Earthlings

The video? Shocking propaganda, as usual. Nothing new or surprising. Like most, it gives an almost voyeuristic thrill to makers/viewers that at once entices and repulses. That's why so many of you watched it. Sickees.

So...

Animal testing? No. Of course not.

Eating meat? Yes. Of course.
 
VictimOfScience said:
The video? Shocking propaganda, as usual. Nothing new or surprising. Like most, it gives an almost voyeuristic thrill to makers/viewers that at once entices and repulses. That's why so many of you watched it. Sickees.

So...

Animal testing? No. Of course not.

Eating meat? Yes. Of course.
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damn you are STUPID!

most of us like meat, but the animals shouldn't be killed like that! Idiots view the movie as some propaganda, real people at least try to condem such abuse. It's about Nacizm...

you condem nacizm, right?


edit: WTF is not wrong about beating the shit out of an circus animal? It is not about politics, it's about decency! animals kill other animals, but humans kill animals just for laughs.

of course there is noting much one can do, but wtf is with people that see nothing wrong in it? who the **** likes to live in a freaking cage all his life...see "you" are the people that makes other people hate humanity.
 
I'm pretty sure nazism is quite specific and that it's fascism bolstered with random hate of minorities/deviants. It isn't really a coherent ideology or anything...

...and I don't see what it has to do with animals, really.
 
I'm against needless cruelty, but do see the need for meatstuffs.

I don't think i'm going to watch this video, cause from what people describe its probably gonna swirl around unpleasantly in my mind for weeks
 
ok...call it whatever you want, you know what i mean. but yes nacizm is worse because it was caused to humans and without a real purpose.

the dead animals at least are made for food, but still...the animal at least deserves a quick death. not squished, beat up, mangled, electrocuted, skinned alive, run over, fed poisons, hacked, burnt,... and like that isn't enough, even yelled at like "mother****er" and stuff....those people are like personificating them...jesus

it's like nacizm junior...and it's totaly legal most of the time!
 
jverne said:
ok...call it whatever you want, you know what i mean. but yes nacizm is worse because it was caused to humans and without a real purpose.

the dead animals at least are made for food, but still...the animal at least deserves a quick death. not squished, beat up, mangled, electrocuted, skinned alive, run over, fed poisons, hacked, burnt,... and like that isn't enough, even yelled at like "mother****er" and stuff....those people are like personificating them...jesus

it's like nacizm junior...and it's totaly legal most of the time!
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Meat tastes better if it was killed creatively.
 
smwScott said:
Meat tastes better if it was killed creatively.
Click to expand...


i'll mention it to the lion that is about to eat you soon.


edit: idiot!
 
jverne said:
ok...call it whatever you want, you know what i mean. but yes nacizm is worse because it was caused to humans and without a real purpose.

the dead animals at least are made for food, but still...the animal at least deserves a quick death. not squished, beat up, mangled, electrocuted, skinned alive, run over, fed poisons, hacked, burnt,... and like that isn't enough, even yelled at like "mother****er" and stuff....those people are like personificating them...jesus

it's like nacizm junior...and it's totaly legal most of the time!
Click to expand...
Look, I understand you're upset by all of this, but showing your average joe a video like this and calling them stupid is not the best way to get them to change their behavior.
 
VictimOfScience said:
Look, I understand you're upset by all of this, but showing your average joe a video like this and calling them stupid is not the best way to get them to change their behavior.
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upset...no, not really, more disgusted than upset.

so please do tell me what is a better method? to skin them alive?
 
jverne said:
upset...no, not really, more disgusted than upset.

so please do tell me what is a better method? to skin them alive?
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Wow. You sound just as bad as the people you profess to despise. Wake up and smell yourself! You reek of hypocrisy!

Maybe try doing something productive instead of ranting and raving on the internet--for all of our sakes and the sakes of the little animals! :imu: :imu: :imu:
 
To perhaps eloquently state a rationale against this behavior instead of using appeals to emotion.
 
Guys I was just reading in a scientific journal about new discoveries made by scientists which will most undoubtedly eventually lead to the end of vegetarianism for moral reasons, as well as the slaughtering of animals.

