Doom 3 Vs. Half-Life 2 redux....

[MultiVaC]

Originally posted by statix
way to go fanboy although i strongly feel that whatever rational they gave probably went over your head

Funny you should mention "rational [arguements]" (you seem to have left out the noun there). Let's review your past posts on this forum. Yeah, that's right, all four of them:

#1: You burst in with your wonderful intellectual debut statement, proclaiming: "HL2 is crap..Hell even doom3 alpha was more impressive in its pre release stages than this...". However, in your blazing idiocy, you fail to recognize the obvious fact that you were playing a jumble of STOLEN pre-E3 HL2 content.

#2 & #3: It seems that 50% of the posts you've made here were feeble attempts at flaming me. I'm not sure why you have this little grudge against me; perhaps you are holding me responsible for your severe mental retardation. If that is the case, I suggest you take it up with God; being a forum troll won't fix your tragic lack of brain matter.

#4: The post I just quoted.

It seems that you have some issues to work out. If you want to be of use on this planet, donate yourself to science. I'm sure some biologists would be very excited to find this missing link in the evolutionary chain.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

Actually I think he meant "rationale" - an explanation of controlling principles of opinion, belief, practice, or phenomena.

I love how flame wars progress from halfway coherent posts on down to the lowest common denominator, pointless name calling.

 

[statix]

listen elf u little psychoneurotic emotional freak show. I was merely voicing an opinion..You seem to be inducing your opinions onto others..and if you already didnt get it by now im only directing my flames at you because your actions justify those instigated by the ringleaders amongst the horde of FANBOYS in this forum. Cant we ever engage in something thats intellectually refined without being overly BIASED, sterotypical and orthodox. My previous posts were nothing but opinons being made explicitly, yes on a game that is leagues away from being released, but comparing it to another "beta" doom3. I used these pramaters as the basis for comparision. Who knows maybe after relaease i might have another opinion. And im for both actually knowing that being compulsively attached to one game will leave a person more unfullfilled as opposed to playing both games.. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO fanboys, despite being inherently and conciously aware that the graphical ostentatiousness or grandness of one game supercedes the other will clutch to the more inferior game BE it doom3 or hl2 and try to pacify themselves with irrational reasoning in stubborn defense for their game. Your posts are parralled with this line of thinking. Every sentence, every word, even the damn structure of your paragraphs lashes out on doom3.
"Funny you should mention "rational [arguements]" (you seem to have left out the noun there). " ooo excuse me for not using a word processor to run grammer check and then do a cut copy paste job. What can i say, i have a more diversified life that doesnt revolve around being confined 24/7 on internet forums pointing out typos when the intended message has already been conveyed. Any point for mentioning that? wow u really want to get back at me. would it bring u more satisfaction if i died a peaceful death or a painful one?

Now before you go on posting your typical: U FUXXxORZ HAXOR ROXXORZ BOXORZ hl2 OWNZ jooO GaBE newELl SCREWed CaRMaks DADZORS. take a deep breath, relax, and retort with Logic not anger.:cheers:

 

[Styloid]

He called me a fanboy. That's cool. I've been called a fanboy elsewhere for Doom3, Stalker, Thief3, etc- I guess most people are just like that. I can't help it that I like games though...
At least he proved something I said a loooong time ago; you can type lots of words and say absolutely nothing.

 

[Sporky]

Originally posted by Styloid
He called me a fanboy. That's cool. I've been called a fanboy elsewhere for Doom3, Stalker, Thief3, etc- I guess most people are just like that. I can't help it that I like games though...
At least he proved something I said a loooong time ago; you can type lots of words and say absolutely nothing.

Lol. True true, I get called a HL2 fanboy on a D3 forum I frequent from time to time.

Gamera is wrong about outside rendering capabilities of the D3 engine mind you., Sure you have to keep the lighting simple but that's easy enough with the one big lightsource (I'm told it's the sun, but I don't get out enough). I didn't see anything that couldn't be rendered in the HL2 vids with the possible exception of the buggy scene & docks scene. Which are very cool.

 

[Gamera]

That the D3 engine *can* handle outdoor scenes isn't the point, nomatter what anybody says might be, the underlying engine archetecture is much better suited to small enclosed areas. The only reason you would write it that way would be if that type of level was your main concern, for D3 to be able to handle a scene like the one below, major optimisations by the designer would be needed as it's essential to keep the number of unseen shadows to an absolute minimum. The portal rendering would also make this very difficult indeed.

http://www.uploadit.org/files/121003-hl2_dx9.jpg

My apologies for flaming back yesterday, long day, lot's of work, close deadlines.

