Double-standards in racist attacks

[Solaris]

It just all adds up. For example, I think repriV is a decent guy but at the same time when the same person complaining of anti-white racism also likes to talk about how people from Africa are less intelligent and so have inferior genetics... It makes me very uncomfortable.

Is it just a co-incidence that the people who talk about 'double standards' also go for this genetically inferiority rubbish, most probably he's anti-immigration, or at least believes it's "out of control". Probably thinks we have too many asylum seekers
and that it's not our responsibility to help them. Probably he's anti-positive discrimination too. "Political correctness gone mad". Whilst on their own, holding one of these opinions doesn't bother me, it really bothers me how someone who believes one most likely believes a few of the others. Once more, these are all the sort of opinions your average racist BNP thug would hold.

Which makes me wonder, are the people who say these things, often starting with "I'm not a racist but..."; are they closet racists?

 

[Tyguy]

there are no sematics here ..just which information you choose to accept and which you choose to reject ..the fact is that there IS a double standard ..but it works both ways, despite whatever people want to believe. Anyone who points the finger exclusively to one side is only getting half the picture and, as I often suspect just pushing a specific agenda

I would say that is the summation of the entire thread, and quite frankly true

 

[repiV]

this is what you do, you're point is proven to be false and you pretend like it didnt happened

No, I'm just confused as hell because half the time I have no idea what you're referring to. It doesn't help that you regularly go off on tangets I don't follow because you misinterpreted what I said in the first place.

so because you yourself cant possibly come up with some other explanation it MUST be racially motivated ..completely illgical

oh I dont know, pride, greed, jealosy, envy, shame, revenge, apathy ..it could be a number of reasons ..you cant possibly quantify a statement like that without actually providing facts and figures that support your case ..to say that your "guess" that a majority is race related is a gross oversimplification and outright disinformation ..provide sources or it's just a lot of hot air

Well, pride, jealousy, envy and shame would all ultimately boil down to racial hatred too.
How on earth would official sources be of any use in this issue, since if there is a double standard then racially motivated crime against whites will be vastly under-reported anyway?
The incident I originally posted about will not be recorded as a race-related crime, but it damn well was.
You only have to live for a while and follow the news to realise that, in fact, there is a double standard. Even if this particular crime wasn't racially motivated, you can be damn sure it would be presented as such if the tables were turned and the kids would be strung up for it.

process of elimination, you said countries with more white people are more successful you didnt provide a reason what else am I to think?

No I didn't, I said countries with more white people and/or more East Asians are more successful.
You could try taking it on face value, as it is the truth after all - you made a huge assumption here, which suggests that maybe you have some racist tendencies of your own.
Is it now suspicious to state simple facts? What kind of democracy do we live in?

really? sounds to me like you didnt read your own article:

he specifically identifies "sub sahara" ..translation: blacks

So? He's absolutely correct. Sub-Saharan Africa is the poorest, stupidest region of the world. The Middle East is positively enlightened by comparison. Why do you have a problem with that? I thought you liked to deal in facts, not fantasies.

and this?

what the hell could he possibly be saying?

That the more white or East Asian blood, the more money. Which is, again, correct. You should stop making so many assumptions - after all, this guy lives in Mexico, spent many years in Taiwan, hates Bush and the cultural and intellectual vacuum of modern day America. You have more in common than you think, but you just can't see it because he actually has original opinions. He's no redneck.

give me a ****ing break, he doesnt speak in truths, he oversimplifies the issues for the slope browed set who eat it up like it's their freakin last meal

No, saying that the white man keeps Africa down is oversimplifying the issues. Saying that terrorists hate us for our freedom is oversimplifying the issues. Personally, I've never heard a political opinion from you that I haven't heard in the Guardian or some other leftist excuse for journalism. I don't think you have any place to be calling him shallow.

give me a ****ing break for the love of all that's ****ing goddam holy ..poor whitey has it bad ..what country do you live in, in what reality? I've been white my entire life and not once have I been discriminated against ..ok that's not true ..it happened twice ..but by WHITE PEOPLE!!! ..I wasnt a jew and I wasnt russian, that's good enough for them to have discriminated against me ...therefore from my experiences and according to your warped logic .."I'm freaking sick and tired of white people discriminating against white people"

