Do you miss grenades?

[X-FacToR]

Ok so at first I missed grenades and bags... yeah I figured out you get ammo by picking up the deads weapons which is cool. But i do miss grenades... and I understand why they left them out but I think each class should still be able to carry 1 special grenade unique to their class but not able to replenish them at the supply areas only at a defensive (grenade only spawn) similar to TFC.

 

[Iron_cube]

Nerdy elitists will have to revert back to FF.

Tf2 is awesome without them.

 

[Hazar]

glad they're not in

 

[CyberPitz]

I don't miss them. With this new, more slow style of play, it would create chaos. Personally, if you want something more like TFC, there's Fortress Forever. But TF2 wouldn't suit it too much.

 

[Chris D]

I'm glad they're out.

 

[-Psy-]

HELL NO.

caps

 

[IchI]

Hmmm, I completely miss grenades. But I played TFC for a very long time. Its not like I don't have any option. I personally will simply play more of Fortress Forever than Team Fortress 2. But its still disapointing not having such a graphically polished and stylish version of Team Fortress as Team Fortress 2 provides.

Don't wanna sound like an ass hole but Team Fortress 2 has lost a lot of things that made it what it was. Even back in the days of Quake. I personally think they should have just taken a different direction completely instead of simplfying a not so complicated game to begin with.

Its clear grenades and such where taken out because of consoles which honestly sucks.

But oh well, hopfully Fortress Forvever will keep getting patched and polished and I will some day have my perfect game

 

[Hazar]

Its clear grenades and such where taken out because of consoles which honestly sucks.

Simply not true. They were taken out because they made all classes very similar and were annoying when spammed. View the commentary to get the full explanation.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Nope, that basically threw me from TFC. Nade spam kills games for me, I don't think the nades would've fit in too well with the game how it is now anyways.

 

[Naph]

Grenade spam, no thanks :3

 

[Wanted Bob]

Grenade spam, no thanks :3

QFT. Demomen get pretty close to doing that, but they got limitations, so its all good.

 

[AmishSlayer]

The only reason I'm playing TF2 is because they're gone.

 

[Que-Ever]

I never was good at using grenades.

 

[spinoff360]

I thought I would but honestly I don't. Really in TFC half the fights would be decided by who had a grenade instead of who were best with the classes skills. And of course the whole EMPs coming through floors and walls annoyed me. Especially as a sniper fan and playing a map like 2Fort with an EMP killing you from below the sniper deck.

I wouldn't mind playing some conc maps in TF2 sometime though but I am sure a nade mod will show up eventually if Valve never change their mind.

 

[Dan]

grenade timing was probably the most important skill of TFC

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

No wai do I miss grens.

 

[mrxskinny]

I too miss grenades. Nothing like taking down a few guys with you in blazing booming glory.

 

[FISKER_Q]

I don't miss grenades that much either, but i wouldn't mind if they find a way adding it again if they kept it reasonable, like 2 grenades max, and they just do damage in various ways, no puking, conc jumping or whatever.

 

[Dr0ndeh]

while i agree that its much better with nobody having the standard grenade, and certain overpowered class specific ones, i think a few of the grenades would improve the gameplay quite a bit. if you remove the conc jump part of conc grenades they would be very useful, and also the spys smoke grenade.

but overall, im happy they were all removed alltogether.

 

[Sloth]

The thing with TF2 is that a newb can jump in and still play on an average level - as soon as you throw 'nades in - that aspect of it is lost.

But i still think a smoke 'nade with the sniper or spy would be alot of fun.

 

[Kanehdian]

After playing Fortress Forever, I'm glad they removed them from TF2. Like Adrian Finol said in the commentary they were used to spam doorways or desperately thrown out in hopes of a kill when the player knew they were going to die.

 

[IchI]

A lot of people are pointing out about grenades been a huge part of the old games. But what you don't seem to get is that what made Team Fortress what it is. Its like taking melee and grenades out of halo. Its part of what makes the game what it is. Not every game is so based around shooting. Lets face it, Team Fortress as a whole was never about shooting.

The definition between assault and defense was clear and each class had a unique method of been played simply because of the grenades they where given and there speed and abilities.