 

[Sporky]

No fuss about the flaming. :cheers:

I was including the rooftop video in my assertion that it can be done though. There's a few natty work arounds and tricks that enable you to do that sort of thing. Mostly involving the use of imposters in the distance (much like Valve use there I believe). It's true that it's not what it does BEST though.

What I find most frustrating is the assertion that D3's in some way going to be a bad game (not made by you) because it doesn't have large outdoors areas and that this somehow reflects poorly on it. I happen to feel large open expanses do nothing to foster the sensation of creeping dread and claustrophobia that id are working so hard to achieve. Ho hum.

Anyway, deferring to my NDA I'm not going to say much more on the subject except that from what I've seen I think you'll be pleasantly suprised both by the base D3 gameplay and the tech's modability and scaleability. Not to mention the reflexive animations, glass shattering and per polygon clip freeness, which quite simply rocks :E

 

[Arno]

Are those buildings in the background real geometry? Can you float around them using noclip? Or is it a skybox? I can't tell as I don't have the beta, but maybe somebody else can shed a light on this.

If it's just a skybox then I'm sure the Doom3 engine would have no problems with such a scene.

 

[Sporky]

From the way they shift in the video (I don't have the stolen 'beta', I can't say I really approve, although the devil on my shoulder keeps urging me to get it) I suspect they are kind of a halfway house. They're imposter sprites which would be replaced as and when you get closer.

 

[Gamera]

Yep thoes are real geometry. The only object in the unreal style 3D skybox is the massive what you-call-it tower to the left (unseen in the shot), you can see it moving up and down in the video. The actual LOD (level of detail) of some of the debris and stuff on the ground shift very noticably up close, but the buildings and stuff would be really difficult to change.

I'm looking forward to D3 and it's clostrophobic feel, but I'll wait and see if ID deliver first becuase it's going to be difficult for them. Talking of delivery, Max Payne 2 today. :bounce:

 

[ASnogarD]

The apperent HL 2 deficincies could be explained by the fact it was levels not meant to be closely scrutinised by players using the (unmentionable)....so the level designers of those particular levels probably thought it unnessecery to put too much detail. A case of if you want to take a photo of a cake, and its not going to be eaten you wouldn't bother making it taste good.

I plan to consider both games as worthy of my money, and pending reviews and (hopefully) demos I will make my decision.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

I love how everyone "knows" what the Doom 3 engine can or cannot do. The only people who've seen the engine in action in the last 2 years are the designers and press. And the press only get shown what Id want's them to see.

It was obviously the same with Valve and HL2. But that's how you build interest in a game.

 

[SupaKoopa]

Originally posted by Unnamed_Player
I love how everyone "knows" what the Doom 3 engine can or cannot do. The only people who've seen the engine in action in the last 2 years are the designers and press. And the press only get shown what Id want's them to see.

It was obviously the same with Valve and HL2. But that's how you build interest in a game.

*cough*leakedbeta*cough*

oh, were you saying something?

 

[DooMSlave]

if your refuring to "leakedbeta" to the doom 3 refrence, it wasnt even a beta, it was an alpha, and wasnt even built to be played, it was built as a tech demo to show the progress of the engine at e3.

 

[snoggle]

Yeah the leaked alpha has neat things to show, but it's REALLY old and really incomplete and has to be looked upon as so.

It has some phyics stuff in it. The fatties have ragdoll effects and you can shoot around boxes that bounce in a realistic box-bouncing way. :thumbs:

But the engine seems unoptimised. But it runs pretty good for something that will be like 1.5 years old by the time the game is done.

There is general creepiness all around. When the game is released I recommend playing at night with the lights out and while naked.

Looks to be pretty good, although I would like it if the doom marine looked like the doom marine and not like Princess Leia in the bounty hunter disguise.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

Originally posted by SupaKoopa
*cough*leakedbeta*cough*

oh, were you saying something?

As I was saying. That was damn near 2 years ago! And that was shown after only 2 years of work. A lot has changed since the alpha was leaked. Anyone who will judge the game by that is a fool.

Besides the E3 demo that year was mainly to show off some of the processes they were using for the graphics of the game, nothing else.

