Do's and Dont's

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UK_Karlos

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Ive desided that im better at maping maps for Counter-Strike:Source than for Half-Life 2. Could anyone tell me how i can make a good map or help me to improve my current map.
Its called cs_parkinglot..
Its a multi story car park, there are two stairwells on oppisite sides and two lifts in the center. One lift dosnt work so ppl can use it as a shaft to each floor. U are also able to walk up the car park via the road to the top floor.
The CTs start at the bottom floor and the terroists start at the top. The hostages will be located in a storage room at the top. There will be two ways in and one way out..
Hopfully i will have some screen shoots soon but its in the early stage..
Any other segestions.... Im trying to make it fair for both sides.
 
Yes, we know exactly how well your map works from a description without beta testing or even seeing an overview.
 
PsychoFreak said:
Yes, we know exactly how well your map works from a description without beta testing or even seeing an overview.
Click to expand...

Ive only just started beta testing and the bots dont know that there r doors 2 get 2 the stairs and they get stuck. and how do i update the nav mesh thing. Sorry no screenshoots typing on my psp my pc is in use..
 
Well... there's a do right there eh?

Post screens.

To get a nav mesh type nav_generate into console. If you are not happy with the mesh then type in nav_edit 1 and fix it yourself.

And it sounds like your map might be a killer on VIS. Thats a don't.
 
Here we are some Beta screens of cs_parkinglot. Its its still a work in progress but please comment....










 
Looks a tad bland, needs a bit detail IMO. And why is there a power generator in the parking lot?
 
Still need to do some of the details on each of the floors. im adding pipework and other stuff. the power generator is for the lift i couldnt find anythink smaller
 
Needs more varied lighting.

I mean that in colour sense.
 
Judgin from the skybox I cant help but thinking that I might be a bit tall for a parkinglot?
 
its set in a city but i carnt get the 3D skybox working properly. Im not using one at the moment..
Every time i create a small 3D skybox stick a sky_camera inside and then add some buidings, Compile the map and run it, i get the hall of mirrors effect but if i look over to where ive placed the skybox in hammer, the mirror effect stops and the skybox is all the way over in the distance.
Ive set the size thing to 5 i sort of calculated the size of the big skybox and matched it with the small one.
Ive even placed the the 3D skybox underneath my map but wirh no change. It will be off in the distance some where.
Any ideas

Edit: Im currently testing a beta version of my map with 20 bots. They seem to navigate ok. But they wont use the stairwell on oppisite side of the map nor will they climb ladders
 
The point in your skybox where your sky_camera is corresponds to the 0,0,0 (origin) coord in your map.

the usual skybox scale is 16. Which means that a brush in 4 units "east" of the sky_camera will appear to be 64 units to the east of your map origin.

So you will have to take that into concideration aswell, and place your skybox according to that if you havent already done that. What I usually do is build the skybox out of normal sized brushes around my map. I playtest it like that too. Then when I'm happy with what I see i put a sky_camera at the origin of my map. Then I select said camera and all the brushes I want to be in the skybox and move them and then scale them down as one. Then I make a nice little box of toolsskybox for them to live in. Works fine.

As for the bots, you will most likeley have to edit that nav file by hand to get the bots do behave properly. You do this in the game with various nav_ commands.

Nav_edit 1 lets you enter navigation edit and once in there all the nav_ commands are sort of self explanatory. I suggest binding the ones you find yourself using the most to unused keys on your keyboard so that the process is a bit faster.

Some good things & commands to know. Commands might not be exactly named like this. Just a few off the top of my head.

nav_save saves your mesh. CSS will NOT do this by itself and it will NOT prompt you for saves either.

nav_generate generates a new nav mesh. Usually quite badly and usually without ladders and whatnot. WILL REPLACE YOUR CURRENT MESH!

nav_analyze analyzes your mesh for choke points and camping spots etc etc.

nav_begin_area makes a new area with one if its corners at the spot where you are aiming.

nav_end_area sets the opposite corner and thus making a new area that the bots can move into.

nav_place_corner_on_ground will place all corners of selected area on the ground. NOTE this command will move corners DOWN, not up. Real good for stairs. Start making your area at the top of a flight of stairs and stretch the area all the way to the bottom. You will see that the area will not move up and down, only along the X and Y axis. use this command to get corners on the ground

nav_select. Selects the area you are looking at

nav_connect connects the area you are looking at with the one you have selected. NOTE just because area A is connected to area B does NOT mean that area B is connected to area A. Bots will concider this connection to be one way. They will move from A to B but not back.

nav_build_ladder. Will build a ladder and connect that to the areas founf on top of ladder as well as below. Make sure you add these areas before you make the ladder, makes things easier. You must be looking at a func_ladder to use this command.