Team Fortress 2 has taken this all away. Its all about shooting now and apart from the visual style which might I add is ****ing amazing. The game has just become another simple class based team deathmatch mixed in with some points. It does nothing new and has no identity in gameplay apart from the way it looks. Its simply another shooter doing the same thing.

This is why I mentioned before that Team Fortress 2 should have simply gone completely different. They have tried to stick to a foundation of a good game but at the same time dropping the biggest thing about it.

 

[IchI]

May be this video will help some people who havn't played the classics understand what Team Fortress is all about

Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnXIH3s5DUw
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9C8-BSceO0

 

[tibetanpunk]

hmmm...I never played TFC, but I think TF2 is awesome as it is. Each character has their own specific strengths, weaknesses and abilities. If you have a specific style of gameplay you want, you choose the corresponding class...
Not sure what the big deal is about grenades or lack of them...If you want them so bad, use the demoman...But that means you ONLY have grenades, so there is a big trade off...
Grenade spamming in Halo multiplayer was totally pointless and ruined the gameplay because you ended up with grenades exploding everywhere and everyone constantly spamming with them...It didn't make the game what it was, it made it crap...
I am glad they don't have this type of exploit in TF2.

 

[tibetanpunk]

May be this video will help some people who havn't played the classics understand what Team Fortress is all about

Looks as though Valve have re-defined what Team fortress is all about...Which would seem to be a good thing.

 

[-Psy-]

May be this video will help some people who havn't played the classics understand what Team Fortress is all about

FFS. This is 2007 and we don't need any more exploits which only experienced players can perform.

 

[IchI]

FFS. This is 2007 and we don't need any more exploits which only experienced players can perform.

exploits? You do know that Team Fortress goes back a lot furter than Half-Life don't you? Hense the words 'classic' in the title...

Conc grenades and bunny hopping are game mechanics. They are not mistakes.

 

[L3TUC3]

Ugh, I don't want to see grenade tennis return. I doesn't make much sense to give everyone grenades and then expect them to play their role accordingly.

Heck the medic was more used as a secondary flag captor with it's concjump instead of healing people. Not that there was a lot of healing since everyone was in gibs because of the grenades.

The scout got a double jump, the soldier can still do a rocketjump, the medic actually heals people now and noone is exploding out of nowhere. Less spam is good.

 

[X-FacToR]

I want bunny hoping conc jumping and grenades

 

[Robert-]

I think every class having grenades would defeat the purpose of balancing the classes.

 

[ZEROarmy]

I like no grenades, but the solider player model has some grenades on his chest! Stop teasing us Valve!

Also, remember from one of the trailers the demoman could chuck TNT, I wonder why they cut that.

 

[L3TUC3]

It was probably an early build where they still had grenades. The dev commentary talks about grenades a few times and that they were in the playtest sessions. The demoman probably got the tnt/clusterbomb as his grenade option.

 

[drspliff]

The thing with TF2 is that a newb can jump in and still play on an average level - as soon as you throw 'nades in - that aspect of it is lost.

Yes but this removes depth from the game, artificially evening the gameplay out by removing features that advanced or experienced players use.

So it'll be easier for people to get into the game, but it will become repetative and boring after a while because it only takes a day explore and master all the classes - compared to weeks or months to master things like conc jumping and detpipe tricks.

I really like the game and it's quite fun, but already I can see it getting boring fairly quickly (compared to quakeworld customtf which I still play 7 or 8 years on).

Adding specialist grenades per-class (e.g. smoke/hallucinagenic, mirv, emp, fire etc.) or even restricting them down to two types of specialist grenades (say smoke for sniper/spy/engineer/medic and explosive for soldier/demo/heavy/pyro) would go a long way for a little effort.

My my few cents...

 

[L3TUC3]

No, it's the other way around. Grenades artificially increases the learning curve because only advanced players can use them for effects on classes that don't make much sense. Gameplay without grenades is simpler and classes have gotten (or kept) somesort of feature to compensate for it.

Doublejump for the scout. (Lost concjump)
Rocketjump for the soldier. (Balanced through health loss)
Ubercharge for medic. (Lost concjump and infections, but gained ubercharge)
Supersentry for engineer. (Lost empgrenade)
Bombjump for demoman. (Lost something grenade, balanced through health loss)

Anyway, no grenades keeps the game a lot cleaner with a lot less chaos.

 

[Asuka]

Nope not at all.