We now have the ability to grow real meat synthetically out of a few cells. A coffiemachine-like device can now be fed a packet containing a few cells from a cow along with a nutritious gel, and it will place the cells onto a biodegradable scaffold where they will grow and multiply into a fully formed and real piece of beef, pork, poultry or fish.

ideally you could also do this in factories, and create exact copies of steaks or bacon and then sell them to supermarkets. Trials are already under way, and within the next decade we shoudl be seing "meat farms" which grow meat in a sort of orchard, and then distribute it to suppliers.

Of course problems arise from this because somehow people think its more "gross" to eat synthetically grown meat than to eat a part of a slaughtered animal, even though the synthetic meat will be free of ecoli, mad cow disease, and fat.
 
VictimOfScience said:
Wow. You sound just as bad as the people you profess to despise. Wake up and smell yourself! You reek of hypocrisy!

Maybe try doing something productive instead of ranting and raving on the internet--for all of our sakes and the sakes of the little animals! :imu: :imu: :imu:
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the skinning part was sarcasm if you didn't notice it yet! showing people such videos might make them think? what happened to the "seeing is beliving" thing?

and yes i'm doing my part, i spread this video around on other forums!

edit:
Ludah said:
To perhaps eloquently state a rationale against this behavior instead of using appeals to emotion.
Click to expand...

the less pain the better! don't you agree?
 
theotherguy said:
ideally you could also do this in factories, and create exact copies of steaks or bacon and then sell them to supermarkets. Trials are already under way, and within the next decade we shoudl be seing "meat farms" which grow meat in a sort of orchard, and then distribute it to suppliers.
Click to expand...
Well, that was always going to be the future, wasnit? Specially grown meat. :p

problem solved, lol!
 
I saw this video a little while ago. For all intents and purposes, I'm now a Vegan. Basically, I dont have a fundamental objection to the idea of eating animals, but I do object to the type of cruelty seen in the video. So, I will only ever eat meat or use animal products if I can be sure that the animal lived a fairly comfortable life. So basically, I go out to the nearest farm shop and buy from there.
 
jverne said:
the skinning part was sarcasm if you didn't notice it yet!
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No I hadn't noticed. The rest of your posts were so full of piss and vinegar that I deducted that you were just another animal rights activist willing to do whatever it takes to get people to think your way, even if that means paint-throwing and fire-bombing and monkey-wrenching and tree-spiking and vivisectionist-slaughtering and yes, skinning meat-eaters alive, etc etc etc.

jverne said:
showing people such videos might make them think? what happened to the "seeing is beliving" thing?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's a super philosphy to have on the internet. :rolling:

jverne said:
and yes i'm doing my part, i spread this video around on other forums!
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Awesome! Now other people can be mentally screwed-up by watching your one-sided propaganda videos. Please, don't be fair in any other part of your life either, ok? I would hate to think of you as sane....
 
VictimOfScience said:
No I hadn't noticed. The rest of your posts were so full of piss and vinegar that I deducted that you were just another animal rights activist willing to do whatever it takes to get people to think your way, even if that means paint-throwing and fire-bombing and monkey-wrenching and tree-spiking and vivisectionist-slaughtering and yes, skinning meat-eaters alive, etc etc etc.


Yes, that's a super philosphy to have on the internet. :rolling:


Awesome! Now other people can be mentally screwed-up by watching your one-sided propaganda videos. Please, don't be fair in any other part of your life either, ok? I would hate to think of you as sane....
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hmm...i though that question mark at the end would do. so when is an intention made using a question mark? anyway...

what the hell are you talking about, does it really matter where it is TV, paper, phone,...it is real and it is happening, this is the best evidence someone can get...video!

have you watch it? one-sided? you are kidding right? how many sides there are in (mostly) meaningles mass killings and abuse?
please, please tell me.

dude...you are the not sane. and besides what did you do constructive besides making unargumented accusations?

like i said...only idiots take this video as propaganda.
 
jverne, chill, man.

With whom u're arguing...?

Read the guy's name - "VictimOfscience".

All those alien( read CIA, US govt, of course :) abductions and mind control stuff and experimental medical thingies...
 
prannock said:
jverne, chill, man.

With whom u're arguing...?

Read the guy's name - "VictimOfscience".