We don't need to have it bad to be the target of racism. The populist view that the white man is responsible for all the world's ills is racist by its sheer ignorance and inaccuracy, and so are all the racist policies it creates - affirmative action, government-funded associations for minorities and so on.
We have a Black Police Association, a fundamentally racist organisation that is, to my knowledge, funded by the government. It has been government policy to turn people away from the police force because they're "not representative of their community" (ie. they're too white), as well as other government positions.
We spend way over the odds to help minorities out, and we legislate over the odds to "protect" them at the expense of everyone else. The concept of the white man keeping the black man down is absurd beyond belief. A complete myth.
We live in a racist society alright - racist against white people, prejudiced against successful people, sexist against men and scornful of intelligent people. There's a hell of a lot more reverse snobbery going on here than the traditional kind. Quite frankly, I'm sick of it.

extremely sound? what 9th grader doesnt know that poor countries are often corrupt? or that people take bribes ...oooooooo insightful almost to the point of being a genius ..oversimplified pap

So if you don't disagree with him, what exactly is your point?
Obviously it is pretty profound, since most people are content to just blame everything on America and leave it at that.

that's like saying "I know what you are but what am I" ...I dont assume unless I've been given a reason to believe the person is implying something ..you just outright shove words down my throat

Well, you did shove words down my throat. I'm also confused as to how you can even consider calling me a racist when I've repeatedly pointed out that East Asians are smarter than white people, and British-born Indians are the most successful ethnic group within our society.
Reality does not have to favour minority groups 100% of the time.

there are no sematics here ..just which information you choose to accept and which you choose to reject ..the fact is that there IS a double standard ..but it works both ways, despite whatever people want to believe. Anyone who points the finger exclusively to one side is only getting half the picture and, as I often suspect just pushing a specific agenda

Well, most people point the finger exclusively at the big bad white man. I'd like to know what you actually think of the issue, since that remains a mystery to me. What's your explanation for racial inequality both in Western countries and across the world?

I'm always extremely suspicious of people who say the "racism works both ways" things and talk about 'anti-white' racist attacks.
Mainly becuase the vast majority of people who say this stuff are racists themselves, the BNP talk about it a lot for example.

So we should only acknowledge racism when it's perpetrated by white people? That's a nonsensical, racist opinion in itself. I find it rather worrying that you're suspicious of people who tell the truth.

And I just get this feeling that it's bullshit, I've never suffered racist abuse in my life, but I see it and hear anti-Asian abuse at least once a week in my deprived UK town. Someone spray painted 'Pakis' on the local shop window, some asain guy got stabbed by white youths last year in my town and died. I have no doubt it's for racial reasons. People at my school say 'paki' all the time.

Even if there are asians going round beating up people for being white, it's certainly not as bad as the other way round. Because I don't care how many asians are racists becuase I belong to the largest ethnic group, I'll never have to worry about not finding work becuase of my race, or being spat on in the streets regually or anything like that. Certainly not to the same degree asains do.

So you live with a bunch of white trash. That doesn't give you the right to sit there and basically deny that racism against white people ever happens, that's just insane.
And yes, you may very well have to worry about not finding work because of your race - we call it "positive discrimination".

It pisses me off how ****ing stupid some of the racist assholes I meet on a daily basis are : "I hate pakis, they're ignorant" "There's no black is the union jack" I don't know how much longer I can put off punching someone in the face when they say "paki" casually in a conversation.

Yes, you live with a bunch of stupid white trash - we get it.

It just all adds up. For example, I think repriV is a decent guy but at the same time when the same person complaining of anti-white racism also likes to talk about how people from Africa are less intelligent and so have inferior genetics... It makes me very uncomfortable.

When have I ever claimed that people from Africa have inferior genetics?
I've never said that, not once, not ever.

Is it just a co-incidence that the people who talk about 'double standards' also go for this genetically inferiority rubbish, most probably he's anti-immigration, or at least believes it's "out of control". Probably thinks we have too many asylum seekers
and that it's not our responsibility to help them. Probably he's anti-positive discrimination too. "Political correctness gone mad". Whilst on their own, holding one of these opinions doesn't bother me, it really bothers me how someone who believes one most likely believes a few of the others. Once more, these are all the sort of opinions your average racist BNP thug would hold.

So, let me get this straight - you support positive discrimination?
That makes you, in clear-cut terms, a racist in the purest sense of the word. You actually support denying opportunities to people on the basis of their race.
You have no business whatsoever calling anyone a racist.