 

[drspliff]

Doublejump for the scout. (Lost concjump)
Rocketjump for the soldier. (Balanced through health loss)
Ubercharge for medic. (Lost concjump and infections, but gained ubercharge)
Supersentry for engineer. (Lost empgrenade)
Bombjump for demoman. (Lost something grenade, balanced through health loss)

Anyway, no grenades keeps the game a lot cleaner with a lot less chaos.

The only new things here are the double jump for scout and the ubercharge for medic compared to normal qwtf or normal tfc.

Normal qwtf/tfc has always had rocket jumps, detjumps and level 1/2 &3 sentrys.

Saying that only advanced players can use grenades is stupid - everybody can use grenades and their easy to use for their primary effects, but it adds to game play to allow you to continue learning to get better at the game.

Another thing I miss is for the demo to det pipes (sticky bombs, whatever) at any time - toning them down a lot so it's like all the other classes - primarily offence or defence based on the primary weapons (or sentrys) alone.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the ideas in TF2, the medic weapon & ubercharge is great (a much cleaner implementation of the chaplain skill from custom qwtf) and the scout double jump is nice (instead of the megatf equivilent).

The only thing that bugs me is that the game play is just too simple, like removing all the pawns from chess to make it easier for noobs

 

[L3TUC3]

The only new things here are the double jump for scout and the ubercharge for medic compared to normal qwtf or normal tfc.

Normal qwtf/tfc has always had rocket jumps, detjumps and level 1/2 &3 sentrys.

Saying that only advanced players can use grenades is stupid - everybody can use grenades and their easy to use for their primary effects, but it adds to game play to allow you to continue learning to get better at the game.

Another thing I miss is for the demo to det pipes (sticky bombs, whatever) at any time - toning them down a lot so it's like all the other classes - primarily offence or defence based on the primary weapons (or sentrys) alone.

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the ideas in TF2, the medic weapon & ubercharge is great (a much cleaner implementation of the chaplain skill from custom qwtf) and the scout double jump is nice (instead of the megatf equivilent).

The only thing that bugs me is that the game play is just too simple, like removing all the pawns from chess to make it easier for noobs

Didn't say they were new, but they've kept their implementation because to give the class a sense of uniqueness and because they could balance it.

The grenades usefulness started to take precedence over the default weapons. When looking at a random game of TFC, it's mostly the grenades that decide battles between players. Wanna kill a guy quick? Throw a grenade. Almost dead? Throw your grenades to go down in a blaze of glory. People would just chuck em around corners, into doorways, often travelled places hoping some sap would blow up instead of running in guns blazing. Heck, I played some FF and tried to keep spies out of the base as an engineer. Every time I would catch a spy he would start chucking grenades at me and my sentry to try and take it out.

Removing the grenades makes people more focussed on the actual strengths and weaknesses of the classes instead of which player can chuck grenades better (like any class).

Also, the demoman can detonate the sticky bombs at any time (try rightclicking sometimes).

 

[Cormeh]

I don't think that the Demoman is capable of spamming grenades to the degree people refer to in TFC. With the launcher, you can only fire 4 at a time, and seen as they don't exactly do devastating damage, every shot has to count.

I've really "spammed" 'nades when groups of enemies are huddled close together.

 

[Silarn]

Demoman grenades are one of the most damaging projectiles in the game.

Also, TFC classes only ever carried four grenades (two normal, two special), so the 'four at a time' isn't all that terrible.

But I really have to side with Valve. Grenades really just broke many of the classes in TFC. Scouts and medics were practically the same. Both basically conced flag caps in 15 seconds. Grenades really became the be all, end all of every single class.

I like my classes actually playing different roles.

 

[Warbie]

Yes but this removes depth from the game, artificially evening the gameplay out by removing features that advanced or experienced players use.

I tend to agree. It's obvious that much effort has been put in to make TF2 as accessible as possible - which it does very well - but there really doesn't seem to be much depth. It's a spammers dream, with only two of the classes actually requiring you to be accurate, and can become quite repetitive. I'm already bored of spamming with the soldier and demoman and hoping someone walks into the shot.

tbh it's nice to see the back of the nade spamming that went on in TFC, but a few grenades would, imo, have changed things for the better. I'm not suggesting every class should get them, hell, just give one to the medic - give him something else to do other than bloody push a button and follow someone about.