don't make any income and the second something is designed to involve money you feel like you've been "left out".

Yeah, those ****ing poor people griping that they can't afford to buy virtual items in a game they already paid for.

Here's what I have a real problem with: Blizzard is cashing out on this at every level. You can say they're "keeping it safe" or "regulating" it, but get real, they're doing this for profit. Every time you put up an auction, they get a cut, regardless of whether it sells. Someone undercuts you by a cent, tough shit, Blizzard just made bank on your misfortune. If the item sells, they take an additional fee. Feel like withdrawing the cash you made on the items you found? There's a fee on that, too. This is completely unconscionable, and if you support it then you're okay with giving Blizzard a license to print money.

Another one. :v

 

[xcellerate]

Look at the D2 economy though. There was a time when 6 pskulls could buy you an soj, now the only way of getting an soj is finding one or finding an equally rare item that's worth an soj. Or you could go on one of the numerous item sites, drop $1.50 and get 2 sojs in a few minutes.

It sucks because it can make all the 'work' people did building their characters less important now because anybody with a credit card could just go purchase items. But like TF2 and the random crits, the RMAH makes d3 more accessible for new people.

 

[StardogChampion]

This game is getting more and more MMO and is subsequently making me want it less and less.

Same here. Every new piece of info that gets released make it seem worse and worse.

 

[comradesean]

Blizzard really should just have let gold sellers run D3's economy into the ground like usual and not tried anything to fix it. I mean, letting players sell trash for modest sums of cash in a casual video game? That's horrible!

 

[Eejit]

Sure is white knight in here.



Make dollars from random chance occurrences. More chances the longer you spend doing it. Proprietor takes a cut.

That's a nice disguise you have for your casino there Blizz.

 

[comradesean]

Sure is white knight in here.



Make dollars from random chance occurrences. More chances the longer you spend doing it. Proprietor takes a cut.

That's a nice disguise you have for your casino there Blizz.

Simpsons did it or something.

http://d2items.com
http://www.d2sale.com/
http://www.diabloitems.net/
http://lewt.com/diablo-2/
http://www.d2auction.com/
http://www.d2supplies.com/
oh and
http://www.d2pal.com/servlet/StoreFront


edit:
How can you sit there and say that this is demeaning the value of items when these services ALREADY exist and are so easy to use with a near-zero risk of being caught as a buyer?

How can you possibly blame blizzard for giving "buyers" (the true parasite, but they're not selling. They're just like you and me.) a new place for their purchases which will, hopefully, remove the illegitimate sources of gold/item sellers?

How do you even rationalize your complaint with this new system here without considering how much of a negative impact illegal gold/item sales has had on the multiplayer component of Diablo 2 since forever ago?

edit: edit: fixed some typos: buyers to sellers and cleared up thoughts in first paragraph

 

[Eejit]

The difference is in the selling not the buying...

 

[comradesean]

The difference is in the selling not the buying...

Please elaborate how that is different? Better yet, how does that even effect you?

The item is ALREADY being sold. There is already a large enough market for these deals that sellers can afford to lose accounts by the handful. Just because you're not out there buying your own share of armor and weapons doesn't mean it isn't happening in this game. Don't blame a company for removing the blindfold you were wearing.

On another note, the purchase is what's important; not selling. A purchase tells the seller what that item is worth. Illegal and out-of-game trades artificially inflate prices with a smaller market and the fear of being caught and getting banned. With an in-game method of auctioning items for cash you will see more sellers and more appropriately priced items. The companies that have been making a living off the back of D2 and D1 players will either vanish or play the same game we're playing. This will also reward all players with a more balanced economy! At least, that's what I'm hoping.

I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong here but how can you blame Blizzard for this when it's clearly what a lot of non-vocal players want?

edit: Forgot to mention that the fee isn't Blizzard being a greedy son of a bitch either. It's there to DISCOURAGE sales in the auction house. They also apparently have methods in place to discourage large quantities of items being placed as well! The AH wasn't designed to give people a place to sell items. It's there to give buyers a place to buy items.