Which makes me wonder, are the people who say these things, often starting with "I'm not a racist but..."; are they closet racists?

Well, I'm speaking to an open racist...against his own race, no less.

 

[Mr Stabby]

There are racists in every race, it's not new information, white racists/supremacists are viewed as more serious because whitey still runs the world.

 

[CptStern]

There are racists in every race, it's not new information, white racists/supremacists are viewed as more serious because whitey still runs the world.

be careful repiV will accuse you of propagating that urban myth that the white man keeps da black man down ..whitey doesnt run the world, black people only want you to think that so as to excuse themselves the next time they gang rape a white woman :rolling:

repiV: I'll get to your post when I get a chance

 

[repiV]

be careful repiV will accuse you of propagating that urban myth that the white man keeps da black man down ..whitey doesnt run the world, black people only want you to think that so as to excuse themselves the next time they gang rape a white woman :rolling:

On the contrary, the white man does run the world. I simply refuse to be ashamed of that fact, or pretend that the success of Western civilisation is due to some other factor rather than our cultural and intellectual superiority just to assuage some kind of imagined guilt.
European society, in the grand scheme of things, is an incredible accomplishment and it's about time people realised that instead of wallowing in this ridiculous self-loathing. There was a time when people respected their history and traditions. Enough of the double-think.

repiV: I'll get to your post when I get a chance

No problem.

 

[CptStern]

we're superior ..it must be in our genes, therefore we should enslave the mud people because they are inferior to us

I want a whole family of mud people to do my bidding ..I'll train the youngest to attack unprotected ankles with their sharp little incisors, with the gnashing and the blood and the hey hey

 

[repiV]

we're superior ..it must be in our genes, therefore we should enslave the mud people because they are inferior to us

I want a whole family of mud people to do my bidding ..I'll train the youngest to attack unprotected ankles with their sharp little incisors, with the gnashing and the blood and the hey hey

Well, you said it. Have fun with that.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I somewhat agree with repiV, racist attacks by whites, are viewed as more serious by the media etc.. This is because White political racism ie the BNP, is far more serious than any black or Asian supremacist group.

I think the attacks should be classed as normal cases of assault. I don't see the need for hate crime laws. It shouldn't be illegal for someone to hold racist views ( right and wrong beliefs shouldn't be dictated by law), and it's already illegal to cause violence.

 

[CptStern]

this switching back and forth between the UK and America is making me dizzy

America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
America!
UK
AMERIKA!!!
YOU - KAY!!!

 

[kineaesth]

NEW ZEALAND!

 

[Solaris]

Well positive discrimination is different.

It's about making sure the police for example does not become a racist organization, which it has been. It's very important that the police represents the people it 'protects'.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I think it's more important, that they get the best qualified people rather than having token quotas.

 

[repiV]

Well positive discrimination is different.

It's about making sure the police for example does not become a racist organization, which it has been. It's very important that the police represents the people it 'protects'.

It's not different at all. It's discrimination on the basis of race, it's as simple as that.
Not only that, but positive discrimination is not limited to organisations like the police. In America, you find it everywhere from university applications to the workplace.
We have state school quotas for universities, which is class discrimination and just as unacceptable. An example of the reverse snobbery that's so ingrained in our culture these days that I mentioned earlier.

Let me ask you a question - would you support discriminating against ethnic minority applications to the police force in areas of the country that are 99.9% white? If not, why not? Given your explanation that the police have to represent the people they serve, you can't possibly disagree.

And another - isn't it pretty racist to assume that white people have to be policed by white people, black people have to be policed by black people and so on?
I thought we were supposed to be creating an integrated society where race is irrelevant. By your own admission, that isn't happening and we have a failed experiment on our hands. You want to exacerbate the problem by encouraging segregation of services.
I don't give a shit what colour the police I come into contact with are, and not just because they all suck equally. If immigrant groups do have that problem, they should go back home because they obviously aren't willing to be a part of our society and are the real racists in our midst.

Policies like positive discrimination aren't just racist towards the people they discriminate against, either. They create a situation where race is the defining factor - and that's completely against the spirit of freedom and meritocracy that a modern, capitalist democracy is all about.

