Difference between combine/human teleports

[Piers89]

could someone explain the differences between them for me, tried searching couldnt find anything

 

[TugruL]

Answer

Well, Combine teleport system is more crappy and takes long time to warm up.But it can teleport you to another dimension(s) or something.

But Human teleport is more easy since it needs little power (How much power can Kliner's lab can use anyway?)and quick.But sh*t happens when a headcrab jumps inside it :flame:

Oh and first post by the way (I almost forgot )

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Humans can teleport locally, IE from point A to point B within the same universe, whereas Combine cannot. They can only tunnel from one dimension to another, and then at enormous energy costs. Xen acts as a slingshot for local teleportation, which is why many races hid there from combine opression, since the combine cannot go there.

 

[Druckles]

If you played Episode Two and recall the super portal, compare that to the glowing green balls that a related to Xen and used frequently in Half-Life 1 and twice in Half-Life 2.

That's the difference in appearance.

 

[Piers89]

ah right, thanks for the responses

next question, if the combine are so advance and can even tunnel through dimensions, then how come they cant figure out how to use local portals like so many other alien races can, i mean in other aspects like weapons, flight systems etc humans are nowhere near the combine, yet we discovered how to create/use these local portals on our own...

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I suppose they may not have needed local teleportation. The most important one is teleporting though other dimensions, as that takes the longest. And that's something humans have not even begun to master.

 

[Piers89]

yes but dont the combine want to know about our teleportation methods because theirs are so inefficient, im sure that was mentioned at some point

 

[TugruL]

Yes they want to know.Remember Mossman at HL2 when she said something about that.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

yes but dont the combine want to know about our teleportation methods because theirs are so inefficient, im sure that was mentioned at some point

That's kinda why they're on Earth to begin with.

 

[Druckles]

I suppose they may not have needed local teleportation. The most important one is teleporting though other dimensions, as that takes the longest. And that's something humans have not even begun to master.

No, that's something we've managed to do to greater effect. Or so I believe. "Our" teleportation technique uses Xen as a slingshot to reach our destination. In the cases we've seen, it's used to teleport us locally, but I'm pretty sure it could be used to take us to a different dimension, like the combine's homeworld.

 

[hl_grunt]

Humans can teleport locally, IE from point A to point B within the same universe, whereas Combine cannot.

What about eli and mossman getting teleported to the citadel on the combine teleporter?

 

[kineaesth]

Read the post, hl_grunt.

Humans can teleport locally, IE from point A to point B within the same universe, whereas Combine cannot. They can only tunnel from one dimension to another, and then at enormous energy costs. Xen acts as a slingshot for local teleportation, which is why many races hid there from combine opression, since the combine cannot go there.

 

[hl_grunt]

Read the post, hl_grunt.

I did, KineticAesthetic. If I didn't understand something in that post, is it really that hard to clarify it for me? You took the time to type, why not extend it further by another five seconds and make that post useful? You know. Like in forums. Where people exchange information, questions get asked and answered and topics get discussed?

 

[kineaesth]

Hurr.

The Combine can teleport from point A on Earth to point B on earth, but, in order to do this, they have to use Xen/other dimension/universe as a relay.

Humans can teleport from A to B without needing to do this.

edit - hl_grunt.

 

[Nihilanth]

Humans CAN teleport from point A to B on Earth by using Xen as a slingshot.
Combine CANNOT teleport from point A to B on Earth, and can only teleport from one universe to another.

The Combine teleport you see Mossman use in Nova Prospekt was made by giving Eli's research to the Combine, allowing them to create a teleport of their own to teleport from point A to B on Earth.

"We are closing in on a reliable local teleport technology, something even the Combine has not mastered. Eli thinks their portals are string based, similar to our Calabi-Yau model, but they have failed to factor in the dark energy equations. They can tunnel through from their universe, but once they are here they are dependent on local transportation. If they knew what we were doing with entanglement..." -Mossman in Black Mesa East.

 

[hl_grunt]

Hurr.

The Combine can teleport from point A on Earth to point B on earth, but, in order to do this, they have to use Xen/other dimension/universe as a relay.

Humans can teleport from A to B without needing to do this.

edit - hl_grunt.

See, that was easy. Thanks.

Humans CAN teleport from point A to B on Earth by using Xen as a slingshot.
Combine CANNOT teleport from point A to B on Earth, and can only teleport from one universe to another.

The Combine teleport you see Mossman use in Nova Prospekt was made by giving Eli's research to the Combine, allowing them to create a teleport of their own to teleport from point A to B on Earth.

