Did the Twin Towers collapse due to demolition?

[Raziaar]

I don't see how that could make the whole ****ING thing fall down?!?!

It's the cardhouse effect. The metal reinforcement beams bend and sag under the stress of the weight above it, because the fires are softening the material. There's TREMENDOUS weight on the floors above the explosion impacts, and that is constantly bearing down, bearing down. Eventually, something has to give, and when it does, a chain reaction occurs. Something bends and snaps, then something else adjacent to it does, and with the extra weight on those sides, the weight in other areas start to follow in suit, until the whole floor is crumpled and ALL that weight above is falling and crushing the floors beneath it.

Just like you build a cardhouse, even if its very well designed, a couple of cards falling apart on the top can send the whole thing crashing down.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Much like a poorly-constructed conspiracy theory.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Who would have guessed that weakening the supports on the world's tallest building would make it fall down??
It boggles the mind!

Why on earth wouldn't the government cover up footage after it was recorded live by basically every major news network and seen by millions?
Obviously that plan makes sense!!

Don't stop now kids! The internet has many more tales to tell!

Lizards from space live beneath the seas!
Dolphins have psychic powers and fight science!
The devil lives inside our "rock music"!
Robot Jews control the world economy!

It's a crazyhouse and we're living in it, so just shut off your ability to reason and copy/paste that html code straight onto your brain.
Remember: religion is protected by law, so don't compromise yourself by making logical sense!

 

[Lemonking]

well said Pi,I mean arent we lucky it didnt fall 2 the side? imagine if something like that happend....

 

[Raziaar]

well said Pi,I mean arent we lucky it didnt fall 2 the side? imagine if something like that happend....

LOL, I thought you were responding to my card house theory.

ANyways, it very well could have fallen to the side. They're constructed to demolish veritcally like they did, but when the planes impacted, the towers swayed SIGNIFICANTLY to the side, I think beyond the point that skyscrapers are naturally designed to, to meet the effects of wind power.

Who knows how much further they'd of had to lean to topple, at least a good portion, onto the surrounding buildings. Obiously, no sort of complete horizontal collapse would of happened, but the tops of the towers could have broken apart and crumbled down hundreds of feet away from the base.

At least, I think so.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Before any conspiracy guys jump on that, I might as well point out that there was nowhere near enough sideways force applied to send the mass of the towers hurtling anywhere but straight down.

 

[Raziaar]

Before any conspiracy guys jump on that, I might as well point out that there was nowhere near enough sideways force applied to send the mass of the towers hurtling anywhere but down.

Correct, but the towers DID sway beyond the point they're naturally designed to go from wind effects.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I love crazy theories - fun to read, then to dismiss heh.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Same here badgey, but I gotta admit that it's also somewhat depressing.
You can almost hear the basic elements of rational thought pleading for help as they are repeatedly brutalized. :O

 

[Ome_Vince]

hehe, generally i'd like to think the "other way" and try to get ways of "how would they do it" etc.
If it was controlled demolisions:

-Very very crappy performed. Why not let the demolishen go off 1-2-3-4 instead of all at once making the thing collapse straight down? Let them go off with 2 minute interpauses in which the structure would collapse side-ways or whatever.
Then it would look realistic to the billions + conspiracy theorists all over the world who are watching it live would "believe" it..

-Try to get an organisation of Americans (in this time so not 100 years ago) willing to blow up 3000 Americans to justify invasions in other countries?
And better, that go home and sleep nicely with not 1 opening his/her mouth.

-The realism part. If it was/is a fake, why o why perform it so bad. If you want to pull the hoax of the century, you dont prepare yourself with "oeps"..

Its kind of like that Apollo landing. How the **** would the USA, if it was filmed in Nevada or whatever just; "OEPS we forgot to turn on the star lights".
Considering nobody during the shooting + afterwards while preparing the film would have "noticed this". And think about the fact that the NASA guys would know "best" how these sort of things work...

In short it just doesnt add up. I've heard conspiracy theorists coming with all kinds of stuff which sounds great but just doesnt make sense.
Why would "whoever is behind it" mount a missile under the plane hoping none of the Millions of Newyorkers would notice it (hence after plane 1 everybody was watching).
Thats a pretty freekin big risk to take...
Why would controlled demolisions bring down the WTC perfectly, hoping nobody would notice it as strange?
Why would they then fly a military scout drone over hundreds of thousands of people in broad daylight to fly into the pentagon, hoping nobody will notice?
And see it as a commercial plane? lol
Why would they crash a small plane and/or nothing into a forrest and say "hey world press here's where the other plane crashed in the ground" -> showing a small hole with a little debris.
Just buy some scrapheap commercial jets and rig those up, it costs less and is much more effective, and i assume im not Einstein for figuring that out..
I believe in idiots but not on such a scale for such things..