 

[Eejit]

I'm not talking about the consequences for typical gold-sellers. I don't disagree with you there.
Please re-read my previous posts. I'm talking about how vastly facilitating the selling of items for cash for normal players makes the game into something rather disturbing. It's essentially enabling gambling and helping a far large audience treat the game as a job.

 

[comradesean]

I'm not talking about the consequences for typical gold-sellers. I don't disagree with you there.
Please re-read my previous posts. I'm talking about how vastly facilitating the selling of items for cash for normal players makes the game into something rather disturbing. It's essentially enabling gambling and helping a far large audience treat the game as a job.

I don't know if I can fully see your point. It's true that it's opening up this forbidden fruit for people who normally don't have much experience with real-currency trading, but I honestly believe that people can take care of themselves.

Gambling isn't a bad thing. Diablo has always been a gambling game. Whether it involved real-currency or not, it was still always gambling. And, unless you were already turned away from the game, I don't see how involving real-currency should change your opinion on that. When you think about it, wouldn't the AH still be a problem even if it was just virtual gold? Why is wasting your life away in front of a virtual auction house suddenly different when you involve real-currency?

Also as a video game, I have no idea how it could ever be mistakenly treated as a job. I mean, you'd have to have intent for it to be anything else. There's no sharp distinction where the auction house refuses to let you go out and play the game or go to work. You'd have to make that decision yourself. Which, in all honesty, is ridiculous and a very stupid thing to do. (No doubt, some will still try)

edit: "take care of" not "take of"

 

[Kitfox]

I know your casino analogy sounds good in your head but clearly you've never been to a casino or don't know what gambling is. Once again I say that people need to think this concept through.

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

No one is forcing you to use the auction house if it bother you that much.

 

[comradesean]

I know your casino analogy sounds good in your head but clearly you've never been to a casino or don't know what gambling is. Once again I say that people need to think this concept through.

I think he means that people are going to camp boss/unique monsters for rare loot to sell. Essentially, gambling their time and hoping to strike it rich.

The problem with this is that people already do that.

 

[Kitfox]

I think he means that people are going to camp boss/unique monsters for rare loot to sell. Essentially, gambling their time and hoping to strike it rich.

The problem with this is that people already do that.

Again this doesn't affect a normal player as this isn't a persistent mmo.

 

[comradesean]

Again this doesn't effect any one as this isn't a persistent mmo.

It does effect everyone though. Every item and piece of gold spawned and introduced into the game effects the economy which will now be more persistent in an MMO fashion with the auction house. (whether virtual or real currency)

That's not what everyone is complaining about though.

I'm not sure if there's a correct term for this, but it feels more like people are having an irrational "for the children" attack when it comes to monetizing virtual good. (Even when the money swaps player's hands instead of going directly to the company! lol)

 

[Kitfox]

You can choose to play this game like a job or you can choose to play this game like a game.

You could easily play through Diablo 2 and never trade a single thing. Believe it or not the old way of trading was hard and tedious. In diablo 3 there is a normal gold based auction house. Why assumes that everyone will be posting items only in the currency based auction house? Not everyone will be interested in doing that. People who don't have money will not participate in it. Those people are just as likely to find something valuable.

 

[Kyorisu]

Real money transactions benefit no one but Blizzard. I bet you'll still see rouge trading happening to bypass the cut Blizzard wants.

 

[Bad^Hat]

edit: Forgot to mention that the fee isn't Blizzard being a greedy son of a bitch either. It's there to DISCOURAGE sales in the auction house. They also apparently have methods in place to discourage large quantities of items being placed as well! The AH wasn't designed to give people a place to sell items. It's there to give buyers a place to buy items.

I'm not sure if there's a correct term for this, but it feels more like people are having an irrational "for the children" attack when it comes to monetizing virtual good. (Even when the money swaps player's hands instead of going directly to the company! lol)

Wow. Hook, line and sinker.

