Did soliders in Vietnam die in vain?

[No Limit]

Of ****ing course! :hmph:

I am watching CNN right now and they are saying our veterans are offended by this statement made in last nights democratic debate. How ****ing stupid are the people in this country that they are "offended" by this statement. We lost the war in Vietnam, nothing good came from it, so all the dead there died in vain? Why is this so complicated for this country's population to understand?

 

[co05]

Bah, people are offended by a lot these days. I think some people just don't want to hear the truth.

 

[Krynn72]

STFU! I am OFFENDED that you would say we lost the Vietnam War!

 

[Pulse]

Denial much?

 

[Gunner]

They lost, but they had a great K/D ratio!

 

[Spoonoop]

I can understand the actual veterans being offended, but as for the rest of the population...

 

[Vigilante]

Blame the French for the Vietnam war.

 

[Pulse]

If only Starcraft had been invented then.

 

[Asknoone]

I love offending people. I set out to do it as much as possible; the more the merrier.

 

[jverne]

STFU! I am OFFENDED that you would say we lost the Vietnam War!

You shut up, i find the word "Offensive" offensive.

 

[leib10]

Only the dead and their fellow soldiers can judge if they died in vain.

 

[No Limit]

Only the dead and their fellow soldiers can judge if they died in vain.

Why?

Should we be calling john edwards (john edwards the biggest douchebag in the universe as opposed to the presidential candidate) so we could talk to them?

 

[Dog--]

Why?

Should we be calling john edwards (john edwards the biggest douchebag in the universe as opposed to the presidential candidate) so we could talk to them?

Is that the guy on South Park who was awarded "Biggest Douchbag in the Universe"?

For those of you thinking I'm lying, it's a real episode.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Blame the French for the Vietnam war.

Well actually the blame would really lie with the US for supplying the Viet Mihn during WWII, who promptly turned their American weapons on the French when they returned after WWII. And, with their shiny new weapons, were able to defeat the French who were still recovering from the ravages of war leading to the splitting of Vietnam (and the deviding of Indochina as a whole into several smaller states) into the communist north and capitalist south, leading to the formation of the NVA and the begining of the second Indochina war.

So you can blame the US for supplying the VM, or the Japanese for not destroying enough of their equipment or the US for not giving the French enough support in the first Indochina war.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, they would probubly argue that the servicemen who died during the Indochina conflicts (It wasn't just the Americans there after all.) that they died fighting for the freedom of the people of South Vietnam and that although the war was lost, that sacrifice is not by default in vain as for a time it preserved "freedom" for the people of south Vietnam and showed the world that the US and her allies would stand against Communist aggression.

 

[leib10]

Why?

Should we be calling john edwards (john edwards the biggest douchebag in the universe as opposed to the presidential candidate) so we could talk to them?

I don't understand that statement.

Is that the guy on South Park who was awarded "Biggest Douchbag in the Universe"?

For those of you thinking I'm lying, it's a real episode.

Yes, there is an episode entitled that. Episode 615, I believe it was.

 

[Krynn72]

Well actually the blame would really lie with the US for supplying the Viet Mihn during WWII, who promptly turned their American weapons on the French when they returned after WWII. And, with their shiny new weapons, were able to defeat the French who were still recovering from the ravages of war leading to the splitting of Vietnam (and the deviding of Indochina as a whole into several smaller states) into the communist north and capitalist south, leading to the formation of the NVA and the begining of the second Indochina war.

Sounds vaguely similar to another, more recent war.

Also, dont tell me to shut up jverne. Thats offensive.

 

[staticprimer]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, they would probubly argue that the servicemen who died during the Indochina conflicts (It wasn't just the Americans there after all.) that they died fighting for the freedom of the people of South Vietnam and that although the war was lost, that sacrifice is not by default in vain as for a time it preserved "freedom" for the people of south Vietnam and showed the world that the US and her allies would stand against Communist aggression.

"Fighting for freedom" is not a phrase I would apply to the reasons for South Vietnam's cause in the war. Capitalists are not inherently free and communists are not inherently enslaved. In the case of North Vietnam Ho Chi Minh was not democratically elected, but he was massively popular throughout North Vietnam, as well as in the countryside in the South. I don't mean to condone anything Ho Chi Minh did, because he was responsible for many atrocities, however the fact remains he was extremely popular. In South Vietnam, all of the leaders before and during the war were puppets of the US government. Every one of them, at least a half dozen during the course of the war, were hand picked by the US. All of them were unpopular, incompetent, corrupt, and at least one, Ngo Dinh Diem, was literally psychotic. The little support they did have came from the wealthy (comparatively) elite inside the cities. This is why the NVA and VC troops were so hard to demoralize, while at the same time the ARVN rarely, if ever, had any morale to speak of. Simply put, North Vietnam and the peasants of South Vietnam had a reason for fighting, while South Vietnam did not.