 

[ComradeBadger]

Same here badgey, but I gotta admit that it's also somewhat depressing.
You can almost hear the basic elements of rational thought pleading for help as they are repeatedly brutalized. :O

It's only depressing when you realise that some people who want somewhere to shift the blame believe these crazies.

 

[kaf11]

Much like a poorly-constructed conspiracy theory.

Zing!!

 

[D€vIL²]

Ok, though I am still sticking to the possibility that this was a controlled operation by a specific group of people in our government. lets say that yes "Terrorist" hit the towers and did make them collapse as a result. Why didn't we prevent it when the government had foreknowledge?

 

[D€vIL²]

It's the cardhouse effect. The metal reinforcement beams bend and sag under the stress of the weight above it, because the fires are softening the material. There's TREMENDOUS weight on the floors above the explosion impacts, and that is constantly bearing down, bearing down. Eventually, something has to give, and when it does, a chain reaction occurs. Something bends and snaps, then something else adjacent to it does, and with the extra weight on those sides, the weight in other areas start to follow in suit, until the whole floor is crumpled and ALL that weight above is falling and crushing the floors beneath it.

Just like you build a cardhouse, even if its very well designed, a couple of cards falling apart on the top can send the whole thing crashing down.

I can't compare The WTC to a house made of cards...

 

[baxter]

Ok, though I am still sticking to the possibility that this was a controlled operation by a specific group of people in our government. lets say that yes "Terrorist" hit the towers and did make them collapse as a result. Why didn't we prevent it when the government had foreknowledge?

You are correct the US did ignore many warnings of this attack.Countries sush as Germany, Italy, Britian, Jordan, India, Egypt, Russia, Morocco, Israel and France had issued warnings to the US prior to this attack. Why did they ignore them? Maybe because they were stupid.

source

Or maybe that's what they want us to think, maybe they knew it was coming all the along and decided "hey cheers for the warning guys, but we've decided to give them a helping hand by planting shed loads of explosives in the towers ourselves and just to round off the day we've decided to fire off a few of our own missiles at our own buildings"

Emm... maybe they were just stupid.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Where is the option for people who do not take sides because there is not enough evidence to support either theory?
--

I think a question was raised to the felling of the buildings and any purpose relating, I believe if the buildings had not fallen, the attempt would have been deemed unsuccessful.

Imagine striking a blow to America by defacing the Statue of Liberty.
Ok so you made your point and were recognized, but the statue stands and can be refaced.
The effort is then completely wasted.

The only alternative is a failsafe, permanent impact on society and that requires the complete destruction of a symbol of that nation.

Assuming the bad guys had any knowledge of the buildings (and outright brains), they would have made a contingency plan, which is entirely plausible.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

You know what? We do need a middle side ...

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

EDIT: Besides, if it was a controlled explosion it wouldn't have fallen like that or taken so long to fall.

Controlled demolition is practiced all the time and downloadable footage can be found all over the place.

The collapse of each of the 3 towers that fell, fell in exactly the same controlled fashion with the confined area of their perimiter.

---
Oh, and the length of time is irrellevant. Bombs could be set of at any time.
The speed at which the towers collapsed however works against the current supported theories, thx.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The collapse of each of the 3 towers that fell, fell in exactly the same controlled fashion with the confined area of their perimiter.

Ever topple a stack of bricks with enough weight over them. ... Uh ... wait a moment.

Okay. Here's a thought. How come the "demolition" then occured so far up?
If its true.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Ever topple a stack of bricks with enough weight over them. ... Uh ... wait a moment.

Okay. Here's a thought. How come the "demolition" then occured so far up?
If its true.

I am confused to what you are saying. I've never toppled bricks over.
--
EDIT: You are asking how the demolition could occur so far up? The charges, if they existed, were planted there. The question I cannot answer is how they could have been planted there, only speculate security was compromise and add that in my experience it is not that hard to compromise government run facilities given certain circumstances.
---
Replying to a concern stating the towers fell with a cardhouse, domino-like effect, refer to the link in the other thread. It clearly explains that as impossible due to the fact the tower used as example fell in 9.22 seconds.