Race is not important. People that use racism as an excuse or a crutch, and others who see imaginary racism everywhere and try and get rid of it with more racism - it's these people who tear our society apart.
It's all nonsense because the differences are cultural. The rich black stockbroker has a lot more in common with the middle-class white folk in this country than he does with dem bros in da 'hood. You saying he represents the ghetto just because of the colour of his skin?

Seriously, you need to take a real inward look at your beliefs here. If you deserve the opportunity, you deserve it - it doesn't matter what colour you are. We shouldn't be turning to social engineering to make it so that the figures are more even. Our society is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

 

[Absinthe]

Well said.

 

[Mr Stabby]

If you deserve the opportunity, you deserve it - it doesn't matter what colour you are. We shouldn't be turning to social engineering to make it so that the figures are more even. Our society is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

That's too much like capitalism

 

[repiV]

Well said.

Thanks.

That's too much like capitalism

Don't worry, when the entrepreneurs assault you, we'll give you the best hospital treatment Cuba has to offer...

 

[theotherguy]

repriV, ever read Native Son?

Read that, and you will realize how far we've come even since the 40's, and how recent such hatred and racism is. It was practically just yesterday that black men were being unjustly lynched in the south and horribly segregated in the north.

Hate crimes against whites are more common than hate crimes against blacks?

Tell that to the KKK, the Neo-Nazis, the American Legion.

The vehicles of hate and violence towards blacks have been and still are present today. It is only in the last few decades that the gates have been nailed shut on the cage of those monstrous racist organizations.

 

[theotherguy]

I somewhat agree with repiV, racist attacks by whites, are viewed as more serious by the media etc.. This is because White political racism ie the BNP, is far more serious than any black or Asian supremacist group.

I think the attacks should be classed as normal cases of assault. I don't see the need for hate crime laws. It shouldn't be illegal for someone to hold racist views ( right and wrong beliefs shouldn't be dictated by law), and it's already illegal to cause violence.

Hate crime laws persist, because when racism is present in the nation it is also present in the courts, and where no laws exist to specifically punish racist crime, racist judges and jurors will exploit the existing system to give unfair sentences to minorities.

 

[repiV]

repriV, ever read Native Son?

Read that, and you will realize how far we've come even since the 40's, and how recent such hatred and racism is. It was practically just yesterday that black men were being unjustly lynched in the south and horribly segregated in the north.

Hate crimes against whites are more common than hate crimes against blacks?

Tell that to the KKK, the Neo-Nazis, the American Legion.

The vehicles of hate and violence towards blacks have been and still are present today. It is only in the last few decades that the gates have been nailed shut on the cage of those monstrous racist organizations.

I'm fully aware of how recent institutionalised racism in the US is, but several decades ago is not today. What is this, some kind of sick delayed vengeance against the white man?
Blacks in the US today have just as many opportunities as everyone else, and in some ways more, because they're given opportunities they don't deserve in the name of "affirmative action".
The inequality is their fault, not ours. Black street culture looks down upon academic success, respectability, intelligence, the English language, and if you do make something of yourself, you're "sellin' out to the man".
Handing out welfare only makes the problem worse. And it's certainly not my problem to deal with.
It's strikingly obvious why blacks perform poorly against other ethnic groups - the only way to make anything of yourself if you're raised in that culture is to break free from it. Ever noticed that the well-off black guys you see don't act black? Nobody's going to hire someone who dresses like 50 Cent, has no ambition or direction, thinks you're the evil man that's keeping him down and drawls "yo yo yo ma homie".
The obstacles that must be overcome by blacks raised in the 'hood in order to become successful are very similar to the challenges facing someone born into a deeply religious household. Only, the stakes are far higher because you don't have to publically renounce your religion in order to get on with your own life - you can live with the lie, but you do have to turn your back on your friends, your family, your life as you know it and existence as you understand it in order to become successful as a black man born into a black urban environment. Black culture is almost like a cult that does everything in its power to keep its own population poor and destitute. They don't have a chance in hell because they have every incentive to stay poor. The cost of making it is usually not worth it. That, right there, is the reason blacks are so unsuccessful in the USA, and to a lesser extent, here.
And I find the suggestion that white people are responsible for this situation to be downright insulting, both personally and to the minorities who are successful in our society - Indians never needed our charity, and they surpass us in every Western measure of success. Good on them.
The Fresh Prince of Bel Air actually deals with the issues at hand in an excellent way.
I come from a very poor, very troubled background too, but it hasn't stopped me from making something of my life. So frankly, I've got **** all sympathy for people who wallow in their own laziness and ineptitude and blame it all on "the man". You control your own destiny, whether you're black, white, green or purple. That's the beauty of capitalism.
And I've got no time whatsoever for champagne socialists who think they have all the answers but actually know **** all about what it's like on the streets, because they have never experienced any real hardship themselves. Those who shout the loudest about diversity least practice it, and those who complain the most about racism and poverty have the least experience of it.

