Drug talk clarification

[TechnoHippyChic]

Despite Tr0n's short-lived thread, I think he made a certain tounge-in-cheek point. I'm sad that the psychadelic experiences thread got closed, I think it's something important to discuss.

Hopefully all you meant, Munro, was don't be stupid and self-incriminate yourself, or am I wrong? Is there a new decree of no talk of the subject whatsoever?

 

[Danimal]

Well, we're not allowed to generally talk about illegal topics. So why should drug-taking be an exception?

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

It's been fairly openly discussed in the past.

 

[Danimal]

Yes, well, that's fault on my own part. Usually when I see Ennui post in those threads (And I assume the decisions of Super Mods are > mine.), then I don't touch it.

 

[bbson john]

But I topic like "do you like drug?" is really kinda over.

 

[sinkoman]

Well, it's one thing to maturely discuss the subject matter, comparing experiences, and discussing the morales behind the laws behind the substances.

It's entirely another to run out screaming "OH HAI I LIEK WEEDS".

 

[Ennui]

Yeah, but sinkoman, like TechnoHippyChic said, that was clearly just Tr0n trying to make a point (which he did). It's slightly irresponsible for me to post in said threads, but at the same time it seems that there is a relatively high level of ambiguity surrounding the entire topic.

First, it's a fact that most of the forum regulars here drink alcohol on occasion. It's also a fact that a large percentage of us smoke marijuana, whether frequently or not. A smaller portion (yet still sizeable) also participates in further levels of experimentation. Morally speaking, there's nothing wrong with these threads, and if anyone cares to dispute that or this next assertion I will gladly refine my point.

Second, it is not in any way illegal to discuss drugs or discuss doing drugs. There is no precedent for any sort of legal action being taken even on a major drug forum or website - yahooka.com and bluelight.nu both have tens of thousands of members and the forum is dedicated to drug use. This is so far under the radar that legal repercussions are nigh impossible, aside from the fact that even if it wasn't under the radar they would still not be an issue.

Third, there have been high-profile drug-related threads on this forum through its entire history - ever since 2003. Some of them are about drug use, some are about stories, some are argumentative, but the fact remains that there have been over a dozen huge topics about it. We're talking probably thousands of posts total in these threads. They are usually eventually closed, but only because they tend to erupt into flaming due to people's strong feelings about the subject. Thus, there is a fantastic amount of precedent for this sort of thread.

What I'm saying is that the only reason I can see these topics being banned from discussion is because Munro purely doesn't want us to - which I'm fine with. He owns and runs the website and it's entirely his call and I will both abide by and enforce any rule he makes about it.

However, at this point, there are no clear-cut or well-known rules regarding the subject, and I would prefer that this no longer be the case.

Munro, this is addressed to you: Can we discuss drugs in any capacity? If anything, I feel like we should at least be able to speak about it from a political/moral standpoint (IE threads in Politics about it) but I can certainly understand stuff like the Psychedelic Experiences thread not being allowed (though I personally don't think there's anything particularly negative or wrong about it).

 

[Insano]

Yeah, what Ennui said

 

[Munro]

Well, it's one thing to maturely discuss the subject matter, comparing experiences, and discussing the morales behind the laws behind the substances.

To be honest I'm not really happy with any discussion of it but you can discuss the effects on society, moral standpoint etc. You can't compare experiences, offer/seek help in preparing drugs or promote their use. If you spent a day working with me you'll understand why I hate them

 

[Ennui]

That's fine, as long as you don't consider NOT demonizing them as a form of promoting their use.

 

[Vegeta897]

If you spent a day working with me you'll understand why I hate them

Heh what do you mean by this? Elaborate please, I'm interested.

Anyway, I support your standpoint. I hate drugs myself and threads like that one made me feel ill. It's not even just the legality of it. It's like the porn picture threads. Just not fitting for a more respectable community like hl2.net.

/hides before being attacked by ennui or someone else

 

[sinkoman]

That's fine, as long as you don't consider NOT demonizing them as a form of promoting their use.