"We are closing in on a reliable local teleport technology, something even the Combine has not mastered. Eli thinks their portals are string based, similar to our Calabi-Yau model, but they have failed to factor in the dark energy equations. They can tunnel through from their universe, but once they are here they are dependent on local transportation. If they knew what we were doing with entanglement..." -Mossman in Black Mesa East.

Ok, now I'm confused.

 

[Druckles]

Hurr.

The Combine can teleport from point A on Earth to point B on earth, but, in order to do this, they have to use Xen/other dimension/universe as a relay.

Humans can teleport from A to B without needing to do this.

edit - hl_grunt.

That's not true...

How we teleport locally is using Xen as a rely. There is no other way of accomplishing the same effect as of yet.

There is another type of teleportation which burrows through one dimension or universe into the next. It takes time and a lot of resources. This it the technology the Combine were using to get the message home.

Humans have the local teleportation technology.

That is (one reason) why the Combine came to earth - they want it.

The teleport you see in Nova Prospekt was built by Judith Mossman.

 

[Nihilanth]

See, that was easy. Thanks.

Ok, now I'm confused.

Kinetic was, um... wrong.

 

[Laivasse]

To clarify, since there's been some confusion...

Combine portals:
Go from universe to universe. I don't know why everyone says it's crappy - it's perfectly suited to the Combine's Modus Operandi, and the time they take to charge would be usually be irrelevant to them. It's not like the Combine would be racing against the clock most of the time. Xen is not involved in this method.

Human portals:
Point A to Point B within a single universe, using Xen as a relay. Humans haven't demonstrated the ability to enter other universes with these portals yet, apart from Xen. Perhaps the reason the Combine don't have this technology is that they haven't discovered Xen, or that they know about it (like they knew about Nihilanth's existence) but they can't reach it with their tech.

By the time of HL2, the Combine CAN use the human/local teleport model because Mossman has been aiding them in secret. I doubt that the teleporter at NP is the only working one they have. Once they received the technology I don't see why they wouldn't have disseminated it quickly and started building lots of their own local teleporters in various citadels. That's why IMO any plot speculation along the lines of 'the Combine want the Borealis in order to get local teleportation tech' doesn't make sense. They have had that technology ever since Mossman sold out Eli.

 

[Druckles]

They don't have Judith, they don't have Citadels, they don't have outside contact. It's not particularly easy to make a teleport, so I doubt they made a load when they found out they could. I believe the one in Nova Prospekt was a prototype, and thus the only one around. That was destroyed by us. They no longer have the knowledge to build one, having lost both Judith and the potential prototype, so really it's not all that implausible that they still don't have the technology. Even if they had acquired it, there has been no way to get it to the "outside world".

I don't think it's local teleportation technology simply because it doesn't fit the criteria of being as epic as Eli described, nor have the same destructive potential as the Resonance Cascade. I think it's something else. Something we haven't seen. Something we can't imagine.

 

[Naph]

Big summary.
Human Portal tech use Xen as a relay.
Combine Portal don't.

 

[Druckles]

If it hasn't been stated before.

Combine Portal use Xen as a relay.

Human Portal tech don't.

...

No, seriously, are you kidding?

:|

 

[Laivasse]

They don't have Judith, they don't have Citadels, they don't have outside contact.

They don't at the end of HL2, but they did have all those things for a long time prior to that. The pacing of HL2 makes it seem like they acquired local teleportation and then the citadel blew 10 minutes later, when actually we have no idea how long they've had these things. They were certainly able to communicate between citadels and the Homeworld for a long time - at least as long as it took to construct the NP portal - sharing what they'd learned, between the time Mossman shared the tech and the time Freeman administered the smackdown. I find it hard to believe that the Combine would have been just like 'Sure, woman, I don't care how it works, just build it! And make me a sammich!', when that tech was possibly their biggest motive for being on earth in the first place.

It's not particularly easy to make a teleport, so I doubt they made a load when they found out they could. I believe the one in Nova Prospekt was a prototype, and thus the only one around.

This is indeed possible, but there's nothing to really suggest that - eg. there could have been a line from Mossman saying 'this is just a prototype.' IIRC Eli does say something like 'so this is the Combine portal', but again I don't know how HE would know there's only one. All we know is, the first Combine base we enter, there's a local teleporter there and it's up and running. Even if it was the only one IMO they have the knowledge now to build others, if they can sort out their problems on earth.

Even if they had acquired it, there has been no way to get it to the "outside world".

Again, they would have had a long time to disseminate this info.

I don't think it's local teleportation technology simply because it doesn't fit the criteria of being as epic as Eli described, nor have the same destructive potential as the Resonance Cascade. I think it's something else. Something we haven't seen. Something we can't imagine.