 

[Pesmerga]

What should you say when you wake up in the middle of the night and see your TV floating out of the window?

 

[Nemesis6]

What should you say when you wake up in the middle of the night and see your TV floating out of the window?

"Aw, shit! Wassup' dawg?" or possibly "Oh, no, he di'nt!"

 

[Mr Stabby]

Hate crime laws persist, because when racism is present in the nation it is also present in the courts, and where no laws exist to specifically punish racist crime, racist judges and jurors will exploit the existing system to give unfair sentences to minorities.

Whether a crime is a hate crime is still open to discretion, so there is no point in it.

 

[Eejit]

Don't worry, when the entrepreneurs assault you, we'll give you the best hospital treatment Cuba has to offer...

Meh poor example, funny thing is health care is something Cuba does actually do quite well :rolling:

 

[repiV]

Meh poor example, funny thing is health care is something Cuba does actually do quite well :rolling:

You're welcome to it.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

yep, Cuba does health care well, that's why Castro went to Spain for his health problems

 

[Pesmerga]

yep, Cuba does health care well, that's why Castro went to Spain for his health problems

Fidel Castro didn't go to Spain to receive treatment, a Spanish surgeon came to Cuba. And that has nothing to do with Cuba's financial ability to give healthcare.

God dammit you're just full of stupid.

 

[Nemesis6]

Fidel Castro didn't go to Spain to receive treatment, a Spanish surgeon came to Cuba. And that has nothing to do with Cuba's financial ability to give healthcare.

God dammit you're just full of stupid.

I'm not at all into the technicalities of healthcare, but I'd think that at least some of it would include access to qualified surgeons. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

yea, it's the same either way. Point is, he didn't trust a fellow cuban.

 

[Eejit]

Point is he wanted the very very best he could get, being a ruler and everthing... That doesn't mean Cuban surgeons aren't adequate or even good, just that the Spanish one was nearer the top of his field for that particular treatment.

How about you pull that propaganda out your ear and install a brain instead? Because really, that's all the two of you just spewed in the last 3 posts, without a single pause for thought between you.

 

[theotherguy]

I'm fully aware of how recent institutionalised racism in the US is, but several decades ago is not today. What is this, some kind of sick delayed vengeance against the white man?
Blacks in the US today have just as many opportunities as everyone else, and in some ways more, because they're given opportunities they don't deserve in the name of "affirmative action".

What opportunities does anyone "not deserve"? Your argument itself is rooted in bigotry.

The inequality is their fault, not ours. Black street culture looks down upon academic success, respectability, intelligence, the English language, and if you do make something of yourself, you're "sellin' out to the man".

Do you think it is possible that "street culture" itself is a product of racial inequality? That, since they are denied educational and economic opportunity, poor blacks fall into the spiral of decay which grabs so many people in the lower class? How much different is the "black street culture" to the white "trailer trash" culture?

I believe that this divide is due to class, not to race.

Handing out welfare only makes the problem worse. And it's certainly not my problem to deal with.
It's strikingly obvious why blacks perform poorly against other ethnic groups - the only way to make anything of yourself if you're raised in that culture is to break free from it. Ever noticed that the well-off black guys you see don't act black? Nobody's going to hire someone who dresses like 50 Cent, has no ambition or direction, thinks you're the evil man that's keeping him down and drawls "yo yo yo ma homie".

Again, the difference is rooted in class, not in race. It's not that successful blacks don't act "black", its that they don't fit your bigoted racist stereotype of the poor urban black. Obviously successful people don't disdain education and fear "selling out" or else they wouldn't be successful, and it seems clear to me that people born into poverty are more susceptible to these thoughts than people born into privilege.