Now as to the direct question at hand, the American soldiers in Vietnam did die in vain because beyond the first year of the 'official' war, by far the largest reason for continued presence there was to avoid the embarrassment of withdrawal. They died trying to stop something that their leaders knew was inevitable anyway.

 

[15357]

Ours didn't; by giving their lives, they assured the modernization of my country. The US paid us a huge amount of money to get our troops into Vietnam, and we used that to become what we are now.

Besides, our troops became legendary in combat.

 

[Jintor]

Legendary and mostly dead.

 

[Gray Fox]

I love offending people. I set out to do it as much as possible; the more the merrier.

You should really do something about that, because you're a pretty horrible person.

 

[Kyorisu]

The withdrawal from Vietnam is what happens when you don't incorporate a countries moral into it's ability to defend itself. Bravo American statistitions your system was flawed

 

[NeptuneUK]

Besides, our troops became legendary in combat.

Most certainly became legends. The rest may have survived

 

[The Monkey]

Fun fact: Nearly twice as many French soldiers died in the First Indochina War (1946-1954) compared to Americian soldiers in the Vietnam War (1959-1975).

 

[Pulse]

Fun fact: Nearly twice as many French soldiers died in the First Indochina War (1946-1954) compared to Americian soldiers in the Vietnam War (1959-1975).

Hardly surprising is it?

 

[The Monkey]

Hardly surprising is it?

No, but it's not something you hear much about these days.

 

[Jintor]

But who cares about the French?

 

[leib10]

I once read a book about ex-SS men in the French Foreign Legion in Indochina. Although there is substantial evidence that ex-SS men did serve in Indochina, I'm not completely sure about the truthfulness of the book, called Devil's Guard.

Either way, most of the combat and tactics sounded plausible, but some of the body counts seemed a bit exaggerated. Also, there was no record of a battalion comprised of Germans only (although the French could've removed this record to avoid the embarassment).

If the story was true, they were truly ingenious fighters.

 

[15357]

Legendary and mostly dead.

Most certainly became legends. The rest may have survived

If you go to Vietnam, they still sing songs about the Korean phantoms that slaughtered hundreds of troops and wiped out entire villages. :/

 

[Jintor]

If you go to Vietnam, they still sing songs about the Korean phantoms that slaughtered hundreds of troops and wiped out entire villages. :/

Be proud of your slaughtering menfolk. The government told them to do it.

 

[Warbie]

They lost, but they had a great K/D ratio!

That's a win in my book!

 

[15357]

Be proud of your slaughtering menfolk. The government told them to do it.

Well yeah, my grandfather was a regimental commander in vietnam, and was in the Blue Dragon Unit, iirc. Awesome K/D ratio, a squad of 12 killed about a hundred vietcong.

 

[CptStern]

a marketing firm would literally kill to discover a way of duplicating the programming that left Numbers an unblinking automaton who if asked to throw his life away on some trivial state related matter his response would, nay could, only be "how soon?"

 

[Mr-Fusion]

a marketing firm would literally kill to discover a way of duplicating the programming that left Numbers an unblinking automaton who if asked to throw his life away on some trivial state related matter his response would, nay could, only be "how soon?"

Just bribe doctors to repeatedly drop babies on their head when they're born and we'll have citizens as silly as numbers.

 

[Absinthe]

Yes, they died in vain.

South Vietnam fell under the VC, god damn it. There was rarely, if ever, a sight of victory on the horizon. And in terms of a battle for freedom, it failed miserably because the corrupt leadership of South Vietnam itself - the government we were trying to preserve - was cruel, oppressive, and often psychotic. I'm all for respecting veterans, but they are simply wrong if they deny the futility of that conflict.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

If there were really cool vietnam war games, then maybe their deaths were justified. At least there's some cool ww2 games.


YOUR TURN TO RAPE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

 

[15357]

a marketing firm would literally kill to discover a way of duplicating the programming that left Numbers an unblinking automaton who if asked to throw his life away on some trivial state related matter his response would, nay could, only be "how soon?"

Hey, look around. If you see any appliances that say "Made in Korea", especially Samsung, know that it was made possible by the blood of our soldiers in Vietnam.

 

[The Monkey]

How was South Korea threatened by South Vietnam falling under communist leadership? Your country only joined the war to gain higher status in the eyes of the Americans.

 

[kirovman]

South Korea, at the time was a military dictatorship. Ah, fun times.

 

[15357]

How was South Korea threatened by South Vietnam falling under communist leadership? Your country only joined the war to gain higher status in the eyes of the Americans.

Yeah, and money.


LOTS of money. Money that was used to build highways, harbors, airports, heavy industries, M16s, etc.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I am watching CNN right now and they are saying our veterans are offended by this statement made in last nights democratic debate. How ****ing stupid are the people in this country that they are "offended" by this statement. We lost the war in Vietnam, nothing good came from it, so all the dead there died in vain? Why is this so complicated for this country's population to understand?

I don't think that they died in vain, so it's not complicated for me to understand. So why are you acting like they just pooped in your cereal?