Don't You Ever Use That Talking Point That Nobody Predicted How Iraq Would Turn Out

[No Limit]

Look at this, those pesky raging liberals were once again right the crazy extreme right was wrong, what is that liberals: 1,403 right: 0?

Statement on the War in Iraq
March 21, 2003
By the Editors

We oppose this war.

We find it difficult to believe George W. Bush's claim that he has attacked Iraq reluctantly.

This administration has spent months attempting to convince the American people that Saddam Hussein is in some way responsible for 9/11. It has spent weeks in front of the U.N. arguing for war, going so far as to offer false information at key presentations. It has consistently ignored the reports of Hans Blix and the U.N. weapons inspectors. In the hurry to conquer Iraq, this administration has vilified nations and people who would urge caution.

We are told that we must invade Iraq to prevent further terrorist attacks, when top intelligence officials agree that an invasion will likely increase the possibility of such attacks. We are told that we must invade Iraq to prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction, when evidence of Iraq's possession of such weapons is unclear. We are told that Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator and we must liberate his people, when there are many brutal dictators around the globe who are are guilty of the same crimes — the Bush administration even considers some of them our allies.

The United States stands virtually alone in the world right now. The actions of George W. Bush — supposedly a uniter, not a divider — have alienated the vast majority of people on this planet and caused turmoil, division, finger-pointing and anger against the United States. Anti-American terrorists must be dancing for joy.

There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator, but we believe that the U.N. inspections should have been given more time. The United States sets a dangerous precedent when we attack first — a precedent which, sadly, our enemies will likely be only too happy to exploit.

We strongly support our troops, who are bravely putting their lives on the line in Iraq. They did not choose this war, nor are they responsible for it. We hope and pray that they can return home safely to their families as soon as possible. We hope casualties on both sides can be minimized, especially among civilians.

For the moment, we are taking a break from publishing articles on our homepage. We will resume publication when we feel it is appropriate, so feel free to submit articles. The message board will remain open.

We expect the traffic to this website to increase dramatically as a result of this war. In an effort to minimize our bandwidth, we have removed many of the graphical and design elements from our pages. Once traffic decreases somewhat, DU will return to the way it looked before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/03/21_statement.html

 

[gick]

Hate to say I told you sooooo awright! Do do do, do do do do, do do do do dummm..........


The Hives FTW!

 

[ComradeBadger]

Cos of course this is the most effective way of solving all the worlds problems.

Stop behaving like a toddler - and actually ****ing suggest something to improve the situation aside from 'na na na na we were right you were wrong'

 

[Direwolf]

Yeah, this is getting pretty old, valid or not (and thats probably endlessly debatable).

 

[Solaris]

Cos of course this is the most effective way of solving all the worlds problems.

Stop behaving like a toddler - and actually ****ing suggest something to improve the situation aside from 'na na na na we were right you were wrong'

Withdraw, immediately.

 

[CptStern]

Cos of course this is the most effective way of solving all the worlds problems.

Stop behaving like a toddler - and actually ****ing suggest something to improve the situation aside from 'na na na na we were right you were wrong'

there really isnt a solution that's at all viable ..it's like pulling the pin on a gernade and then losing the pin making an explosion inevitable. This was a calculated risk they they were willing to take, they knew the consequences but underestimated the full extent of their involvement ...as rummy said:

"Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that"

wrong on all counts

 

[The Mullinator]

Withdraw, immediately.

Oh ya like that won't result in a far more violent situation than it is now. Pulling out will save US troops but that will be it.

 

[Direwolf]

there really isnt a solution that's at all viable ..it's like pulling the pin on a gernade and then losing the pin making an explosion inevitable

Completely true, but it's still not helpful. When it comes to the whole "justification" argument, we've now gone from beating a dead horse, to beating the grave of the dead horse, and beating the horse's children, to where we're beating up organisms that have evolved from that dead horse.

 

[Solaris]

Oh ya like that won't result in a far more violent situation than it is now. Pulling out will save US troops but that will be it.

Iraq is on the verge of civil war, with its natural resources being raped by US multicorps.

No-body in Iraq wants the illegal occupyers there. You cannot have a free democratic state under an occupation.