Agreed, that's another reason I don't subscribe to that way of thinking.

 

[Naph]

...

No, seriously, are you kidding?

:|

Shit, wrong way around.

 

[Druckles]

They don't at the end of HL2, but they did have all those things for a long time prior to that. The pacing of HL2 makes it seem like they acquired local teleportation and then the citadel blew 10 minutes later, when actually we have no idea how long they've had these things.

We know that Judith had been communicating with the combine for a long while before we arrived. They'd obviously been building it, leeching from Eli's knowledge and it was implied the Judith needed Eli to continue building it. I don't think she knew all that much.

They were certainly able to communicate between citadels and the Homeworld for a long time - at least as long as it took to construct the NP portal - sharing what they'd learned, between the time Mossman shared the tech and the time Freeman administered the smackdown.

It was implied in Episode One and Two that the only connection that the Combine have had with the outside world was through the Superportal which we proceeded to collapse. They couldn't have shared their knowledge with the Homeworld before then.

I find it hard to believe that the Combine would have been just like 'Sure, woman, I don't care how it works, just build it! And make me a sammich!', when that tech was possibly their biggest motive for being on earth in the first place.

Well they had no clue about it. That's what delegation is for. I'm sure after the prototype was completed and Judith knew what she was doing, they would have taken steps to construct more and start understanding it themselves. That's what they needed Judith for in the first place.

This is indeed possible, but there's nothing to really suggest that - eg. there could have been a line from Mossman saying 'this is just a prototype.' IIRC Eli does say something like 'so this is the Combine portal', but again I don't know how HE would know there's only one. All we know is, the first Combine base we enter, there's a local teleporter there and it's up and running. Again, they would have had a long time to disseminate this info.

We do get the impression that Nova Prospekt it kind of central to the Combine, not just "another base". I personally don't find it hard to assume it's a prototype. It makes sense, and really the Combine don't know too much about the technology. There was a reason they couldn't do it themselves.

But then we don't know. Personally I doubt that they have local tech. It's a bit like Breen being an advisor now:

Lul, you just spent several levels and possibly hours of your life attempting to destroy a portal that the Combine had and now they still had it. HAR HAR!

Oh, and you spent a whole game destroying this guy and he's still alive. HAR HAR!

Plus, we never saw any evidence of local teleports being used in Half-Life 2 after Nova Prospekt was destroyed, and there was quite a timeframe between Nova Prospekt and the end of Half-Life 2. Similarly, why would the Combine have to walk (as you see in Episode Two) if they had the local teleportation technology?

 

[Laivasse]

We know that Judith had been communicating with the combine for a long while before we arrived. They'd obviously been building it, leeching from Eli's knowledge and it was implied the Judith needed Eli to continue building it. I don't think she knew all that much.

But by the time we see it, it was complete...? Even if she needed Eli during the construction of the NP portal, by the time we've arrived on the scene Mossman must understand completely how they work, since she's been involved in building one right up until its completion.

It was implied in Episode One and Two that the only connection that the Combine have had with the outside world was through the Superportal which we proceeded to collapse. They couldn't have shared their knowledge with the Homeworld before then.

My understanding was that the superportal was the only way they had of contacting the Homeworld at the time of Ep1 and 2. Previously, they could communicate any time they wished. I always assumed that the Advisor Breen talks to at the end of HL2 is not on earth, since it tells him about preparing a host body for him yet this does not happen before he attempts to go through the portal. The portal that Breen opens clearly leads offworld, and I would assume that it's easier to communicate between dimensions than it is to physically travel. In any case, the Combine could have opened that portal to phone home (and chat about their new toy) countless times before Freeman arrives at the citadel.

Well they had no clue about it. That's what delegation is for. I'm sure after the prototype was completed and Judith knew what she was doing, they would have taken steps to construct more and start understanding it themselves. That's what they needed Judith for in the first place.

Judith's role was to convey information to the Combine from the rebels, and assist in building a teleporter - but they also had Breen, who is a scientist too, however much of a showboating opportunist he is. Anything Mossman learnt about the portal tech would have been conveyed to Breen and thence to the Combine. Mossman tries to bargain for Eli's life towards the end of HL2 not because the Combine still need him, but because she loves him - Breen wouldn't be so dismissive of Eli at the end of HL2 if his knowledge was still essential. Of course, by the time of Ep2 this has all changed again, since the stakes are different.

We do get the impression that Nova Prospekt it kind of central to the Combine, not just "another base". I personally don't find it hard to assume it's a prototype. It makes sense, and really the Combine don't know too much about the technology. There was a reason they couldn't do it themselves.