All those alien( read CIA, US govt, of course :) abductions and mind control stuff and experimental medical thingies...
Click to expand...


i'm cool, i'm cool...its just that some people...ehh...nevermind
 
You know, this fun movie is really being far more exploitative of the deaths just by using them to scare the timid into supporting a fundamentally unsound, but desirably religious doctrine.

It's a big-budget version of telling a four-year-old that his spaghetti is made of worms.

Although abuse sucks, it's the exception to the rule.
Joaquin Phoenix here is taking footage of that abuse and using it to scare you into eating like him and wearing what he does.

This is not a logical argument. They're just (metaphorically) feeding you with blood, meat and terror.

How about I show you a two-hour film of the world's goriest car crash victims, then demand that cars be outlawed.
Nonsensical? You bet!
But it's the exact same rhetoric here.

Speaking of images that'll gross you out:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Grrrcover2001.jpg
That's Joaquin Phoenix on the cover of GRRR! Magazine. PETA's magazine for kids.
PETA specifically targets children, which is something I'm always suspicious of when a group claims to be the arbiter of human morality.
If you make so much rational sense, why do you target the young and/or stupid?

Looks like my analogy of telling a 4-year-old that his food is made of worms was accurate.
Actually, check the main headline of the magazine:

"MORE GROSS FAST-FOOD FACTS"

This scary warning is accompanied with a cartoon of a worm on a burger.

Boo.
 
jverne said:
this is the best evidence someone can get...video!
Click to expand...
An authentic video of events is evidence of the following things:
1) Such events happen.
2) ...

I have not watched the video, nor do I plan to, because I am already aware of the one thing that the video could possibly show me. Your implication seems to be that all meat is made from brutally mistreated animals, and conversely, that all animals made into meat are brutally mistreated. You have no evidence of this.

Therefore, I question your premises and continue to gleefully eat my meat. I will handle the isolated cases of extreme animal abuse when I can; at this point, there is little I can do.

Yes, okay, Mechagodzilla beat me and even did a better job than I did. Poo.
 
I gotta stop doing that. :p

But your point does make it much more clear that basing a worldview off of purely anecdotal evidence is plain stupid.


Also, I'd just like to point out that my fine leather jacket is stylish and extremely comfortable.
 
jverne said:
ehh...nevermind
Click to expand...
Good. Now I can get back to my roast beef sandwich without the worry of choking on all of the rhetoric you have been shoving down my throat. :cheers:
 
Raeven0 said:
An authentic video of events is evidence of the following things:
1) Such events happen.
2) ...

I have not watched the video, nor do I plan to, because I am already aware of the one thing that the video could possibly show me. Your implication seems to be that all meat is made from brutally mistreated animals, and conversely, that all animals made into meat are brutally mistreated. You have no evidence of this.

Therefore, I question your premises and continue to gleefully eat my meat. I will handle the isolated cases of extreme animal abuse when I can; at this point, there is little I can do.

Yes, okay, Mechagodzilla beat me and even did a better job than I did. Poo.
Click to expand...


No not once did i say all meat is produced like this. not once. nor did i said one should stop eating meat. yes do more research on what you eat, and report any abuse you see. that should be a better course of action than ignoring altogether.


Mechagodzilla said:
You know, this fun movie is really being far more exploitative of the deaths just by using them to scare the timid into supporting a fundamentally unsound, but desirably religious doctrine.

It's a big-budget version of telling a four-year-old that his spaghetti is made of worms.

Although abuse sucks, it's the exception to the rule.
Joaquin Phoenix here is taking footage of that abuse and using it to scare you into eating like him and wearing what he does.

This is not a logical argument. They're just (metaphorically) feeding you with blood, meat and terror.

How about I show you a two-hour film of the world's goriest car crash victims, then demand that cars be outlawed.
Nonsensical? You bet!
But it's the exact same rhetoric here.

Speaking of images that'll gross you out:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/41/Grrrcover2001.jpg
That's Joaquin Phoenix on the cover of GRRR! Magazine. PETA's magazine for kids.
PETA specifically targets children, which is something I'm always suspicious of when a group claims to be the arbiter of human morality.
If you make so much rational sense, why do you target the young and/or stupid?

Looks like my analogy of telling a 4-year-old that his food is made of worms was accurate.
Actually, check the main headline of the magazine:

"MORE GROSS FAST-FOOD FACTS"

This scary warning is accompanied with a cartoon of a worm on a burger.