The obstacles that must be overcome by blacks raised in the 'hood in order to become successful are very similar to the challenges facing someone born into a deeply religious household. Only, the stakes are far higher because you don't have to publically renounce your religion in order to get on with your own life - you can live with the lie, but you do have to turn your back on your friends, your family, your life as you know it and existence as you understand it in order to become successful as a black man born into a black urban environment. Black culture is almost like a cult that does everything in its power to keep its own population poor and destitute. They don't have a chance in hell because they have every incentive to stay poor. The cost of making it is usually not worth it. That, right there, is the reason blacks are so unsuccessful in the USA, and to a lesser extent, here.

So, quite flatly, you are implying that blacks want to to be poor? That's utterly absurd.

And you also suggest, that in order to be successful, blacks must give up their heritage and culture? That they must, as many bigoted men such as yourself have said in the past, disappear into white society?

Black culture is not to blame here. Your hatred and fear of black culture is completely misconstrued. You create a strawman, a stereotype "bad ******" on which you throw your blind assertions.

Blacks are unsuccessful because their fathers were unsuccessful, and because their fathers were unsuccessful and because their fathers were unsuccessful and because their fathers were slaves.

If white men were stolen and imprisoned by a nation more powerful than we, and were forced into labor for two hundred years, discriminated against, spit on, hanged, lynched, I do not doubt that we would have a hard time crawling out of that muck. We'd fair no better than the blacks have.

And I find the suggestion that white people are responsible for this situation to be downright insulting, both personally and to the minorities who are successful in our society - Indians never needed our charity, and they surpass us in every Western measure of success. Good on them.

Of course white people are responsible for the situation. To deny it is not only naiive but malignant. We brought the blacks here. We enslaved them. We kept them from education, from jobs, from voting, from holding public office, from partaking in all parts of life. We denied them opportunity for hundreds of years. It is no surprise that just 50 years after the most major oppression has ended, they are still only recovering.

Indians? As in, Native Americans or people from India? In the case of people from India, they were never enslaved, had a well-developed civilized nation as a base. Indians were generally immigrants who by definition had the desire and means to succeed in another country, where as Africans were forced captives and their sons enslaved inhabitants. I hardly see the parallel at all.

As for Native Americans, they were utterly destroyed by the whites and now live on mostly at the expense of the state in reservations.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air actually deals with the issues at hand in an excellent way.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is hardly an example of reality.

I come from a very poor, very troubled background too, but it hasn't stopped me from making something of my life. So frankly, I've got **** all sympathy for people who wallow in their own laziness and ineptitude and blame it all on "the man". You control your own destiny, whether you're black, white, green or purple. That's the beauty of capitalism.
And I've got no time whatsoever for champagne socialists who think they have all the answers but actually know **** all about what it's like on the streets, because they have never experienced any real hardship themselves. Those who shout the loudest about diversity least practice it, and those who complain the most about racism and poverty have the least experience of it.

And that, right there, is the heart of social conservatism. Bigoted people blaming others for personal faults when the real issues are overarching social and demographic issues.

How successful do you think you really are? How poor do you think you really were? How much of that success came from your own hard work and how much from luck, family, and position?

I posit to you that if you had been richer, you would be a hundred fold more successful. You'd go to better schools, get a better job, live in a better home. The fact of the matter is, no matter what the personality of the person, Horatio Algers are rare and Bigger Thomas' common. The social atmosphere in which a person is raised and socialized has a huge effect on their future success.

 

[mastapenguin]

^ Well said.

To add to it, I'd like to make the following point. Today's black parents and grandparents WERE oppressed. They did, indeed, grow up in an environment where they were belittled and put down by the bigoted white people around them. They formed their own beliefs that Caucasians were not to be trusted, that blacks had to demonstrate solidarity to stand up to their oppressors. And for the most part, they were right.

The problem is, since many of them never left the projects BECAUSE of that oppression, those same beliefs endured to the next generation. And when equal rights groups rose up and won opportunities for everyone, the same beliefs still persisted. That's why today's black culture insists that it is still oppressed, when for the most part it is untrue.


As far as I can tell, the best way to fix the problem is to bring education to poor areas, giving teachers incentives and providing better facilities. Of course, you'd have to let up some money from other programs, like say... the multi-billion dollar defense budget.

 

[repiV]

What opportunities does anyone "not deserve"? Your argument itself is rooted in bigotry.

You don't deserve to get offered a job if you aren't the best applicant for the position, and you don't deserve to get a place at university if you don't make the grade.
What the hell did you think I was referring to?