 

[CptStern]

Completely true, but it's still not helpful. When it comes to the whole "justification" argument, we've now gone from beating a dead horse, to beating the grave of the dead horse, and beating the horse's children, to where we're beating up organisms that have evolved from that dead horse.

yes but the point is still valid ..even if repeated ad nauseum ...just like bush and his "evil-doers" "weapons of mass destruction" and "if you're not with us you're against us"..it hammers the point home ..say it often enough and maybe more people will start to take notice

having said that, I see no real problem in this ...ALL americans should be waving this information in the faces of those that would support the war, specifically those in charge ...if you dont say anything they'll just repeat this time and again ...the war drums are still beating, albeit softly. Mark my words if the neo-cons remain in power syria and iran are next ...and I have absolutely no doubt the majority of americans will be behind that decision ...I really truely believe the bulk of americans have learned nothing from 9/11 which is truely a shame and an outrage to the victems and their families

 

[The Mullinator]

Iraq is on the verge of civil war, with its natural resources being raped by US multicorps.

No-body in Iraq wants the illegal occupyers there. You cannot have a free democratic state under an occupation.

It also can't be achieved by leaving and allowing the country to disolve into one large warzone where everyone competes for power and no one is there to even try and seperate such groups.

If you ask me it has a far better chance of achieving proper democracy with the US there. Obviously it will take several years but its a better situation than it will be with no troops there.

 

[No Limit]

Cos of course this is the most effective way of solving all the worlds problems.

Stop behaving like a toddler - and actually ****ing suggest something to improve the situation aside from 'na na na na we were right you were wrong'

This is insane, it has gotten to the point where I can't even make a thread on this ****ing board. I didn't post here for a long time because of these stupid comments, I had some time this morning and figured I'd give it a shot and the same shit happens again because of people like you.

It is my job and the job of any honest american to hammer this point in, that Bush lied to us or these idiots will vote for him again. Do you have any clue how many americans still support this asshat we call our president? Until these people don't support him anymore I will continue to hammer in their head what this president has done. There is nothing we can do to improve the situation in Iraq, the anology stern used was great. However, there is a lot we can do to make sure this never happens again. Why you don't understand this simple point is beyond me.

 

[The Mullinator]

This is insane, it has gotten to the point where I can't even make a thread on this ****ing board. I didn't post here for a long time because of these stupid comments, I had some time this morning and figured I'd give it a shot and the same shit happens again because of people like you.

It is my job and the job of any honest american to hammer this point in, that Bush lied to us or these idiots will vote for him again. Do you have any clue how many americans still support this asshat we call our president? Until these people don't support him anymore I will continue to hammer in their head what this president has done. There is nothing we can do to improve the situation in Iraq, the anology stern used was great. However, there is a lot we can do to make sure this never happens again. Why you don't understand this simple point is beyond me.

And if you think you are going to change the minds of those people by hammering the exact same point over and over again then you really don't know what goes through the heads of those people. If they aren't convinced by such points after this amount of time then they won't ever be convinced by them. Time to think of a new strategy.

Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong.
Thats nice, but it isn't going to change too many peoples minds because that is in the past and it doesn't even get closed to giving any new information or saying something that might change the future for the better.

 

[gh0st]

these idiots will vote for him again. (sic)

hahahahhaha :dork: duuurrr i can sure comment on my countries politics but i have no idea how our federalism works.

 

[No Limit]

hahahahhaha :dork: duuurrr i can sure comment on my countries politics but i have no idea how our federalism works.

Idiot Bush Voter #51,543,653.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Cos of course this is the most effective way of solving all the worlds problems.

Stop behaving like a toddler - and actually ****ing suggest something to improve the situation aside from 'na na na na we were right you were wrong'

Pwnt.

<3 Badger.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[No Limit]

And if you think you are going to change the minds of those people by hammering the exact same point over and over again then you really don't know what goes through the heads of those people. If they aren't convinced by such points after this amount of time then they won't ever be convinced by them. Time to think of a new strategy.

Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong. Iraq war was wrong.
Thats nice, but it isn't going to change too many peoples minds because that is in the past and it doesn't even get closed to giving any new information or saying something that might change the future for the better.

You'd be suprised. There are many americans out there that have absolutely no idea what has happened, they need to be educated. I am fully aware of people like ghost who would support Bush if he ate a baby on live tv and if you think I am trying to get through to people like him you must not think very highly of me.

