DICE 2009: Valve View on DRM and Pirates

[G(ordon)-man]

Spore is the best example of a DRM gone wrong.

 

[No Limit]

How many people out there play games on a semi-modern to modern computer and don't have even the most rudimentary access to the internet?

I'm sure there are people out there with no internet, actually I know there are because I know quite a few of them. Poor college kids don't like to spend money on the internet yet might still like to play half life 2 which can be bought for $4.99, they are SOL.

It is not like it is unheard of for games to require an internet connection as part of publishers DRM strategies. Spore, Bioshock and Mass Effect all required an internet connection to complete installation for example and some required a consistent internet connection for "re-authentication". And yeah there was a mass backlash against it. When was the last mass backlash against Steam? Must have been 5 years ago I reckon when, by all accounts I've heard, Steam was buggy and slow.

In bioshock's case I believe that DRM was removed after numerous complaints. But you are trying to argue that 2 wrongs make it right, they don't. And in the case of steam you do have to be constantly connected to the internet from what I understand. Sure they have offline mode but from what I understand once a new steam update comes out you have to download that update before the game will work (if I am wrong on this please correct me). In none of those cases (again correct me if Im wrong, I never played these games) you do not have to register an account online and give up any kind of personal information.

Valve have already addressed this concern. There is an update sitting on their hard drives that permanently disables Steam's need to contact their servers. Thus if the worst comes to worst Valve's last act would be to allow Steam to run independently from Valve.

Really? Then why don't they change their terms and back up what they promised legally? Because according to the contract you sign with them when you install the game that is not the case. If their servers go down for good they are under no obligation to release any kind of update to make the games work. In fact as someone that has done quite a bit of programming myself the concept that they would have an update ready to address this seems extremely unrealistic as someone would have to test that update with whatever the current version of steam happens to be at that time before that update can be rolled out. If Valve is out of business there will be no testers to do that. Do you have a source for this claim?

Your definitions are incorrect.
That just means that it isn't an optional value added feature.

I work in the hardware industry, to me value added is something additional and optional a company adds. But this is a silly thing to argue about, I think you make a valid point.

 

[ríomhaire]

I play Valve games in spite of Steam. On the week ends I have dial-up, the rest of the week I have no internet where I live and in college I can access the internet, but only through browsers and MSN, other programmes cannot. To get access to broadband for Steam I must drive to a friend's house or pay in an internet caf?. Steam is the biggest pain in the ass for me in terms of playing games. It took me two days to get the Orange Box working.

 

[Operational]

I'm sure there are people out there with no internet, actually I know there are because I know quite a few of them. Poor college kids don't like to spend money on the internet yet might still like to play half life 2 which can be bought for $4.99, they are SOL.

Indeed they are, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a minority.

In bioshock's case I believe that DRM was removed after numerous complaints.

You still need an Internet connection to finish installing.

But you are trying to argue that 2 wrongs make it right, they don't.

I'm trying to argue that for better or worse DRM is the norm and that DRM needing the Internet isn't uncommon and that in light of that Steam's benefits balances (some might say surpasses) it's limitations.

And in the case of steam you do have to be constantly connected to the internet from what I understand. Sure they have offline mode but from what I understand once a new steam update comes out you have to download that update before the game will work (if I am wrong on this please correct me).

You are wrong, once in offline mode Steam doesn't connect to Valve at all and so is unaware of any updates made since entering offline mode.

In none of those cases (again correct me if Im wrong, I never played these games) you do not have to register an account online and give up any kind of personal information.

What "personal information" does Steam make you give up?

Really? Then why don't they change their terms and back up what they promised legally?

In my experience Terms of Service are there to tell you what you can't do not what they promise to do. But I feel that is moot point for a number of reasons.

1. If Valve goes out of business, who are you going to sue for breaking the contract?
2. Steam is big enough that it isn't going to disappear anytime soon.
3. There is a high chance that if Valve went out of business they would sell Steam to a third party and the service would continue.
4. Companies just don't look at the books one day and say, "OMG we have no money". They would have time to prepare.
5. Even if that wasn't the case ex-Valve employees with a sense of responsibility would finish the No-Valve patch or at least release the source code allowing the community to finish it.

Do you have a source for this claim?

I originally looked for one to check my wording, but I couldn't find it.

Edit: "We've tested disabling authentication and it works." - Gabe Newell.

 

[Superunknown]

Nice straw man argument. No, if EA releases their games on a bloated piece of shit for minimal benefit to the consumer, then that wouldn't be OK. However, this isn't the case for Steam, it offers very large benefits and could only be described as bloated if you're living in the Pentium 4 era.

I'm still living in the Pentium 4 era and Steam isn't causing me any trouble.

I'm a startup control Nazi and given the number of games run through Steam and how solid the program is, it really, really does that bother me that it runs in the background. You could even--now get this--not run Steam until you need it, and if it somehow degrades your machine's performance when gaming, you have some bigger issues to deal with.

Steam is DRM done right, and railing against it for the sake of railing against DRM does a disservice to anyone who's sick of the crap we've been offered from other "solutions." You can't possibly tell me Macrovision and Valve are remotely similar.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

The only issue i have with Steam is the unreliability of offline mode. So many times when i've lost my internet connection only to be told i need to be online before i can use offline mode, thus locking me out of my games. When i lost my Internet connection for a month i made sure offline mode was working before i lost it, only 3 days after i do lose my internet connection Steam wants to go online refusing to start offline. Atleast with Securom once i've activated that's it, i don't have to worry about being online again.

 

[Oreolek]

Steam is useless offline.
You just CAN'T play Valve games without internet connection.
That means, for people without good and cheap internet, Valve games are crap.
That is the price of Steam. And this is where retail copies and piracy get a HUGE advantage.

 

[Sheepo]

Steam is useless offline.
You just CAN'T play Valve games without internet connection.
That means, for people without good and cheap internet, Valve games are crap.
That is the price of Steam. And this is where retail copies and piracy get a HUGE advantage.

I just can't take you seriously when you're wearing that eye patch.