Dixie Chicks

[15357]

in·ter·na·tion·al·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ntr-nsh-n-lzm)
n.
The condition or quality of being international in character, principles, concern, or attitude.
A policy or practice of cooperation among nations, especially in politics and economic matters.

Economic matters, sure. No other comment.

that's the first thing you've ever said that rings true ..there is no "sense" in patriotism. Patriotism relies on faith, not facts

And therefore renders all of everyones arguments invalid, due to the appeal to emotion fallacy?


This is extremely hard to defend/whatever....

 

[Ludah]

Sensible? This is patriotism we're talking about. What 'sense' need to be there except that it's your country, your fatherland, the land of your forefathers and it is your duty as a proud citizen to defend it, to side with it at all costs?

What 'sense' is there in defending my country - my fatherland - the land of my forefathers at all costs if it is void of all the values I hold dear?

None.

You are senselessly defending a hunk of land mass that is absolutely meaningless to you. My place of birth and my blood ties simply numbers and names on slips of paper. I am my own man, and I choose what I want to fight for and defend.

Anything less than that is... what? Slavery to some stupid, empty force that you call patriotism? Dear sir, if that is patriotism, then it go ram itself right up somebody's ass.

 

[15357]

What 'sense' is there in defending my country - my fatherland - the land of my forefathers at all costs if it is void of all the values I hold dear?

None.

You are senselessly defending a hunk of land mass that is absolutely meaningless to you. My place of birth and my blood ties simply numbers and names on slips of paper. I am my own man, and I choose what I want to fight for and defend.

Anything less than that is... what? Slavery to some stupid, empty force that you call patriotism? Dear sir, if that is patriotism, then it go ram itself right up somebody's ass.

No sense except for the ethical reasons.

Meaningless. Meaningless. Is your house meaningless to you? Wouldn't you care if it was attacked by your uh... neighbor? Kinda the same, except its on a much greater scale and the greater good.

I wouldn't call it slavery. You have a choice, you see: love, or betray.

 

[theotherguy]

You have another choice: cooperation and friendship. Let's say instead of your neighbor attacking you or you buying alot of guns to make sure he doesn't attack, instead you share the little side yard between your homes and take turns mowing it. And if some other neighbor wants to join in, you let him, and you get a bigger plot of land which you share. You then trade each other's lawn equipment, and if some guy can't keep up with his own equipment and land, you get him a job at the buisness your family owns, or you buy his house from him and consider him part of the family.

 

[15357]

You have another choice: cooperation and friendship. Let's say instead of your neighbor attacking you or you buying alot of guns to make sure he doesn't attack, instead you share the little side yard between your homes and take turns mowing it. And if some other neighbor wants to join in, you let him, and you get a bigger plot of land which you share. You then trade each other's lawn equipment, and if some guy can't keep up with his own equipment and land, you get him a job at the buisness your family owns, or you buy his house from him and consider him part of the family.

Thats collectivized.... lawning? COMMUNISM!


If that was on a country-to-country scale, that'd be something like annexation and internation-unification. You lose things in absorption. Like culture, ways of life, ect.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Er, numbers, you can't compare your house to your country.

For a start, your house isn't about to go eat someone without your permission.
For a middle, your house is owned by you and not a billion or so other people.
For a finish, it's very very debatable whether governments are the property of a population/country or whether it's the other way round.

Calculated patriotism would be: "I live in this country, I consider myself a citizen of this country and I believe this is a good country based on conclusions that I have drawn up from the available evidence."

Calculated patriotism would NOT be: "Yeah! Go Saddam! Go Iraq! Go...oh...shit, we're losing...uh...USA! USA! USA!" as you seem to suggest.

 

[Ludah]

No sense except for the ethical reasons.

Meaningless. Meaningless. Is your house meaningless to you? Wouldn't you care if it was attacked by your uh... neighbor? Kinda the same, except its on a much greater scale and the greater good.

I wouldn't call it slavery. You have a choice, you see: love, or betray.

My house doesn't make decisions. My house is a house, not a conscious entity with the ability to dictate foreign and domestic policies. Your invoking of love is so misguided and warped that I'm not sure wether to crack a grin or shake my head. Love is given to the places and people that hold value to you. Should my country of origin abandon such values, I will uproot myself and find another one to call my home.

Let's make an example. Let's say your government rounds up and kills your family. They dictate that so much as a whisper of dissent will be met with execution. Your fellow people live in a constant state of fear and frustration. Your military is perpetually tossed into a meatgrinder conflict with no end in sight and hundreds are lost monthly. Exploitation and corruption is rampant throughout the government and the higher classes of society.
See, that would be a country I would have no love for. There would be no patriotism. I would want to escape it as soon as possible. Hell, part of me would hope that it is invaded and overthrown one day. But you? Well, shit. I guess you just need to tough it out. You'll love it no matter what, right? Even if it is a decrepit, tyrannical shithole that's murdered those you hold dear and raped your rights again and again. You'll defend it to the death for some inane notion of national duty, much akin to a clingy, battered spouse in an abusive and twisted relationship.

That's not sense. That's stupidity. Brainwashing. Blind loyalty. Whatever you want to call it, its only basis is in this ill-thought rhetoric that you seem to know plenty of, but is unfortunately driven in to many people's skulls.

 

[gick]

^ Good post