I agree that it's possibly a prototype. My stance is that you don't need a lot of working teleporters to be able to understand fully how they work, and the Combine may or may not have a lot of local teleporters, but they should certainly know how they work by this point.

Plus, we never saw any evidence of local teleports being used in Half-Life 2 after Nova Prospekt was destroyed,

We don't see them using local teleportation before NP blows either, but we know they had it. In any case, any use of that tech at that point in time would have revealed to the resistance that someone was leaking info.

...and there was quite a timeframe between Nova Prospekt and the end of Half-Life 2.

But we only see a single evening. Anyway, if all of their teleporters would operate like the local teleporter in NP then they'd be too cumbersome for large, quick movements of troops. As you say, it's very much 1st generation tech.

Similarly, why would the Combine have to walk (as you see in Episode Two) if they had the local teleportation technology?

Well the obvious reason is that all the walking forces you see in Ep2 are from C17 and its environs, and their citadel has blown. Another perfectly feasible reason, even if the citadel was still up, was that the 'dampening effect' that has screwed up all their citadels has broken their local teleporters too, if those teleporters are located inside the citadels.

Personally I doubt that they have local tech. It's a bit like Breen being an advisor now:

Lul, you just spent several levels and possibly hours of your life attempting to destroy a portal that the Combine had and now they still had it. HAR HAR!

Oh, and you spent a whole game destroying this guy and he's still alive. HAR HAR!

The difference is that while you were working explicitly to destroy Breen at the end of HL2, it was never our explicit goal either to destroy the NP portal or to prevent the Combine getting the local teleport tech. You go to NP to rescue Eli and the portal explodes as an unexpected consequence. With the local teleport tech thing... well that's a done deal from the beginning of HL2; the Combine are in on it from the point that Mossman sold out the resistance. Freeman/the player is never involved with trying to stop them getting it. Also, Breen in an advisor's body is a retarded notion supported by nothing other than a misunderstood line of dialogue, whereas the Combine's acquisition of local teleportation is actually pretty logical given that they actually built one.

 

[Druckles]

Well, I'd just like to point out that the resistance's portal was the first of its kind to actually work, and we all saw how fragile it was when Hedy launched herself into it.

I doubt the Combine had a portal before the resistance considering it was their work they were basing it from. So we can assume that the first instance of the Nova Prospekt portal being in use was when Judith used it to get to the citadel.

 

[ellimanest]

I don't see how that local teleporter could be the only one under the combine control, what use is a entrance with no exit? If it was one of a pair, and Judith didn't tell them how it worked then they would have to use the other one, assuming we completly destroyed NP. That was probably in the citadel and unless they grabbed the infomation fast then they'd be screwed. There's the one in Kleiner's lab, they would to find that first though, if Judith had told them its location it would of been raided. Maybe it was during the events of Ep.1, im sure they could squeeze its location out of some rebel.

 

[Laivasse]

I don't see how that local teleporter could be the only one under the combine control, what use is a entrance with no exit?

Well, I was thinking that at first, until i realised it's possible you don't need an exit teleporter - Freeman was teleported all over the place including outside Kliener's window without having a 2nd portal to receive him. Maybe this was just a side effect of Lamarr screwing it up, but who knows.

As for the Combine possessing Kliener's teleport now, that one is surely destroyed.

Well, I'd just like to point out that the resistance's portal was the first of its kind to actually work, and we all saw how fragile it was when Hedy launched herself into it.

I doubt the Combine had a portal before the resistance considering it was their work they were basing it from. So we can assume that the first instance of the Nova Prospekt portal being in use was when Judith used it to get to the citadel.

I seriously doubt that Mossman would have just hopped into it with Eli if it hadn't been previously tested.

You do make a good point though that the Combine's research couldn't possibly have been progressing faster than that of the rebels, and the construction itself couldn't have been much faster (although it could have been faster due to greater resources). That does make it less likely that there are many operational teleporters around.

From a research and technological standpoint, however, I believe that doesn't change the fact that by the end of HL2 the Combine should have more or less caught up with the resistance in that regard (apart from the fact that their version charges very slowly, gameplay device though that was...).

Generally: I think people overemphasize the importance of Mossman telling the player that the Combine lack local teleportation. Sure, that was true when they first got here, and it provides a motive for the Combine being on earth - but by the time Mossman is telling you this, she is lying. She must have been providing the Combine with the knowledge/knowhow of how to teleport locally for a long time, regardless of how recently they've managed to get a working implementation up.

 

[hl_grunt]

We know that Judith had been communicating with the combine for a long while before we arrived. They'd obviously been building it, leeching from Eli's knowledge and it was implied the Judith needed Eli to continue building it. I don't think she knew all that much.