 

[Yorick]

I'm not sure if there's a correct term for this, but it feels more like people are having an irrational "for the children" attack when it comes to monetizing virtual good. (Even when the money swaps player's hands instead of going directly to the company! lol)

I have no idea where this came from, but it strikes me as being pretty incorrect.

 

[comradesean]

I have no idea where this came from, but it strikes me as being pretty incorrect.

Basically just saying people aren't being very rational about this. Most posts here are just Real Currency For Virtual Goods is Bad No Matter What. A lot of people are just repeating each other like puppets and dismissing anything that may give legitimate reason for such a feature.

Just look at the two posts above yours as an example.


edit: Not saying I disagree that we may still see sellers. It's possible, but it's also possible that we won't. I believe that they won't have enough buyers willing to go outside of the auction house. It's similar to dealing with piracy. People will go whatever way is most accessible. Can't really say until we see it in practice though.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Hey how about read my earlier posts where I already went over this shit before dismissing my most recent one which is, itself, a dismissal. :v

I don't really understand why you keep pointing out that it will combat gold sellers, though. That's Blizzard's problem, not our's. The way they've chosen to deal with it is completely brilliant in a business sense, but it's not making their game any more attractive to people like me. Whoops, guess I'm being "left out."

 

[morgs]

Makes no difference to me, It wont stop me enjoying the game as much as I know I will.

 

[comradesean]

Hey how about read my earlier posts where I already went over this shit before dismissing my most recent one which is, itself, a dismissal. :v

I don't really understand why you keep pointing out that it will combat gold sellers, though. That's Blizzard's problem, not our's. The way they've chosen to deal with it is completely brilliant in a business sense, but it's not making their game any more attractive to people like me. Whoops, guess I'm being "left out."

The thing is that I agree with you on most points. It's just that when it comes to real currency transactions you just "disagree on principle" which is basically you're just mad Blizzard is going to get rich exploiting it's fanbase. [/sarcasm]

I'm honestly not sure if these things bother me or not. The auction house is easily avoided on a personal level, but imbalances loot progression on the whole.

Loot progression is already imbalanced. Loot progression NEVER existed in any diablo game.

Buying gold and equipment with real currency was bound to happen anyway, but Blizzard endorsing (and profiting from) it hardly helps matters.

How do you justify that comment? It's going to happen, but how is it worse that Blizard is endorsing it? Is your real problem that they're profiting from it?

Online only won't affect me as I'd planned on only creating battle.net characters anyway, but it's a punch in the dick for anyone who preferred to play offline for whatever reason. And not allowing mods? Again, not something I'd be particularly interested in, but I don't see the reason for it.

It just worries me that Blizz have been taking more and more restrictive measures like this since Starcraft 2. Then again I guess those weren't a huge problem for that community (as far as I've heard), so maybe it'll be fine? I don't like it in principle, in any case.

Agreed. Don't like this at all.

You're acting like it'll be no different either way, and you're wrong. Blizzard directly endorsing this and providing an easy way to do it in-game is the problem, not that it "happens anyway." Your WoW comparison doesn't really work, either. Most (if not all?) Diablo loot is unbound and can be traded easily from player to player. In WoW, the vast majority of worthwhile loot is bind on pickup and can't be bought at auction. Unless they changed the way loot behaves in D3, this means they've just made it easier to buy your way through the game instead of playing legitimately. Whether or not people did that regardless doesn't make it okay for Blizzard to encourage it, and it's hardly going to help the situation if they have no interest in clamping down on it, as they did in WoW.

So are you against the gold based auction house as well? You're talking about item trading as if it wasn't one of the biggest requests from players. This isn't something Blizzard pushed for. A large percentage of the playerbase wanted this feature and it's there. Why is it any different at all when it's real currency and not gold?

My problem with it is that it trivializes the importance of loot, whether I actually use it or not. This is a problem because loot is kind of a big deal in Diablo.

Since when? My friends always decked me out in Diablo 2 when I played with them. Are you against that too?

