Does infinite really exist?

[Baal]

Think it through. Say there is an edge to the universe. Whats on the other side of this edge? Whatever is on the other side is still in the "universe" as the universe is defined simply as everything and everywhere. Thus the universe cannot be finite.

As for looped space and doughnut theories, tell me, what outside the doughnut?

Does there have to be anything on the other side?

Couldn't there just be a huge.."wall" as it were to stop you from going to the other side?

I almost see where you're coming from though...We live in a world where there is no true barrier...we can always go somewhere, but if it's blocked off, it doesn't kill the fact that it is still there...

 

[Razor]

As far as i am aware, infinite has no place in mathematics and it is more to do with philosophy. Philosophy also states that you can have numbers bigger then an infinite, i.e. infinite x 10.

 

[ductonius]

The first part of your reply states that there is a finite amount of space in the universe but in order to make the space infinte matter has to expand. To me if the universe had a finite amount of space matter would have to "hit" something or stop somewhere along the say...that is to say...matter has found the end of the universe but since matter should expand infinitly..then space should be infinite as well.

Matter and space only approach infinity, they never actually get there. It's similar to taking the limit of 1/n where n -> 0. As n (starting at any number) gets smaller and smaller, the equation (1/n) gets closer and closer to infinity, however, it can never actually reach it. Similarly, space and matter are finite, but space is expanding and its volume is approaching infinite. It can never reach infinite and at any given point in time its volume is always finite as is the ammount of matter in it.

Another confusing thing in your reply is the 2D paper and sphere. I get the paper part but I am having a difficult time understanding what you mean by the sphere having a 3D component and a 2D component. The skin of the sphere may be 2D but a 2D component has no volume just area. So what I think your saying is that sphere has a 2D skin on top of it but below that is a volume of space.

If I understand you correctly you are thinking of the 2D-skinned sphere floating in 3d space. This is not the case.

Only the 2D skin of the sphere exists as the 2D universe. There is no "space" inside the sphere. There is nothingness.

*IF* you could look at it it would appear to be a 3d sphere with a 2D surface, however, only the skin of the sphere actually exists and it has no internal volume since no space exists there.

 

[Pressure]

Do you people believe infinite exists (in a mathematical term). When you divide 1/0 you get error on your calculator why?? Well if you divide 1/0.000000001 you get 1000000000. So if you divide 1/1*10exp.-56 you get 100exp.54. So you are getting close to infinite. But you will never reach it because we can't divide 1 into 0. It's kinda weird but interesting. If any of you find out how to do it I'll give you a cookie. :thumbs:

EDIT: Edit the 1/0's for correctiveness

The limit of 1/x as x-> 0 = infinity
The limit of -1/x as x-> 0 = negative infinity

Technically thats 1/0 and -1/0

sin(0)/0 = 1
cos(0)/0 = 0

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Since existence is based on human understanding, and since you can't fully understand something that never ends, infinity technically cannot exist.

Even if it did, we'd never know.

 

[Pressure]

MATH DOESN'T LIE MECHA!!! lol

 

[Lethal8472]

Space is infinite, but the matter within it is not. When you're watching a tv program where scientists are talking about how the universe/space is expanding, they are talking about the matter within space (galaxies, dust, stars, etc) is expanding outward (from a single point, which is one reason we have the big bang theory), not space itself. If i flew out into space faster than the matter in the universe is traveling, I would eventually pass everything and be out where there is literally only space, a total vacuum void of all matter (except myself). I would not run into some sort of invisible wall after a certain point, i would just keep going for infinity. I will have passed the boundaries of matter in the universe, but not space.

 

[The Monkey]

Space is infinite, but the matter within it is not. When you're watching a tv program where scientists are talking about how the universe/space is expanding, they are talking about the matter within space (galaxies, dust, stars, etc) is expanding outward (from a single point, which is one reason we have the big bang theory), not space itself. If i flew out into space faster than the matter in the universe is traveling, I would eventually pass everything and be out where there is literally only space, a total vacuum void of all matter (except myself). I would not run into some sort of invisible wall after a certain point, i would just keep going for infinity. I will have passed the boundaries of matter in the universe, but not space.

The matter in Universe, in this case, photons, are trevelling in the speed of light, and we can never reach that speed.