Boo.
Click to expand...

like always, you manipulate and dodge facts to serve your point...

...this isn't a movie review...we are talking animal abuse and exploitation. what if i edit the movie so there is no music, no comments and change it's name to "torvidclip001.mpg", would you still think this is propaganda...like i said only idiots will. I never paid attention to the narator or music, the graphics are enough.

the car theory you posted doesn't even compare to it, cars don't feel or live. the people driving them have the power to prevent accidents (not to drive). accidents are accidents. but in this case one living being is tortouring another helples living being. you don't often see people tie down other people and drive over them on a mass scale for fun or profit, do you?


and we are also not talking about PETA, it doesn't matter what are the directors or narators background...we are talking about animal abuse and how should it be condemt and prevented.

so back to the drawing board Mecha, because your whole post doesn't contain anything relevant.


edit: who said anything about owtlawing meat?

...keep dodging...keep dodging...



edit#2: so when did phoenix said we should eat like him?
you say this is a fear inducing movie...i'm not scared, i still eat meat,.....whose forcing who their opinion?
 
jverne said:
like always, you manipulate and dodge facts to serve your point...
Click to expand...
Oh, really?

Show me a single "manipulated or dodged" fact please.

I never paid attention to the narator or music, the graphics are enough.
Click to expand...
Good for you, but out-of-context graphics edited together to promote a political agenda are not enough to make a rational point.


the car theory you posted doesn't even compare to it, cars don't feel or live. the people driving them have the power to prevent accidents (not to drive). accidents are accidents.
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Exactly! Cars should be banned, for great justice.

I didn't even need to show any selectively edited video footage.

People also have the identical power to prevent animal abuse (not to abuse animals).
So, under your own analogy, eating meat is equally awesome as driving a hybrid-electric vehicle to the soy store.

and we are also not talking about PETA, it doesn't matter what are the directors or narators background...we are talking about animal abuse and how should it be condemt and prevented.
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No, that would imply a concensus.
What we are talking about is whether the tactic of showing selectively edited abuse footage can be used as a valid logical argument.

The correct answer is that it can't, as it's Anecdotal Evidence that makes an Emotional Appeal towards Wisdom in Repugnace. (Those are, yes, logical fallacies by the way)

so back to the drawing board Mecha, because your whole post doesn't contain anything relevant.
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I thought I was dodging and manipulating facts though?

What you've presented here are four logical fallacies and a big 'ol dodge on the fact that JP is almost literally a PETA posterboy using identical tactics to support the same agenda, which involves enforced vegetarianism and "the liberation of all animals".

Also, he's selling the DVD on the PETA's website.

Boo!
 
Ludah said:
I'm really curious as to what this "nacizm" is.
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I think it must have something to do with torturing defensless bunnies and kittens. :cat:



Speciesism. :LOL: Hahahahaha! That is the most hilarious concept ever.




Wow. This video is awful. I just watched like 10 minutes of people basically just ignoring animal cruelty laws. Some guys just put a dog in a trash compactor. How does this have anything to do with anything, besides the fact that some people are assholes?
 
Speciesism doesn't work because animals are simply incapable of following human laws.

So, unless every animal on earth were strictly trained (something PETA would never stand for) animals are quantifiably less free by default.
 
I haven't read the rest of the thread... But damn, some people are damn cruel. I've always known this kind of stuff has gone on and that people did these things, but seeing it... it's just hard to believe they could do that to animals. I watched the bit about pets and entertainment. Couldn't watch the part about food, with me being squeemish and all that.

:(
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Speciesism doesn't work because animals are simply incapable of following human laws.

So, unless every animal on earth were strictly trained (something PETA would never stand for) animals are quantifiably less free by default.
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Pff, not only animals are classified into species. What about plants and fungi and bacteria and stuff? :p
 
lol, that's why its impossible not to be speciesist, unless you love those microbes that invade our bodies and refuse treatment because it might kill the buggers. Plus, all of our energy has to come from plants, plants are species too.

So basically peta members are just multicellularanimalists, scratch that make that visible-multicellular-animal-with-a-nervous-systemists, and everyone else is just a humanist :D
 
Mechagodzilla said:
Oh, really?