And now it is time to wait for an epic post, from an epic administrator, on an epic fan FORUM!

John freeman who was gordun freemans brot...

 

[MorganFreeman911]

If you spent a day working with me you'll understand why I hate them

Heh what do you mean by this? Elaborate please, I'm interested.

Anyway, I support your standpoint. I hate drugs myself and threads like that one made me feel ill. It's not even just the legality of it. It's like the porn picture threads. Just not fitting for a more respectable community like hl2.net.

/hides before being attacked by ennui or someone else

Honed on some good points veg. I think that drugs are horrible, and even the legality of it makes me not want to do them. Not to mention the permanent side affects. Yes, they have side affects. Everything has a side affect.
EDIT: Also, I'd be interested in your story too, Munro.

 

[Asknoone]

Heh what do you mean by this? Elaborate please, I'm interested.

Munro is a security guard.

 

[Crispy]

To be honest I'm not really happy with any discussion of it but you can discuss the effects on society, moral standpoint etc. You can't compare experiences, offer/seek help in preparing drugs or promote their use. If you spent a day working with me you'll understand why I hate them

Personally I think the less information on drugs and their effects, the worse.

Glamorising drug use is understandably something that you'd want to see prohibited. But sensible discussion (from both sides) is a fairly important thing. If in the hands of the ignorant or the stupid or the easily led, drugs can be a potentially extremely damaging thing (I'm being deliberately general here - in my experience weed can be feasibly just as damaging to someone's lifestyle as class A drugs). But if treated with respect they can be used without harmful effect (albeit illegally in most countries depending on the drug in question). So why prohibit discussion? Ignorance only serves to worsen the situation.

I do agree it's a bit of a nightmare to moderate, though.

 

[Vegeta897]

Personally I think the less information on drugs and their effects, the worse.

Glamorising drug use is understandably something that you'd want to see prohibited. But sensible discussion (from both sides) is a fairly important thing. If in the hands of the ignorant or the stupid or the easily led, drugs can be a potentially extremely damaging thing (I'm being deliberately general here - in my experience weed can be feasibly just as damaging to someone's lifestyle as class A drugs). But if treated with respect they can be used without harmful effect (albeit illegally in most countries depending on the drug in question). So why prohibit discussion? Ignorance only serves to worsen the situation.

I do agree it's a bit of a nightmare to moderate, though.

I really don't think HL2.net would be the first place most people would look for tips on taking drugs responsibly...

If you want info on drugs there are plenty of other sites on the internet for that.

 

[Crispy]

If HL2.net is to only be a community for talking about Valve and Valve-affiliate games (yawn) then yes, this is true. But if HL2.net is supposed to be a community of real people who like to discuss real issues in the off-topic section then I think drugs forms a part of that.

 

[sinkoman]

Honed on some good points veg. I think that drugs are horrible, and even the legality of it makes me not want to do them. Not to mention the permanent side affects. Yes, they have side affects. Everything has a side affect.
EDIT: Also, I'd be interested in your story too, Munro.

I hate to say it, but you're just asking to start an argument.

Really, is saying "OMG DRUGS BAD DON"T DO THIS SHIT THEY KILLS YOU" the best sort of thing to be saying in a thread dedicated to whether or not we can speak of them in the first place?

Drugs are not some taboo piece of being that exist only to kill you. They're there, and they are neutral. They're neither bad, nor are they good, they just are.

It's like sex, it neither is bad, nor is it good. But we openly discuss it because it plays a large role in society, and influences us all.

I really don't think HL2.net would be the first place most people would look for tips on taking drugs responsibly...

If you want info on drugs there are plenty of other sites on the internet for that.

He's saying that no matter what, people will want to ask about them, and if you just them to shut up, then they don't actually gain any sort of knowledge on whether the subject matter is dangerous, and end up becoming curious.

Munro is a security guard.