Do you think it is possible that "street culture" itself is a product of racial inequality?

No. Next question.

Again, the difference is rooted in class, not in race. It's not that successful blacks don't act "black", its that they don't fit your bigoted racist stereotype of the poor urban black. Obviously successful people don't disdain education and fear "selling out" or else they wouldn't be successful, and it seems clear to me that people born into poverty are more susceptible to these thoughts than people born into privilege.

I don't have a "bigoted racist stereotype of the poor urban black". Get off your arrogant ****ing high horse.
Many Asians come to this country poor as a church mouse, but somehow their kids usually manage to become rich and successful. Success is primarily about attitude, not how much money you were born into.
My best friend came here when she was 11, from Tamil-controlled Sri Lanka. They lived in conditions that you or I could not imagine, and their lives were in danger on a daily basis due to living in a warzone.
She couldn't speak a word of English when she came here, yet I met her when she was 16 and she spoke like a BBC newsreader. She's destined for great things.
So think again.

So, quite flatly, you are implying that blacks want to to be poor? That's utterly absurd.

Why don't you try actually reading my post instead?

And you also suggest, that in order to be successful, blacks must give up their heritage and culture? That they must, as many bigoted men such as yourself have said in the past, disappear into white society?

Black culture is not to blame here. Your hatred and fear of black culture is completely misconstrued. You create a strawman, a stereotype "bad ******" on which you throw your blind assertions.

Blacks are unsuccessful because their fathers were unsuccessful, and because their fathers were unsuccessful and because their fathers were unsuccessful and because their fathers were slaves.

If white men were stolen and imprisoned by a nation more powerful than we, and were forced into labor for two hundred years, discriminated against, spit on, hanged, lynched, I do not doubt that we would have a hard time crawling out of that muck. We'd fair no better than the blacks have.

That's absurd beyond belief. What kind of ignorant moron would actually believe that black people today are poor because their distant ancestors were slaves?
That makes absolutely no sense. There is every opportunity available to black people in the US today, they just aren't taking advantage of those opportunities.

Of course white people are responsible for the situation. To deny it is not only naiive but malignant. We brought the blacks here. We enslaved them. We kept them from education, from jobs, from voting, from holding public office, from partaking in all parts of life. We denied them opportunity for hundreds of years. It is no surprise that just 50 years after the most major oppression has ended, they are still only recovering.

They have education, jobs, voting, the ability to hold public office and to partake in all parts of life today. They are even offered extra opportunities purely on the basis of their race.
Furthermore, blacks underperform to a similar degree in all Western nations, and guess what? We don't have slavery in our recent history, nor segregation, like you did. So, you are flat-out wrong. And incredibly naive, to boot.

Indians? As in, Native Americans or people from India? In the case of people from India, they were never enslaved, had a well-developed civilized nation as a base. Indians were generally immigrants who by definition had the desire and means to succeed in another country, where as Africans were forced captives and their sons enslaved inhabitants. I hardly see the parallel at all.

As for Native Americans, they were utterly destroyed by the whites and now live on mostly at the expense of the state in reservations.

People from India. Shockingly enough, we don't have too many Native Americans in the UK. Newsflash: India is not a well-developed nation, and in only very recent history it was a hell of a lot poorer than it is today.
I've never met any forced captives, or enslaved inhabitants - only black people brought into the exact same degree of freedom and opportunity that everyone else in our society enjoys. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The Fresh Prince of Bel Air is hardly an example of reality.

*sigh*
You miss the point. As Will once pointed out, back in Philly he had to have his friend as a bodyguard when he smuggled books home from school in a pizza box, because he would get jumped on a daily basis for daring to try and learn something.
Or when Carlton wasn't let into the fraternity because he wasn't "black enough", and he was labelled a sissy sell-out.
TV show or not, the issues within aren't dreamt up out of pure fantasy. That's black culture for you.
Oh, and by the way, it's a semi-autobiographical take on Will Smith's early life. So, yes, there is a degree of actual reality to it.

And that, right there, is the heart of social conservatism. Bigoted people blaming others for personal faults when the real issues are overarching social and demographic issues.

If the real issues are "overarching social and demographic issues", why are you so completely unable to actually explain these issues? You insist that evil forces are conspiring to keep black people down, but you can't identify any of them. You make vague references to ancestors and discrimination, but can't quantify any of it. Put simply, you're just bullshitting out of your arse. And somehow you believe calling me a bigot (wrong, kid) makes your opinion more valid.