 

[iamironsam]

Originally posted by snoggle
There is general creepiness all around. When the game is released I recommend playing at night with the lights out and while naked.

With the AC on full blast, that'll be sure to get the hair on your balls standing on end.

 

[silent]

Originally posted by iamironsam
With the AC on full blast, that'll be sure to get the hair on your balls standing on end.

Or get your balls to shrink considerably so that when the neighborhood kid peers in your window he can tell all his friends that he saw this small sliver of flesh between your legs.

 

[ferd]

Same for HL2...it also gets me kinda creeped out, maybe even more intense in...actually allot more intense in a certain way.
I have just lost faith in ID, and i wouldnt get my hopes up for D3 to be as good or better as HL2.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

Originally posted by ferd
Same for HL2...it also gets me kinda creeped out, maybe even more intense in...actually allot more intense in a certain way.
I have just lost faith in ID, and i wouldnt get my hopes up for D3 to be as good or better as HL2.

Sounds like the same way I feel with Valve.

Id really just makes great technology demos that showcase their latest engine technology, it's the licensees that usually do the truly amazing stuff.

Valve has shipped one (1) real game in all of it's life as a developer and continues to shuck out mods and expansions for it. I've always hated companies that do all they can to milk a property dry. I am hoping that HL2 will turn that around for me.

 

[Styloid]

Originally posted by Unnamed_Player
Sounds like the same way I feel with Valve.

Id really just makes great technology demos that showcase their latest engine technology, it's the licensees that usually do the truly amazing stuff.

Valve has shipped one (1) real game in all of it's life as a developer and continues to shuck out mods and expansions for it. I've always hated companies that do all they can to milk a property dry. I am hoping that HL2 will turn that around for me.

I have high hopes for Doom3 because I hear lots about them using storyboards, scripted sequences and using continuous levels- sounds like HL1.
I think Valve has been milking HL1 but they've also been working on HL2 since HL1 was out so...

 

[OCybrManO]

Valve has kept updating HL for the same reason they made TFC and still update it... to keep the fans busy until HL2/TF2.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

Originally posted by Styloid
I have high hopes for Doom3 because I hear lots about them using storyboards, scripted sequences and using continuous levels- sounds like HL1.
I think Valve has been milking HL1 but they've also been working on HL2 since HL1 was out so...

I have high hopes for Doom 3 because I hear that Id hired a professional writer to do the story and a guy whose specialty is physics models. I think it'll be a cool game but to be honest I am more looking forward to what other developers and modders will do with the engine (and it'll be out for Linux which is just a bonus for me).

Valve has had every chance to ship something else. With all the developers they have working there I think there has been ample opportunity for something else to come out. I mean TF2 was supposed to be out in what, 2000? Then delay, delay, delay, then suddenly cancelled and now we find out it was never cancelled.

I'm happy that they're a bit anal about the quality but I think it's bunk that they have basically survived this long by repackaging the same game and it's expansions over and over again and selling free mods.

I hope that when HL2 does finally ship it's jaw dropping. Just like I want Doom 3 to be.

 

[OCybrManO]

Here is my explanation (some of it is just speculation)...

They supposedly started making TF2 and the Source engine at roughly the same time (though they did not plan on using the Source engine for TF2)... when it looked like the current engine wasn't suited for what they wanted to do with TF2 and it would be outdated by the time they finished it, they decided to move TF2 over to the Source engine, which was starting to take shape and would allow them much greater freedoms in the design of TF2.

They said it was cancelled because they didn't want anyone to know that they were switching it over to their amazing new engine.

Then, because of the move, they probably had to redo most of the content they had created (models needed higher polycounts, textures needed to higher resolutions, maps needed to be more detailed, sounds needed to be higher quality, blah blah blah) and a lot of the code... so they were likely in about the same position as HL2 was at the time, probably a bit behind (because the HL2 guys had already been working with the Source engine for a while and had learned the tools).

I think they will definately release TF2 next year at the latest... probably somewhere near the middle.

At least we have heard a couple of recent bits of info about it... unlike fans of a certain game that is also taking Forever to develop.

 

[Mac]

tick tock tick tock...

it was only a matter of time before this thread turned into a flame fest.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

I believe this is officially the longest thread I have ever started in any forum now.

 

[Unnamed_Player]

Just a note here: Max Payne 2 just got released and it is mouth wateringly close to those near fully destructible levels I was talking about (and it uses the same physics engine as HL2). Superb game!