Show me a single "manipulated or dodged" fact please.

Good for you, but out-of-context graphics edited together to promote a political agenda are not enough to make a rational point.


Exactly! Cars should be banned, for great justice.

I didn't even need to show any selectively edited video footage.

People also have the identical power to prevent animal abuse (not to abuse animals).
So, under your own analogy, eating meat is equally awesome as driving a hybrid-electric vehicle to the soy store.

No, that would imply a concensus.
What we are talking about is whether the tactic of showing selectively edited abuse footage can be used as a valid logical argument.

The correct answer is that it can't, as it's Anecdotal Evidence that makes an Emotional Appeal towards Wisdom in Repugnace. (Those are, yes, logical fallacies by the way)



I thought I was dodging and manipulating facts though?

What you've presented here are four logical fallacies and a big 'ol dodge on the fact that JP is almost literally a PETA posterboy using identical tactics to support the same agenda, which involves enforced vegetarianism and "the liberation of all animals".

Also, he's selling the DVD on the PETA's website.

Boo!
Click to expand...


1. animals are being tourtured an killed in excessively
-you jumped onto politic and accusing the graphics as propaganda
-i do not see it as propaganda because i have my own opinion and i did not take this as propaganda because i have no intentions to join PETA
-you are the one claming that it's propaganda (you extremist)

2. -why can't this be just called random animal tourture video clips?
- but for you it's propaganda

3. -yes eating meat is good but at what cost?
- just like hybrid cars are a fraud, because you need more energy to pruduce one than it actually saves
-so yes, hybrid cars are by this standards not justified jus as it's not justified to kill animals in such ways

4. -so avoiding pain is not rational or logical in real life situations (because i do agree that pain is nothing from a material POV, but we are talking about real life)?
-if it is why then couldn't it be used as an argument?
-so you're basicaly saying that everything less developed than humans has no right to feel emotions and thus is allowed to be killed without "dignity"?

5. -no you see, i'm not a member of PETA and never will be so stop being so extremist and try to understand what i'm saying!

animals shouldn't be treated this way. i'm not saying it's not right to kill them, but if you do make it as less painfull as posible.

i don't care if he is selling DVD's. point is that what it shows is real. you cannot deny that!


and mecha please stop secretly implying that i'm a vegetarian, nope i'm not. i'm a quite happy carnivore.
 
jverne said:
and mecha please stop secretly implying that i'm a vegetarian, nope i'm not. i'm a quite happy carnivore.
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Yeah, us carnivores know that it is immoral to eat vegtables and things that are not meat! :cheese:
 
Jverne, your personal interpretation of selected elements isn't relevant to what the video as a whole actually is.

It's nice that you don't like animal abuse. I agree.
But the video itself is specifically designed to exploit people for political gain.

You can't just show a bunch of videoclips without context as a rational arguement.
If the video is meant to be only "here are animals dying look at them: the movie" I'd call that some kind of animal death porn.

If you are specifically presented a bunch of such clips in no logical order, that means:
A) There is an invalid proto-religious message.
or
B) This is supposed to be entertainment.

The cost of eating meat is mainly the lives of cows, fish and chicken. The benefits are that far more humans are able to be fed than would be otherwise possible.

The animals are killed efficiently by design. Companies want the food fast. There is no gain in suffering.
As I said, the abuses you dislike are the sad minority of cases.

I'm not talking about you though, and I don't care what your eat. I'm talking about the video, and the video is shameless and exploitative.

i don't care if he is selling DVD's. point is that what it shows is real. you cannot deny that!
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No, it isn't real.
Reality isn't edited into a two-hour film and broadcast with a message. Context and intent influence every media presentation. Media is never created in a vacuum.

In this case, all context has been trimmed except clips of the most extreme cases that could be found.
The intent is to scare people into over-reacting to a pseudo-crisis manufactured by those clips.
 
The slaughter practices in this video are beyond inhumane.

This is a problem that needs to be resolved.

It exists. It needs to not exist.
 
The problem with making a video like that is, if you want to be completely honest about it, you'd have maybe 10 minutes of horrific footage, and 2 hours of cattle sitting around and mooing. As Mecha has said, it's taking only the most horrendous stuff, and splicing it together to shock people into supporting a cause. It is indeed propaganda :/
 
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