Here's what I have a real problem with: Blizzard is cashing out on this at every level. You can say they're "keeping it safe" or "regulating" it, but get real, they're doing this for profit. Every time you put up an auction, they get a cut, regardless of whether it sells. Someone undercuts you by a cent, tough shit, Blizzard just made bank on your misfortune. If the item sells, they take an additional fee. Feel like withdrawing the cash you made on the items you found? There's a fee on that, too. This is completely unconscionable, and if you support it then you're okay with giving Blizzard a license to print money.

Wrong.

Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date.

Everything they're doing points to their desire to kill the large sellers. I really can't argue with the sell-out angle. That's just being bitter. I can't blame Blizzard for making a buck while also fixing a major ****ing problem at the same time.


IMPORTANT EDIT: At the same time, I'm not arguing as to whether Blizzard is justified or not anyway. That's just stupid and will only result in bickering and fanboying/fanhating. I'm also not even arguing as to whether the system should or shouldn't exist either since auction houses were largely a fan request. What I am arguing is that a Real Currency Auction House, as opposed to only a gold-based auction house, will effectively benefit all players in the end. Hopefully ending the tyranny of item/gold sellers and giving everyone a more balanced in-game economy.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Ahh what did you do to the forums this quote is all ****ed up.

which is basically you're just mad Blizzard is going to get rich exploiting it's fanbase.

... Sure?

Loot progression is already imbalanced. It NEVER existed in any diablo game.

Fair point. Doesn't mean there's no way for it to get even worse.

How do you justify that comment? It's going to happen, but how is it worse that Blizard is endorsing it? Is your real problem that they're profiting from it?

Because, like I said, they're encouraging people to take advantage of a system that used to be against their terms, and providing an easy way to do it in-game. It's "worse" because... christ, you figure it out. You really think this isn't going to attract more people than already did it through back channels at the risk of losing their accounts? The problem is that they're legitimizing it.

So are you against the gold based auction house as well? You're talking about item trading as if it wasn't one of the biggest requests from players. This isn't something Blizzard pushed for. A large percentage of the playerbase wanted this feature and it's there. Why is it any different at all when it's real currency and not gold?

Because real currency has absolutely nothing to do with your actual in-game progression. It's literally gaming the system, and Blizzard aren't only okaying it, they're setting themselves up to profit from it.

Wrong.

"Limited number of transactions." Oh good, they're easing players into the system before they start exploiting them for profit. So what?

Everything they're doing points to their desire to kill the large sellers. I really can't argue with the sell-out angle. That's just being bitter. I can't blame Blizzard for making a buck while also fixing a major ****ing problem at the same time.

Please describe to me what this solves for the average player who never bothered with gold sellers in the first place. Maybe I'm missing something as I never played Diablo 2 at high-end with any kind of seriousness.

 

[comradesean]

Because, like I said, they're encouraging people to take advantage of a system that used to be against their terms, and providing an easy way to do it in-game. It's "worse" because... christ, you figure it out. You really think this isn't going to attract more people than already did it through back channels at the risk of losing their accounts? The problem is that they're legitimizing it.

Technically the game really doesn't even have any ToS yet since it's not out yet.
All I'm going to say is that it is a "good thing" that it will attract more people to sell. The idea should be to create competition to the as-of-right-now illegal gold/item sellers and effectively instate a supply/demand economy in-game. Otherwise, you have these illegals running rampant and making tremendous amounts of real world cash through a pseudo-monopoly.

Because real currency has absolutely nothing to do with your actual in-game progression. It's literally gaming the system, and Blizzard aren't only okaying it, they're setting themselves up to profit from it.

As I said, this unfortunately already exists. This is an attempt to remove these people from the equation. They have to make it easy enough to make money to have people sell through it, but also difficult enough to prevent people from just taking over the market.

"Limited number of transactions." Oh good, they're easing players into the system before they start exploiting them for profit. So what?