 

[Dynasty]

^yet....and if you went out into space in an exact straight line, you would eventually end up where you started.

this makes me wonder, if scace is 'spherical', then it has to be in something else not so?

 

[The Monkey]

^yet....and if you went out into space in an exact straight line, you would eventually end up where you started.

this makes me wonder, if scace is 'spherical', then it has to be in something else not so?

Yes, but that would take us, if you say we travel half the speed of light, 80 000 000 000 years.

 

[Razor]

The matter in Universe, in this case, photons, are trevelling in the speed of light, and we can never reach that speed.

From what some astronomies are now predicting, the universe might be expanding faster than light. I think someone predicted that the Universe could be between 70 - 150 billion light years across. If it was only traveling at the speed of light, the universe could only be around 25 - 28 billion light years across.

 

[Pressure]

From what some astronomies are now predicting, the universe might be expanding faster than light. I think someone predicted that the Universe could be between 70 - 150 billion light years across. If it was only traveling at the speed of light, the universe could only be around 25 - 28 billion light years across.

Your mom is 70-150 billion light years in diameter!

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! You got burned!

 

[Razor]

Your mom is 70-150 billion light years in diameter!

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! You got burned!

Yes, and your mum is so stupid, she got run over by a parked car.

 

[C4-Explosive]

Space is infinite, but the matter within it is not. When you're watching a tv program where scientists are talking about how the universe/space is expanding, they are talking about the matter within space (galaxies, dust, stars, etc) is expanding outward (from a single point, which is one reason we have the big bang theory), not space itself. If i flew out into space faster than the matter in the universe is traveling, I would eventually pass everything and be out where there is literally only space, a total vacuum void of all matter (except myself). I would not run into some sort of invisible wall after a certain point, i would just keep going for infinity. I will have passed the boundaries of matter in the universe, but not space.

That doesn't sound right, I always thought that it is actually space expanding and 'stretching out' the matter in it. It isn't expanding from a single point, the big bang doesn't have an epicentre, everywhere is the centre of the big bang just stretched out into a larger area... err volume.

 

[Pressure]

Yes, and your mum is so stupid, she got run over by a parked car.

It was a tragic day but she has gotten over it. Infact, she just got hit by another one yesterday. She's in the hospital and I'm praying for her safety.

 

[Lethal8472]

That doesn't sound right, I always thought that it is actually space expanding and 'stretching out' the matter in it. It isn't expanding from a single point, the big bang doesn't have an epicentre, everywhere is the centre of the big bang just stretched out into a larger area... err volume.

The opposite is true...matter warps space. And if the big bang therory is true, then all matter started from a single point in space which exploded and sent matter flying in all directions from that center.

The matter in Universe, in this case, photons, are trevelling in the speed of light, and we can never reach that speed.

True, unless we invent a warp drive and bend the space around us. But I was just saying that if I was able to travel faster than the universe was expanding, i would eventually pass farther than the original matter from the big bang, but space would still continue.

this makes me wonder, if scace is 'spherical', then it has to be in something else not so?

Space itself is not spherical, but the matter currently in it is. The matter in the universe should be in a spherical shape if the big bang theory is correct. But it wouldnt be a perfect sphere, because of the effects of gravity between the different masses of matter. (galaxies, stars, dust, etc).

 

[Shadowlands5325]

infinite exists in my mind because if you go into outer space, as far as you can, you wont just hit a brick wall or something out there. but my dad used to say that maybe if you went out far enough you would come back to where you started, sorta like a big loop. the scientsts say that space is infinite, and then they say that its expanding. these facts contradict eachother if you think about it.


i want hl2.

The universe from what I heard Is a big bubble getting bigger and bigger waiting to pop and we all die. Happy ending? Yes

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

i dont know does it ?

 

[Jakeic]

no one knows the limit for understanding in the human brain. It could be we can understand infinitey, just not yet.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Everything ends afterawhile, even time, and naturally numerical values. So yes infinity does not exist in the human state of mind. Maybe we will figure it after we start using that other ~75% of our brains. In this stage of human evolution infinity will remain indefinatley nothing but a concept, you will never know not during your life anyways and probably your ancestors wont either, the real mystery behind forever and infinity. I'm sure they're is some kind of freaky 4d type thing we dont understand like time moves in 4 ways intead of 2. Anyways i'm done for now.