The building fell uniformly as I keep saying over and over, as if the bottom had suddenly disappeared. This can only be attributed to the total and complete failure of the primary support column, which is next to impossible to do near the top of the building.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I think you're trying say that they had to have blown up the bottom and anything else is impossible?

If that's the case: Why would they blow up the bottom at all?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Was BU$HY just impatient so he decided to compromise the entire plan to make the towers fall a second faster?
Or maybe whatever source it is telling you that it's impossible fails at math.

Please, please, please think these things through. It saves everyone else the time of having to think for you.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Ok, though I am still sticking to the possibility that this was a controlled operation by a specific group of people in our government. lets say that yes "Terrorist" hit the towers and did make them collapse as a result. Why didn't we prevent it when the government had foreknowledge?

Mostly because they receive thousands of potential threats a day and most of them dont have enough credibility to follow or dont seem to be a realistic imminent threat.

You conspiracy theorists still have yet to dig up anything that resembles a supporting fact.

 

[Raziaar]

I can't compare The WTC to a house made of cards...

Why not? The concepts are very similiar. Failure leading to further failure, until everything fails. A chain reaction of disaster.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I think you're trying say that they had to have blown up the bottom and anything else is impossible?

If that's the case: Why would they blow up the bottom at all?

Was BU$HY just impatient so he decided to compromise the entire plan to make the towers fall a second faster?
Or maybe whatever source it is telling you that it's impossible fails at math.

Please, please, please think these things through. It saves everyone else the time of having to think for you.

Do you just read what you want and ignore everything else or what?

 

[63]

I don't know what to believe. I've seen all the videos supporting both sides, but I just can't imagine Bush/government/jesus/whoever taking the risk of blowing up their own towers.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I don't know what to believe. I've seen all the videos supporting both sides, but I just can't imagine Bush/government/jesus/whoever taking the risk of blowing up their own towers.

Its complete crap...ask the conspiracy theorists to bring up supporting facts and they cant. All they base their nonsense off of are what they see as un answered questions. These individuals have a hard time dealing with reality and hence look into events and cant grasp onto all of the minor details as it doesnt make sense to them and they fabricate a theory from those loopholes.

It is all just a bunch of garbage. That is why these theories remain theories. They have no facts to prove them.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Funny how we have like 2 topics, 2 discussions about the same subject, this is getting confusing.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I don't see how it can be dismissed as nonsense when there has been a peer-reviewed (which means it was reviewed by credible people in the scientific community, including physicists and engineers, and not found to be inappropriate) paper by a physics professor with a PhD, Steven E. Jones. In fact, Jones has done extensive work in fusion, and is in part responsible for demonstrating what became known as muon-catalyzed fusion. This is relevant, because of the observed effects in the wreckage of the towers, and Jones's specialization in metal-catalyzed fusion. As of yet, I haven't seen anyone provide a scientific explanation to counter Jones's points.

Yep...they have said these theories are appropriate..in that they aren't totally complete nonsensical crap and that there may be some question to these. They didn't say whether or not it was true, just that these theories do have some un answered questions but still no facts.

Again, I still generally hold the view that the planes were solely responsible, although I am much less sure given the recent scientific analysis. In any case, I am left to wonder why everyone is so quick to spew vitriolic and largely unsubstantiated attacks. If these really are just wacko conspiracy theories, then it shouldn't take much to break them apart. As Einstein said in reply to a book called 100 Authors Against Einstein, "If I were wrong, one would be enough."

Because if your trying to prove something people generally use supporting facts, not questions they can't answer and fabricate a theory from it. Also...read the thread most all of the points have been refuted over and over or have been invalidated in some way or another, its just people clinging to this nonsensical crap.

 

[Solaris]

I think we should look at building seven, it's quite relevant.

 

[63]

I think we should look at building seven, it's quite relevant.

Yeah, WTC7 is the one that really looked like a controlled demolition. The bottom floors just collapsed.

 

[baxter]

Professor Steven E. Jones has not even followed the scientific method to present his theory. No other professor in the world has corroborated his findings; no peer review has even been conducted. His theory flies in the face of every investigation ever conducted. No scientific journal will even publish his theory.

He is like the soldier who is marching in the opposite direction from his platoon thinking that everyone else is going the wrong way but him.

Oh Dear,what a lonely voice this is.......****ing idiot.

source

 

[Solaris]

Theories without facts? I suggest you read up on what a scientific theory is. However, Jones's paper doesn't present a theory anyway...it presents a hypothesis. Again, I suggest you read up on what that is. I also suggest that you actually read Jones's paper.