I could be wrong, but I read that as you get a certain amount of transactions at a single time. Once it sells, it resets.

Please describe to me what this solves for the average player who never bothered with gold sellers in the first place. Maybe I'm missing something as I never played Diablo 2 at high-end with any kind of seriousness.

I can't say with certainty that this will solve anything. And to be really ****ing clear to you, I know my perspective isn't Blizzard's and I could be totally off the mark with this. I just see a very strong attempt to squash gold selling.
The benefits being: (HOPEFULLY)
1. You can have public games and meet new people without some jackass joining your game and spamming about WWW.DIABLO2ITEMSFORSALEJUSTNEEDYOUTOBENDOVER.COM
2. You can use the auction house without prices being jacked up insanely high because of out-of-game selling.
The downsides:
1. You might be tempted to use the gold/currency auction house and lose a willpower roll.

 

[Bad^Hat]

The idea should be to create competition to the as-of-right-now illegal gold/item sellers and effectively instate a supply/demand economy in-game. Otherwise, you have these illegals running rampant and making tremendous amounts of real world cash through a pseudo-monopoly.

This is an attempt to remove these people from the equation.

Right, and these things are great for Blizzard as they (hypothetically) no longer have to expend time and effort combating gold sellers once they become part of the system. Like I said, it's a brilliant business decision - they're not only solving a problem, they're profiting from the solution. That's not what I'm criticizing... or, not directly at least.

I could be wrong, but I read that as you get a certain amount of transactions at a single time. Once it sells, it resets.

"... we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account." There's no way that's what they meant, this implies they're waiving the fee for a set number of overall transactions per account, or in other words giving people a "free trial" of the paid AH. Also, if that's the case, then what of that whole "discouraging big sales" thing? This would be absurdly easy to exploit with dupe accounts, which gold sellers won't be wanting for.

I can't say with certainty that this will solve anything. And to be really ****ing clear to you, I know my perspective isn't Blizzard's and I could be totally off the mark with this. I just see a very strong attempt to squash gold selling.
The benefits being: (HOPEFULLY)
1. You can have public games and meet new people without some jackass joining your game and spamming about WWW.DIABLO2ITEMSFORSALEJUSTNEEDYOUTOBENDOVER.COM
2. You can use the auction house without prices being jacked up insanely high because of out-of-game selling.
The downsides:
1. You might be tempted to use the gold/currency auction house and lose a willpower roll.

I'd be willing to grant your first one, unless you're able to search auctions by name, in which case wouldn't they still want to spam about their auctions to draw attention to them? Otherwise, yeah, that would be a nice side benefit for the rest of us. The second one is nice, but it's still catering to people who have, up until now, been going against Blizzard's own terms. They'll still be gaming the system, only now they'll be doing so with Blizzard's blessing. Cool?

I don't know, maybe my objections are largely sentimental, I just feel like it cheapens the whole thing for the rest of us. Yeah, it happens anyway, but there is a difference between exploiting back channels and going against the rules to do this sort of thing and the developers themselves actively embracing it. I just feel a little ambivalent that Blizzard is capitalizing on something that they fought so long to stamp out under the pretense that they were doing so for the benefit of theirs games and the loyal customers who played them. Now they're okay with it as long as they're turning a profit? Yeah, it doesn't seem right.

 

[Eejit]

You can choose to play this game like a job or you can choose to play this game like a game.

You could easily play through Diablo 2 and never trade a single thing. Believe it or not the old way of trading was hard and tedious. In diablo 3 there is a normal gold based auction house. Why assumes that everyone will be posting items only in the currency based auction house? Not everyone will be interested in doing that. People who don't have money will not participate in it. Those people are just as likely to find something valuable.

Strawman. Show me where anyone makes that assumption. It may be the issue we're talking about, that doesn't mean we think it will be universally applicable.

 

[Letters]

Between this and the "PvP" interview I watched the other day (direct quote on the subject of balance: "screw you, PvP guy" ... yeah, well **** you too), I don't think I'm interested in this anymore.