I don't mean to be melodramatic, but really, if drug talk is banned, i'm probably just going to up and leave :\

 

[Ennui]

sinko, this is in no way worth leaving over... and Munro's reasonable, he already said we can discuss them within certain fair boundaries. At this point, this is just a moral discussion.

Honed on some good points veg. I think that drugs are horrible, and even the legality of it makes me not want to do them. Not to mention the permanent side affects. Yes, they have side affects. Everything has a side affect.
EDIT: Also, I'd be interested in your story too, Munro.

It's best to refrain from speaking if you have no idea what you're on about. I could tell you anything you want to know about any drug out of memory, because I'm fascinated enough by them to have been studying them - even scholastically - for several years. On that authority, I can say confidently that the semantic implications you're communicating are thoroughly inaccurate.

I really don't think HL2.net would be the first place most people would look for tips on taking drugs responsibly...

If you want info on drugs there are plenty of other sites on the internet for that.

Discussing drugs and drug use doesn't have to have the slightest thing to do with "tips on taking drugs responsibly". We're not opening an advice column that forumites can write into to get a response from one of the senior counselors about their drug-use related plights and inquiries.

If HL2.net is to only be a community for talking about Valve and Valve-affiliate games (yawn) then yes, this is true. But if HL2.net is supposed to be a community of real people who like to discuss real issues in the off-topic section then I think drugs forms a part of that.

Bada-bing.

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

Whew.

Sorry if I went a bit overboard in there.

"'I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, Sir,' said Alice, 'because I'm not myself you see.'"

 

[Vegeta897]

Discussing drugs and drug use doesn't have to have the slightest thing to do with "tips on taking drugs responsibly". We're not opening an advice column that forumites can write into to get a response from one of the senior counselors about their drug-use related plights and inquiries.

I was replying to Sinkoman... It sounded like what he was saying was that without HL2.net being able to talk about drugs, people might harm themselves by not being informed.

 

[Solaris]

I was replying to Sinkoman... It sounded like what he was saying was that without HL2.net being able to talk about drugs, people might harm themselves by not being informed.

Definitely, Munners, if somebody dies because of this, let it be on your conscience!

 

[losttheskyagain]

Sheesh, you guys are pushing it (especially with that brand new thread in the lounge). I'm all for free speech, but Munro's site is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship where he takes your opinions into consideration. At least let him reply before you open up new threads.

/End angry words.

 

[sinkoman]

I was replying to Sinkoman... It sounded like what he was saying was that without HL2.net being able to talk about drugs, people might harm themselves by not being informed.

Highly interpretive...

 

[Tr0n]

Marijuana is good for you my friends.

 

[No Limit]

I was going to make this point yesterday in the politics section but never got around to it. Obviously it should be okay to discuss the legallity of drugs and its effects. But a lot of people around here in these discussions actually seem to promote the use of these drugs which I don't think should be allowed. Believe it or not a lot of kids do read these boards and many of us don't want to see these kids encouraged to do said drugs. Many people here have children, younger siblings, nephews, and what not that are not too happy with the promotion of these drugs.

 

[Shodan]

If you spent a day working with me you'll understand why I hate them

Do you get a lot of Narcotics traffiking through Tescos?

 

[Asknoone]

Doesn't work there anymore.

 

[Ennui]

I sort of figured that when he referenced hating drugs due to his work, by my estimation Munro is a DEA agent now.

/me deletes account

 

[Vegeta897]

Doesn't work there anymore.

I think Shodan was making a joke

 

[Dinkleberry]

I was going to make this point yesterday in the politics section but never got around to it. Obviously it should be okay to discuss the legallity of drugs and its effects. But a lot of people around here in these discussions actually seem to promote the use of these drugs which I don't think should be allowed. Believe it or not a lot of kids do read these boards and many of us don't want to see these kids encouraged to do said drugs. Many people here have children, younger siblings, nephews, and what not that are not too happy with the promotion of these drugs.

Fair point, that.

 

[Solaris]

I disagree, no where has there been an irresponsible promotion of drugs. What we've seen are reasonable and informed discussions on their effects and consequences.