 

[blahblahblah]

So yes infinity does not exist in the human state of mind. Maybe we will figure it after we start using that other ~75% of our brains.

That is a myth. People use all of their brains. If you learn about anatomy of the human brain you would understand why your statement is false.

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

care to explain blah?? i would like to know

 

[blahblahblah]

care to explain blah?? i would like to know

From my understanding, your brain is split up into numerous segments. Each segment is responsible for something different. You have one segment for long-term memories, another for short-term memories, another for hunger, another for sleep, etc.

So while you may not be able to use your entire brain at once, but over a day you will use the majority of it.

IIRC, my psychology professor (several years back) told me that our higher brain functions (the things that make us human) make up a relatively small part of your brain.

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

cool thanks for the info, i always thought that 11 percent or whatever percent usage of brain was true but i guess not

 

[Korgoth]

we are merely a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body of a person that smokes to much while touring with his famous rock band the rolling stones thatt is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is a cancer on a cell inside of a body that is....

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

That's cool blah man you seem to be more knowledgable then me ont he topic so opviously I wont argue, but still evolution still might (hopefully) start giving us some kickass x-men style shit

 

[Phisionary]

yes i've heard some evidence against that '10 percent' stuff. and IIRC, the amount of brain that is associated with your concious thought processes and such is like, 35% ?

A large part of your brain is dedicated to sensory processing and things like that... vison, hearing, smell.. then there are boundary areas that connect to centers, for example where language is 'parsed' if you excuse the term.... into conceptual ideas that we can use...

also, some areas of the brain can develope for special functions. maybe some of us here have areas of our brain expecially adept at FPS's... we wouldn't use that typing on the forums...

 

[RRunner]

If you can define and name it, dont you violate the term infinite, by making it finite?

 

[Korgoth]

If you can define and name it, dont you violate the term infinite, by making it finite?

I wouldn't think so... What about eternity, forever, endless.. They describe it, they don't tell where it starts or ends. So infinate doesn't tell a point to where it stops. Merely describes that it is not finite?

 

[RRunner]

I wouldn't think so... What about eternity, forever, endless.. They describe it, they don't tell where it starts or ends. So infinate doesn't tell a point to where it stops. Merely describes that it is not finite?

I would say those points "eternity, forever, endless", fall in the same catagory.
They have no start nor any end, their by limited by them selfs, by that, they are limited, and no longer unlimited "endless, forever, endless, eternal.

(just a thought)

 

[Korgoth]

Well unlimited falls into the same category too... So does the concept even really exist?

 

[JATZ-MAN]

infinite exists in my mind because if you go into outer space, as far as you can, you wont just hit a brick wall or something out there. but my dad used to say that maybe if you went out far enough you would come back to where you started, sorta like a big loop. the scientsts say that space is infinite, and then they say that its expanding. these facts contradict eachother if you think about it.


i want hl2.

wtf if some thing is infinite it will expand (grow) if it never expanded it would never be infinite because you could hit the end... :angel:
well thats what i thought

 

[RRunner]

Well unlimited falls into the same category too... So does the concept even really exist?

yes good Q.. Methinks Cusanu´s dialog of wisdom covers this, to old and tiert to re-read it... Somn about the infinite cirkel, expanding into an infinite line (the diameter chasing the perifirum to the infinite, their cannot be 2 infinites, therfore the diameter chases the perifirum). So the line has a start, but no end (wether u now can call it a line, can be discussed).

 

[Parrot of doom]

1 divided by zero is 1.

Stop using calculators and try using fractions.

 

[Lethal8472]

How is that possible? 1/0 doesn not equal 1, since no matter how many zeros you use, you will never reach 1.

 

[dream431ca]

1 divided by zero is 1.

Stop using calculators and try using fractions.

You know what 1/0 means..how many times does 1 divide into zero?? Nonexistant. It doesn't exist or we think it doesn't exist. Remember all these things are based on theories and not anything practical..just like the theory on light speed. All the scientists say we will never reach it but..we never tried.

 

[bliink]

Do you people believe infinite exists?

See my inbox, see the spam. Yes, you can see infinite.

 

[qckbeam]

See my inbox, see the spam. Yes, you can see infinite.

bliink, PM

 

[Tr0n]

I try not to think about these things...because my brain tends to...die.