Scientific theories can never be proven, and neither can scientific hypotheses. Hypotheses try to explain phenomenon by using logic, facts and tests. Jones's hypothesis came about as a result of research into the inconsistencies between the official report and actual observations. The hypothesis came from the research, not vice versa. Also, questions based on logic and facts are very much valid. Where do you think we would be if when someone asked "Why do objects fall to the ground?” everyone said "Because God makes it happen, you wacko conspiracy nut!"? Science is about questions leading to hypothesis, not coming up with some random idea and then proving it. Hypotheses are supposed to come from unanswered questions (if there are no unanswered questions, there is no need for a hypothesis).

Also, I have read both this and the other thread, and have not seen these points which are supposed to have refuted or invalidated the hypothesis. In fact, I see few people even using logic and facts to attempt to disprove the hypothesis.

Your sir are an idiot.

 

[Yuri]

I hope that someone personally flies planes into every single one of your homes, so that other assholes can later say that the government blew them up because you "knew too much."

Go f*ck yourselves.

 

[UltraProAnti]

Do you just read what you want and ignore everything else or what?

i was wondering the same thing myself

 

[Yuri]

You know, I equate this sort of bull-f*cking-shit to Holocaust denying. I really feel sick.

Did any of you watch the planes fly in? Any single one of you moronish motherf*ckers? Were you there, in NYC, when they flew INTO the buildings?

I wasn't. You weren't. But a few of my friends were. One in particular.

If I could see any of you, I would spit in your eyes. I don't give a flying f*ck how many extra grey pixels were on the bottom of the planes. I don't give a flying f*ck about why you people think you can "prove" that buildings don't fall down like that. I don't give a flying f*ck why the Pentagon took away any photos of the plane that flew into it (because, out of all the goddamn crackpot theories, that one is the most obviously stupid) You all make me sick, and I was NOT just kidding with my post earlier. I will laugh on the day that a plane lands straight on your face so I can say that you were killed in a controlled demolition conspiracy.

Thousands of people died, and all you assholes can say is that "Bush did it LOL!" None of the evidence I have ever seen comes anything close to being incriminating. Which leads me to believe that if you spew this shit out your mouth, you're an attention-seeking piece of dog shit.

 

[baxter]

Oh yes, we all know how reliable random religious bloggers called Ken are, now don't we? What credibility does this guy have? Where is he getting his information? How come in his argument about how the buildings fell he only factors in gravity, and not the force of the building itself pushing up on the collapsing section? (This last one I'm guessing is due to his lack of understanding of basic Newtonian physics. He probably believes in Intelligent Falling instead. )

Also, Jones is by no means "alone".

Of course you are correct after all who would look at the thoughts on a blog compared to an eminent professor. Also in light of all the people you have put forward that have questioned the NIST report it's silly that anybody would take these thoughts seriously isn't it?

So which one of these people actually supports Professor Steven E. Jones?
Which one as actually corroborated his findings?
Which scientific journal has published his theory?

Oh, none of them. Would you like to put forward the name of a single scientist that supports this man rather than people who simply question the NIST and FEMA reports?

This professor now tours the US giving lectures on his theories and oh what a wiz that must be, as the cash comes in to fund his book that is being published. He is shunned by the entire scientific community; don't believe me simply offer up a single name that supports him.

The blog I quoted is dubious to say the least, the facts are not, if you care to offer up anything other than" Oh he's a professor of Physics so me must be right" to support him please do.

His theories are akin to the piece of a jigsaw that simply will not fit into the big picture, no matter which way you turn it. No matter how you cut it, this piece simply will not go into the bigger picture. The only conclusion is the piece is rotten or the bigger picture is incorrect.

I feel sorry for anybody who follows this guy and I feel sorry because the conspirators feel it has given them some sort of credibility. He hasn’t and they have not.

 

[63]

Would you like to put forward the name of a single scientist that supports this man

Here is a list.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhoAreWe.html

 

[TheAmazingRando]

You guys are all wrong! The Combine teleported the Twin Towers and the planes to a parallel dimension and replaced them with rubble from a construction site! All the bodies where just holograms! All those people are being turned into Combine Soldiers in preparation for the Invasion! We are all gonna die!

 

[baxter]

Here is a list.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhoAreWe.html

http://www.icq.com/groups/browse_folder.php?tid=4489

Here is a forum for discussing alien abduction it has 261 members........so it must be true

 

[TheAmazingRando]

http://www.icq.com/groups/browse_folder.php?tid=4489

Here is a forum for discussing alien abduction it has 261 members........so it must be true

Once again, The Combine obviously did it.