How successful do you think you really are? How poor do you think you really were? How much of that success came from your own hard work and how much from luck, family, and position?

Put it this way, we couldn't afford to eat three times a day and we never actually had any carpets in our home. The furniture was mis-matched shit from here, there and everywhere and the only clothes we had were hand-me-downs from extended family.
People wouldn't come to visit because our council estate was so violent, and we received death threats on a regular basis.
Now, not only was I poor in the economic sense, I also had to deal with numerous other problems. An alcoholic father who used to sit on me as a means of punishment when I was like five years old, couldn't work due to disability and never did any actual fathering, a brother with severe learning difficulties and I myself was diagnosed with epilepsy when I was 13. The seizures were so frequent and so violent I had no life, and I've got permanently weakened arms as a result. I spent half my life in hospital. They eventually found a medication combination that worked for me, but by that time I'd already dropped out of school due to deep depression and became a social recluse who didn't go outside for months at a time. I didn't even talk to anybody.
I missed three years of school, and the equivalent situation in your country would be that I never graduated.
It took me seven years to get over the fact that I would never be able to fulfil any of my life dreams - fighter pilot, paramedic, marines...I had no life or future that I cared about, for a very long time.
After being off school for so long, the state dragged me into a place that's called a "Pupil Referral Unit". It's a place they put troubled kids, usually expelled, to keep them off the streets. I went there for a year - so, being someone that didn't even know how to talk to my own family, I was thrown into an environment full of violent thugs that were kicked out of school time after time after time, and where English lessons involved watching the video because most of them were too stupid to read the book. I learned more important things there than I could ever have learned by actually going to school.
I did go to private school for a couple of years, not because we could afford it, but because my stepnan paid for the education as I got nothing out of state schooling. And it was full of clueless, snobby rich kids who weren't even particularly bright half the time. So yeah, I've seen the different sides of society in a way that you simply haven't. I know what I'm talking about, because I've been there.
I also suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a police officer who was my dad's best friend since they were four years old, for eight years. He abused dozens of kids, but he's now in jail, thanks to me.
Despite all this, I went to college, I gradually relearned social skills over a period of years and I got top grades. I'm now a confident, outgoing person and if I want something I make sure I get it. But now my mother is dying from terminal cancer and I can't even do shit for anybody in the family right now because I'm disabled for several months due to a motorbike accident.
So **** you and the horse you rode in on. You're a clueless, naive kid who sees the world through rose-tinted spectacles, and I ain't gonna listen to any "wisdom" about poverty from someone like you. I made something of myself. Nobody cut me a break, the only good luck I've ever had is in my intelligence. I'm not some ****ing result of a series of happy accidents, and noone showed me the way. I did exactly what you seem to think is impossible, and with a lot more stacked against me than most poor people have. So you'll excuse me if I have little tolerance for your pansy, bleeding-heart "the rich white man consolidates his power by keeping the black man poor" bullshit.
Some people have it harder than others, but all have the opportunity to make it in our society. The only limiting factor is YOU. Victimhood only strikes those who are willing to be victims.
Our society is so stricken with insanity like political correctness these days because of the masses of weak-minded, soft people like you who think hardship is some kind of human rights violation. Life is tough, ****ing deal with it.

I posit to you that if you had been richer, you would be a hundred fold more successful. You'd go to better schools, get a better job, live in a better home. The fact of the matter is, no matter what the personality of the person, Horatio Algers are rare and Bigger Thomas' common.

Bullshit. You can never have true wisdom, insight and character by living an easy life. I wouldn't be half the person I am if I had been richer, and it certainly wouldn't have helped me to get a better job.
I gave it up because it was the wrong company for me and I had too many other things to deal with at the time (like my mum's illness), but a few months ago I was earning the equivalent of over $60,000. I was good at my job, and I will have no problem returning to that career path when I've recovered from my accident. I'm only 21. Most people don't earn that kind of cash until their 40s, if they ever do.

The social atmosphere in which a person is raised and socialized has a huge effect on their future success.

Then you have just agreed with me - it's the culture they're born into that's responsible for their failure. That's what "social atmosphere" is. Nothing to do with "wider social issues". Certainly not the fault of the middle class or whatever shit you'd like to dress it up as.