 

[Cormeh]

The "Psychedelic Experiences" thread certainly crossed the line a few times, Solaris. Discussion of what drugs do what, links to websites regarding substances etc.

Not that I mind personally, live and let live, plus I'm old enough to know about not jumping down peoples throats about things I know nothing of.

The "LEGAL Highs" thread was butchered by Tick, posting all of the self-righteous regurgitation we've all heard a million times. I do confess it's irresponsible of older people glamming up drugs and alcohol, I'm guilty myself, but I'd hope for some sense from other people that posted here in the first place, not to take everything they read as gospel.

 

[Ennui]

To be honest, I don't know if discussing drugs and drug use in a frank manner can be considered glamorization. There is a rather large group of members here with an interest in drugs, whether it's an experimental interest or not. For the most part when there's advice given or anything like that about ingesting drugs, it's based on safety and little else. In some cases, this is important, because if someone on here reads about DXM, which is the active ingredient in most cough syrups, and decides they want to trip off of it, it's very easy to make the simple mistake of getting the wrong kind. Some cough syrups have other ingredients (guaifenisen, acetomenophen, etc) that can cause anything between extreme discomfort and death if ingested in the quantities required for the DXM to have psychedelic effects.

Even if being frank and advising people on these sorts of things can sound like promotion of drug use (because it's acceptant of it), I still tend to prefer it to someone hurting themselves out of ignorance.

 

[Dinkleberry]

A bit off topic, but...

When I was in 6th form, I spent most of my time playing CSS and HL2DM (and browsing this forum :flame: ) rather than out getting pissed every weekend like most other people seemed to be doing. Back then the way I saw it was that binge drinking was Bad, and hated the culture associated with it. I was living in a small town and my friends were in a similar mindset. Thing is, we were a minority and when I went to uni on my own, I was lucky and got put in a house with really nice people. They all drank, so instead of associating getting pissed with one night stands, getting punched in the face, and getting people up the duff, it was all about the good times.

Extrapolate this across drug classes, and I think you've got the answer why different people see drugs in different lights. Again, when I was in 6th Form a lot of chavs were smoking weed down the park at lunch times - again it associates the drug as bad. Then you get into music you find out later was heavily influenced by smoking weed, and your opinions change.

Point of this post? Basically, be prepared for your opinions (and principles) to change as you move to new places in your life. In a way I feel like a sheep for bending my principles, but I'd probably be clinically depressed if I'd continued like I did.

 

[No Limit]

I disagree, no where has there been an irresponsible promotion of drugs. What we've seen are reasonable and informed discussions on their effects and consequences.

Well I'm not going to point any fingers or call any names but come on, lets be honest. You've never heard anyone say something to the effect of "drugs are just swell" or "I love getting high" in these discussions? That's like saying I love nikes. I would say its promoting drugs.

 

[Ennui]

I would say the only drug that's really been promoted is marijuana, which, given that it's relatively benign and also extremely popular, isn't really the worst thing in the world. It's not like there's anyone in the thread talking about how much they love cocaine. Plus, alcohol is definitely held in high esteem by a lot of the members here, and we don't hear outcries of "think of the children!"

 

[Tr0n]

Always use moderation.

 

[Tyguy]

I'm relieved we can finally talk about this in a mature and intelligent manner. From my experience, the majority of drug-related threads usually start out very respectfully. If you browse some of the recent drug topics you can see how one person acting like a troll can derail an entire discussion. I also agree that these discussions do a lot of good. The DXM point that Ennui mentioned is a perfect example. I knew of DXM before discussing it here and almost tried it a few times not knowing ANYTHING about the dangers.

Anyway, as long as we are not dedicating threads to doing hard drugs and teaching people how to make a bong out of a coat hanger and an easy bake oven I think these conversations are very appropriate.

 

[Qonfused]

Drug threads are fine, imo. I don't personally do/take drugs, but I feel that discussing them is fine. But again, it's Munro's forum, and I'm fine either way.