There are a lot more commands than those to create specific bot behaviour and also to add places (the little "name" of where you are under the radar). Have fun trying them out.
 
Thanks that nav stuff helped alot..
But some bad news. im moving house and country in a few days. From the UK to Australia so my pc will be in storage for 4-6weeks thats if im lucky. But i will try to get a beta version of my map out by the end of the night or tomorrow
 
This keeps poping up in my compile log and is stopping vrad.exe from compiling.
I have VIS on fast and it hasnt caused any problems but when i add a sky_cam in a small skybox this is the compile log i get..

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\counter-strike source\cstrike" "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Aug 4 2006)
2 threads
materialPath: c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\counter-strike source\cstrike\materials
Loading C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.vmf
Can't find surfaceprop panel for material METAL/PRODVENTA, using default
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
Chop Details...done (0)
Find Visible Detail Sides...
Merged 160 detail faces...done (0)
Merging details...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (0)
writing C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.prt...done (0)
Creating default cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/militia_hdr*.vmt
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.

Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/militia_hdr*.vmt
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.

Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (0) (320850 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Error! Entity sky_camera in solid volume! Nothing is touching it. and the skybox is hollow


** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\counter-strike source\cstrike" -fast "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (May 22 2006)
fastvis = true
2 threads
reading c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.bsp
reading c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.prt
961 portalclusters
2849 numportals
BasePortalVis: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (1)
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
Optimized: 38184 visible clusters (0.00%)
Total clusters visible: 574632
Average clusters visible: 597
Building PAS...
Average clusters audible: 960
visdatasize:227552 compressed from 246016
writing c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.bsp
2 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk\bin\vrad.exe"
** Parameters: -both -game "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\counter-strike source\cstrike" "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot"

Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (May 22 2006)
----- Radiosity Simulator ----
2 threads
[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[1 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.bsp
5143 faces
1 degenerate faces
4020480 square feet [578949248.00 square inches]
182 displacements
35133 square feet [5059215.00 square inches]
5142 patches before subdivision
113306 patches after subdivision
DecompressVis: 0 repeat

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\karlos_58\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\Parkinglot.bsp" "c:\program files (x86)\steam\steamapps\karlos_58\counter-strike source\cstrike\maps\Parkinglot.bsp"
 
You've got the sky_camera in a solid...duh
 
Aww man. Just because I move to Australia in 2 weeks everyone dont have to follow me OK?
 
Dont add things to compile log. NEVER. comments go after.

The sky cam is messed up somehow. A hammer screen of it perhaps?
 
Ha, Back... Just moved country but dont have my pc to continue working on the map, but i did get the skybox working correctly. I deleted all skybox textures and the skycam and started again.. Ive added extra detail before i packed my pc, eg. A sprinkle system on the ceiling. and some pipe work that runs along the walls. But sorry no screenshots untill i get my pc.
Hopefully i will be able to release a beta version. Does anyone know of any good free sites where i can upload my map....
3 weeks or so untill i get my pc back
 
I've been out of mapping for a few months now but I can still throw the odd tips around. In general when mapping for CSS you want at least 2-4 ways of getting to a destination, this helps alleviate choke points and ads a layer of strategy to the map.

You also want varied lighting and textures that fit the settings and flow smoothly from one room to the other.
 
Yeah i have,Ive got four ways to get to the top floors to reach the hostages.

1. You can take the long way up by walking up each floor via the road.
2. There is a lift mantaince access which leads to the hostages.
3 and 4. There are two stairwells that lead to every floor.

Running the map with 20 bots is cool as you can see how well the map works. And it is a fair map, With me as a spectator and 20bots fighting each other the rounds are even. Each round last about 2min, and ive left the game running for a while and the rounds turn out to be CT21-T23.

Edit....
Ive also added a different skybox and have compiled the map in HDR aswell and added different lighting. It has a working 3D skybox...
Also i have a fire on one of the levels, how do i stop the smoke going through the upper floors. It is a env_fire
 
Go to the flags under the env_fire's properties and check the box that says "Smokeless".
 
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