Speaking of advisors and leeching from Eli's knowledge... Assuming knowledge can be leeched in that manner... ... By the end of ep2, they should fully know how the human teleportation tech works, eh?

 

[Guyenhl2net]

I wanna clarify more: What is exactly you guys mean by from one dimension to another vs A to B?
A to B it is clear and concise.
But dimension can have more broad meaning. Space dimension, time dimension? If they use dimension portal to travel from combine world from earth, what exactly is happening???
Can someone explain it more understandable way?

 

[hl_grunt]

I wanna clarify more: What is exactly you guys mean by from one dimension to another vs A to B?
A to B it is clear and concise.
But dimension can have more broad meaning. Space dimension, time dimension? If they use dimension portal to travel from combine world from earth, what exactly is happening???
Can someone explain it more understandable way?

Yeah, that's another thing I'm wondering. I have a rather simplistic understanding of the whole thing - rebel teleports are small and can teleport you somewhere else on earth. Combine teleports are huge, like the one breen was using to escape, and they can bring stuff in or out, from earth to combine worlds and other way around. If they need to travel, they're out of luck though, as they have to cover ground on foot.

 

[Druckles]

As for the Combine possessing Kliener's teleport now, that one is surely destroyed.I seriously doubt that Mossman would have just hopped into it with Eli if it hadn't been previously tested.

They put Alyx through, and we know what happened to the cat. :|

I wanna clarify more: What is exactly you guys mean by from one dimension to another vs A to B?
A to B it is clear and concise.

A to B is local like the Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device, anywhere in the same universe, essentially. Although I believe the Xenian teleportation technology could teleport to any dimension as well.

Between dimensions is like going from our world to the Combine homeworld. It can only burrow between universes and not to the same one. In this case "dimension" is beyond our typical space or time dimension. It's more between universes than anything.

 

[(SGA) Doctorwho]

Human Teleport:
-Can send a person from one teleporter to another
-Uses Xen as a slingshot: person goes from the start point set to xen for a few seconds and then is sent to
the end point.
-Quick, almost instantaneous recharge time between uses

-Combine Teleport:
-Prototype one Mossman was working on sent person from start point to endpoint by emulating
how a human Tele works but the downside is a insanely long recharge time between uses

-Dark Fusion Reactor
- From the Kleinercast in EP1 the Dark Fusion Reactor might work by punching holes through
less dimensionally stable holes in the fabric of whatever universe the Combine wish to enter.
(IE) the link between Earth and Xen caused by the Resonance Cascade was relatively small
but the DFR punched through the hole creating a hole big enough for the Combine forces to pass through en masse

 

[ríomhaire]

I think:
Combine teleports are kind of a brute force approach. They punch a hole/winden a hole that already exists from one universe to another and force their way through, which takes considerable power. They can only go from one universe to another.

The Black Mesa teleporters slip through Xen as Xen is the path of least resistance. If you want to go from one point to another in the same universe you go to Xen, slingshot around and return back to the original universe at a different place. You can also go to other universes, but you've got to go through Xen to do so. Doesn't require as much power as the Combine's.

The Xenian and Aperture Science portals are a bit more mysterious but they seem to require less power again.

 

[Van Kayne]

Almost correct: human teleports don't need another teleporter on the end, but it's much, much safer - Kleiner says something about "locking on" to the other teleporter when they try to send Gordon through. Maybe something they didn't do with the cat :\.

Let's not forget the other human teleport: the Magnussen device transporters. They need a charge-up time of about 5 seconds for a smallish, non-biological item, and seem to be able to house their power source inside that (relatively) small shell. The one they load them into at the armory didn't look any different, so I'm guessing you could also use a Magnussen transporter to send the devices back through it as well.

 

[Tenebrais]

Almost correct: human teleports don't need another teleporter on the end, but it's much, much safer - Kleiner says something about "locking on" to the other teleporter when they try to send Gordon through. Maybe something they didn't do with the cat :\.

Not to mention that when Gordon attempts to use one for the first time he gets teleported to all kinds of places, presumably due to the large piece of machinery Lamarr jumped onto swinging around.

Let's not forget the other human teleport: the Magnussen device transporters. They need a charge-up time of about 5 seconds for a smallish, non-biological item, and seem to be able to house their power source inside that (relatively) small shell. The one they load them into at the armory didn't look any different, so I'm guessing you could also use a Magnussen transporter to send the devices back through it as well.

I'd guess they're the same kind of technology. Small-scale teleports are clearly possible - in Kleiner's lab he has a mini-teleport that takes a cactus across a desk. It only takes a few seconds to operate. I'd assume the same technology is used at White Forest.