 

[gh0st]

Idiot Bush Voter #51,543,653.

liberal who has no idea how government works # 49,502,810.

no limit - i dont support bush. anything ive said to you in these boards is out of spite for you personally. in fact i hate bush. but i hate you more, as does everyone else around here.

 

[No Limit]

liberal who has no idea how government works # 49,502,810.

You do understand that many people around Bush are up for reelection in 2006, don't you? Only the same idiots that voted for Bush would vote for these people.

 

[CptStern]

liberal who has no idea how government works # 49,502,810.

no limit - i dont support bush. anything ive said to you in these boards is out of spite for you personally. in fact i hate bush. but i hate you more, as does everyone else around here.

I think you trump no limit in that department ...in fact I'm willing to bet he's nowhere near you

 

[satch919]

No Limit, I agree with the articles that you post but you have got to quit the "liberals are better" comments. Remember, a lot of liberals voted for this war and some of Bush's failed policies. Don't lose sight of who these people really are, they're politicians!

 

[Angry Lawyer]

You'd be suprised. There are many americans out there that have absolutely no idea what has happened, they need to be educated. I am fully aware of people like ghost who would support Bush if he ate a baby on live tv and if you think I am trying to get through to people like him you must not think very highly of me.

95% of the posters on HL2.net aren't eligible for voting in the US, either through not actually living there, or not being old enough to vote.

Seriously, you might be trying to gett a point across, but you're doing it to the wrong audience.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[kirovman]

No Limit, I agree with the articles that you post but you have got to quit the "liberals are better" comments. Remember, a lot of liberals voted for this war and some of Bush's failed policies. Don't lose sight of who these people really are, they're politicians!

True that.

Both political parties in the Sates look almost identical from an outsider's point of view. The Democrats have slightly better international relations, but meh.

 

[The Mullinator]

You'd be suprised. There are many americans out there that have absolutely no idea what has happened, they need to be educated. I am fully aware of people like ghost who would support Bush if he ate a baby on live tv and if you think I am trying to get through to people like him you must not think very highly of me.

Fair enough, just keep in mind though that the best leaders are people who don't need to ride the wave of hate and criticism for his/her predecessor in order to suceed.

I will always have very little respect for those people who try to win mostly be saying how they won't be any worse than the opponent. I find it a sign of weakness and dishonor in a leader to be honest.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Both political parties in the Sates look almost identical from an outsider's point of view. The Democrats have slightly better international relations, but meh.

Emphasis.

 

[gh0st]

You do understand that many people around Bush are up for reelection in 2006, don't you? Only the same idiots that voted for Bush would vote for these people.

LOL BUSH FOR PRES 08.. tard.

 

[Direwolf]

Emphasis.

Even more emphasis.

As far as convincing people that there are problems: absolutely no one has ever been convinced of anything by having someone call them retarded/crazy/evil and then shove a truckload of guilt and shame in their face.

Ever heard "speak softly and carry a big stick?" It can do wonders. All you have to do is give someone something to think about, without even involving political parties.

 

[No Limit]

Even more emphasis.

I don't get it. The 2 parties are nothing alike. Go look at some of the senate votes happening, they are completely different.

As far as convincing people that there are problems: absolutely no one has ever been convinced of anything by having someone call them retarded/crazy/evil and then shove a truckload of guilt and shame in their face.

Ever heard "speak softly and carry a big stick?" It can do wonders. All you have to do is give someone something to think about, without even involving political parties.

And I agree. But can you show me where I didn't follow that? I don't know how many times I heard people say nobody could have known Bush was lying so I posted something from the night of the invasion where people knew he was lying. I do throw some personal attacks here and there but you have no idea how frustrated it is to have every thread I make turn out like this one. Everyone is so damn concerned about looking non-partisan like its some sort of popularity contest. The fact is in politics there are 2 sides; one is better than the other. I think I have proven on this board on the issues I posted about the democrats have been better. You are free to dispute that but please, stop posting in each thread I make about how horrible No Limit is for being so partisan.

Fair enough, just keep in mind though that the best leaders are people who don't need to ride the wave of hate and criticism for his/her predecessor in order to suceed.

I will always have very little respect for those people who try to win mostly be saying how they won't be any worse than the opponent. I find it a sign of weakness and dishonor in a leader to be honest.

You hit the nail on the head, the democrats need to get their shit together and actually make their message heard. People say Democrats don't have a message, we have a very important message. The problem is that the media will not get that message out for us no matter how hard we try. All you hear is the attacks. But you can not say that you should not talk about the crimes of an administration because it is too partisan of an issue. In any democracy the leaders must be punished if they commit high crimes; which they did in this case.

 

[SAJ]

Quote:
"Both political parties in the Sates look almost identical from an outsider's point of view. The Democrats have slightly better international relations, but meh."

Emphasis.

Squared.

 

[No Limit]

True that.

Both political parties in the Sates look almost identical from an outsider's point of view. The Democrats have slightly better international relations, but meh.

Democrats: We should build a strong alliance with other countries.

Republicans: **** foreigners, we can take on the whole world. Oh, and lets leave the UN just to show them up for being right about WMDs.

I don't know if you could call that slightly better relations. That's like saying a stab wound to the testicles is slightly more painful than a paper cut.

 

[ComradeBadger]

The fact is in politics there are 2 sides; one is better than the other.

Yep. There is no middle ground, no shades of grey, just black and white.

 

[spookymooky]

People say Democrats don't have a message, we have a very important message. The problem is that the media will not get that message out for us no matter how hard we try.

GAH! You have a message. The media isn't getting your message across. A member of the media, taken at random is twice as likely as anyone else in America to be liberal. The media is saturated by democrats.

 

[Milkman]

You do understand that many people around Bush are up for reelection in 2006, don't you? Only the same idiots that voted for Bush would vote for these people.

Ohh you escaped that deathtrap pretty handedly there, thought for a second you were gonna get pwnt because president cant get elected 3 times.

Oh yeah btw Limits I'm no republican either, I post here out of spite of people like you just like ghost does, its my sick way of balancing the universe. So don't try calling me a bush voting idiot.

 

[CptStern]

GAH! You have a message. The media isn't getting your message across. A member of the media, taken at random is twice as likely as anyone else in America to be liberal. The media is saturated by democrats.

you make it sound like there's a bunch of hippies sitting around the offices of the NY times picking and choosing what story to publish when in fact most american media is corporate owned and has fiscal obligations that force self-censorship ...take the build up to the iraq war for example ...nowhere but in the US was the media so one sided in reporting the justifications for war

 

[spookymooky]

you make it sound like there's a bunch of hippies sitting around the offices of the NY times picking and choosing what story to publish when in fact most american media is corporate owned and has fiscal obligations that force self-censorship ...take the build up to the iraq war for example ...nowhere but in the US was the media so one sided in reporting the justifications for war

I just mean to point out the irony in No Limits statement.

 

[CptStern]

I know, I just get defensive when people say the media is liberal ..it's just so not true ...at least in mainstream media

 

[spookymooky]

I know, I just get defensive when people say the media is liberal ..it's just so not true ...at least in mainstream media

Don't worry, no offense taken.

 

[CptStern]

Don't worry, no offense taken.

I can never tell

 

[spookymooky]

I can never tell

Silly internet. Emotions are for real life.

 

[Last One In]

I don't get it. The 2 parties are nothing alike. Go look at some of the senate votes happening, they are completely different.

And I agree. But can you show me where I didn't follow that? I don't know how many times I heard people say nobody could have known Bush was lying so I posted something from the night of the invasion where people knew he was lying. I do throw some personal attacks here and there but you have no idea how frustrated it is to have every thread I make turn out like this one. Everyone is so damn concerned about looking non-partisan like its some sort of popularity contest. The fact is in politics there are 2 sides; one is better than the other. I think I have proven on this board on the issues I posted about the democrats have been better. You are free to dispute that but please, stop posting in each thread I make about how horrible No Limit is for being so partisan.


You hit the nail on the head, the democrats need to get their shit together and actually make their message heard. People say Democrats don't have a message, we have a very important message. The problem is that the media will not get that message out for us no matter how hard we try. All you hear is the attacks. But you can not say that you should not talk about the crimes of an administration because it is too partisan of an issue. In any democracy the leaders must be punished if they commit high crimes; which they did in this case.

Democratic message in a nut shell: Pro abortion, Gay rights, anti guns, good foreign relations, good domestic health policies, and I'm sure a few other good and bad things. But when it comes down to it all those politicians are just a bunch of fat cats trying to make a few bucks, not giving a real shit about the small guy.